So you are saying that they do good in busting big crimes but that they also whine about almost everything, am I correct? So do you think in general they have contributed positively or negatively to society and animal welfare?
PETA & The HSUS
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Will somebody please close this thread? I realized I've wasted too much of my life on it and its about the same handful of people standing by the same opinions we had before the debate even began... heh
DoctorCosmonaut said:
I'm saying that they do well in shedding light on illegal and immoral activities. I never made a statement that they "whine" or complain in any way about anyone. When more people know the horrors of what animals suffer and they see it, it brings people together. That is their positive attribute. I think of them as a news channel in a sense that broadcasts to the general public what they may not want to see but they should. They are negative in ways as well. I believe that they should use their funds and media resources to find loving homes for the animals. I am aware of their agenda, they want animals to be liberated. They don't want animals living in homes they want them all free. I believe that domesticated animals enjoy human companionship, for instance if I get up right now my cat would be quite displeased with me. I know that Ringling Bros. treats their animals with immense love and respect as I am at the arena all 8 hours of my shift when they are in town. I know that I enjoy fishing and that fish is healthy for me. While it may be seen as cruel to some it is a way of life for others.
Again, I have no intention of changing anyone's beliefs. I'm only participating in the discussion.
Sorry I didn't mean to be putting words in your mouth. I wasn't trying to pin you to anything either, I was earnestly curious because I couldn't decipher your overall attitude from your first post. Thanks for explaining. 
As I metioned towards the beginning, banning private ownership of animals is indeed on their agenda albeit buried beneath a mound of sugar coating. It is up to the responsible keeper/breeder to do their homework to fully understand exactly what it is they are contributing their money too. If they are not interested in learning the truth then no amount of debating will open their eyes.
I am glad someone who has first knowledge of PETA's goals has stepped forth to confirm this since it seems my warnings have fell on deaf ears. I can only assume it is because of my low post count. While I may be new to this site I am certainly not new to keeping and breeding Chelonia and am quite familiar with the groups who threaten to take that priviledge away from me.
I am glad someone who has first knowledge of PETA's goals has stepped forth to confirm this since it seems my warnings have fell on deaf ears. I can only assume it is because of my low post count. While I may be new to this site I am certainly not new to keeping and breeding Chelonia and am quite familiar with the groups who threaten to take that priviledge away from me.
K412 said:
You do know you can unsub from the thread.
This has to be one of the most civil exchanges of one of the most explosive/controversial topics I've ever seen.
It just hit me... it's all about perspective... that's obvious.
I wonder if the majority of these people have pets? Do they actually connect with the animals?
This is actually a double edged sword... if they have pets they are hypocrites... if they don't... how do they know what the animal feels or how it is treated????
To bring this back to the chelonian world there are private groups which are working in this direction... eliminating the keeping of chelonians as pets.
This has to be one of the most civil exchanges of one of the most explosive/controversial topics I've ever seen.
DoctorCosmonaut said:
It just hit me... it's all about perspective... that's obvious.
I wonder if the majority of these people have pets? Do they actually connect with the animals?
This is actually a double edged sword... if they have pets they are hypocrites... if they don't... how do they know what the animal feels or how it is treated????
To bring this back to the chelonian world there are private groups which are working in this direction... eliminating the keeping of chelonians as pets.
Luvthemtorts said:
One more time:
There are good and bad in every organization. I've posted this so many times....also....every town, city, state, etc...is different and is run by different officals. I have only encounted any one from PETA once in my town, and it was a positive encounter. I do NOT agree with all their policies.....I don't even know all their policies. I 'm just saying that they have accomplished some good things. I am sure they do lots of bad things too. So do most polititions.
The following are some of PETA’s major accomplishments:
•PETA first uncovered the abuse of animals in experiments in 1981 and launched the precedent-setting “Silver Spring monkeys†case. This resulted in the first arrest and criminal conviction of an animal experimenter in the United States on charges of cruelty to animals, the first confiscation of abused laboratory animals, and the first U.S. Supreme Court victory for animals in laboratories.
•PETA released 70 hours of graphic video footage that documented the appalling treatment of primates at the University of Pennsylvania head-injury laboratory, resulting in government fines and the loss of funding for the cruel study.
•PETA’s undercover investigation of a huge contract testing laboratory in Philadelphia and our subsequent campaign led to Benetton’s permanent ban on animal testsâ€â€a first for a major cosmetics company. Other leading companies, such as Avon, Revlon, and Estée Lauder, followed suit. Gillette announced a moratorium on animal tests after PETA’s 10-year campaign. PETA now lists hundreds of companies that do not test products on animals. Please visit CaringConsumer.com for details.
•After negotiations with PETA, juice-makers POM, Welch’s, and Ocean Spray agreed to stop funding animal experiments.
•PETA was victorious over the General Motors Corporation, which ended its use of animals in crash tests.
•PETA released investigators’ photographs and videotaped footage taken inside Carolina Biological Supply Company, the nation’s largest biological supply house. PETA documented that animals were removed from gas chambers and injected with formaldehyde without being checked for vital signs, as well as cats’ and rats’ struggling during embalming and employees’ spitting on animals. The company was charged by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) with violations of the federal Animal Welfare Act (AWA).
•With the help of celebrities like Ewan McGregor and Martin Sheen; U.S., German, and Canadian government officials; and activists worldwide, PETA was able to secure the release of polar bears who had been suffering for years in the Suarez Bros. Circus. The bears are now recovering and thriving in more appropriate climates.
•PETA distributed an undercover videotape that showed Las Vegas casino “entertainer†Bobby Berosini beating orangutans with a metal rod. The U.S. Department of the Interior revoked Berosini’s captive-bred-wildlife permit, making it illegal for Berosini to buy or sell orangutans.
•An undercover investigation of painful scabies experiments on dogs and rabbits at Ohio’s Wright State University led to charges by the USDA of 18 violations of the AWA. The experiments were stopped.
•After being pressured by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine and PETA, the American College of Surgeons replaced animals with simulations at its training conferences and is now urging medical schools to adopt non-animal training alternatives.
•PETA released undercover photographs and videotapes that showed ducks’ being violently force-fed on a foie gras farm in New York, resulting in the first-ever police raid on a U.S. factory farm. After learning the gory details of foie gras production, many airlines and restaurants dropped the so-called “delicacy†from their menus.
•Undercover investigations at pig-breeding factory farms in North Carolina and Oklahoma revealed horrific conditions and daily abuse of pigs, including the fact that one pig was skinned alive, leading to the first-ever felony indictments of farm workers.
•In another precedent-setting case, a California furrier was charged with cruelty to animals after a PETA investigator filmed him electrocuting chinchillas by clipping wires to the animals’ genitals. The American Veterinary Medical Association denounced the killing method, saying that it causes animals to experience the pain of a heart attack while they are still conscious. In another undercover exposé, PETA videotaped a fur rancher’s causing minks to die in agony by injecting them with weed-killer. Both farms agreed to stop these cruel killing methods.
•After exposing the National Air and Space Administration’s Bion experiment, in which straitjacketed monkeys were to be implanted with electrodes and then launched into space, PETA succeeded in pressuring the U.S. to pull out of the project.
•PETA’s undercover investigation of a Florida exotic-animal “training school†revealed that big cats were being beaten with ax handles, which encouraged the USDA to develop new regulations governing animal training methods.
•PETA’s undercover investigation of Boys Town National Research Hospital’s experiments, in which researchers cut into kittens’ heads and starved cats in order to study deafness, spurred the National Institutes of Health to issue a report condemning Boys Town’s animal care and use program. The USDA found that Boys Town had failed to comply with the AWA.
•PETA convinced Mobil, Texaco, Pennzoil, Shell, and other oil companies to cover their exhaust stacks after showing how millions of birds and bats had become trapped in the shafts and were burned to death.
•After two years of negotiations and more than 400 demonstrations worldwide, McDonald’s became the first fast-food chain to agree to make basic welfare improvements for farmed animals. Burger King and Wendy’s followed suit within a year’s time, and within two years, Safeway, Kroger, and Albertson’s had also agreed to adopt stricter guidelines in order to improve the lives of billions of animals slaughtered for food.
•Thanks to PETA’s long campaign to push PETCO to take more responsibility for the animals in its care, the company agreed to stop selling large birds in all its stores and to make provisions for the millions of rats and mice in its care.
Other Projects
Since its inception in 2001, PETA’s mobile clinic, SNIP (Spay and Neuter Immediately, Please), has sterilized tens of thousands of dogs and cats at a reduced cost in the Hampton Roads, Virginia, area, preventing the births of tens of thousands of unwanted animals.
PETA has also participated in the production of three animal rights albums (Liberation: Songs to Benefit PETA, Tame Yourself, and Animal Liberation) featuring artists such as Chrissie Hynde, Howard Jones, Indigo Girls, Michael Stipe, Belinda Carlisle, and Good Charlotte. PETA has also held several “Rock Against Fur†and “Fur Is a Drag†benefit concerts featuring The B-52s, k.d. lang, and other prominent performers. Long-time supporter Sir Paul McCartney invited PETA to set up literature tables on his world tour.
Through its Fur Is Dead campaign, PETA has exposed the cruelty of the fur industry and convinced retailers like J.Crew, Wet Seal, Forever 21, and Ann Taylor to stop selling fur in their storesâ€â€and top designers such as Ralph Lauren, Marc Bouwer, and Stella McCartney have banned the use of fur in their designs. American Idol judge Simon Cowell and Oscar-winner Charlize Theron both appeared with dogs in our “If you wouldn’t wear your dog, please don’t wear any fur†ads, and Pamela Anderson, Christy Turlington, and Kim Basinger have all posed au naturel for PETA’s “I’d Rather Go Naked Than Wear Fur†ads. Martha Stewart stopped wearing fur after seeing PETA’s anti-fur videos and even hosted one of her own, exposing the horrors of the industry. Nine Inch Nails lead singer Trent Reznor narrated a video for PETA about the gruesome dog and cat fur trade in China.
PETA convinced 40 companies, including Adidas-Salamon, Gap Inc., Eddie Bauer, Nike, and Reebok, to refuse to use Indian leather in their products after our investigation of the Indian leather industry revealed horrific abuses that take place during the illegal transport of cows to slaughter. “We found the treatment of animals, as documented by PETA, to be totally unacceptable and not in keeping with the image or standards of our company,†said the CEO of Florsheim.(2)
“Meet Your Meat,†a video produced by PETA and narrated by Alec Baldwin, is a powerful look at each stage of life of animals raised for food. It was distributed to every member of Congress along with a letter from Baldwin that encouraged them to “protect animals from the array of abuses that are standard in the farmed-animal industry.â€Â(3)
Additionally, PETA staff members speak to students, from those in elementary school to those at the university level. In just one year, PETA distributed information packs to every elementary school in the U.S., reaching millions of young people. PETA and actor Alicia Silverstone launched a national “Cut Out Dissection†campaign, educating students about their right not to dissect. The peta2 Street Team’s young activists spread the “do unto others†message in their communities, and our peta2.com Web siteâ€â€the primary communication tool of PETA’s Youth Divisionâ€â€receives more than 375,000 visits per month.
In addition to our flagship site, PETA.org, PETA has dozens of other Web sites, including CowsAreCool.com, FurIsDead.com, and GoVeg.com. We welcome more than 32 million visitors to our Web sites every year.
PETA’s president, Ingrid Newkirk, has written Making Kind Choices, a book that shows how simple, everyday decisions can help animals. She has also penned a how-to book for animal rights activists, You Can Save the Animals!, and a children’s version, Kids Can Save the Animals!, as well as Free the Animals, which details the history of animal liberation in the United States, and the first animal rights cat-care book, 250 Ways to Make Your Cat Adore You. PETA has produced three cookbooks, The Compassionate Cook, published by Warner Bros.; Cooking With PETA, published by the Book Publishing Company; and The PETA Celebrity Cookbook, published by Lantern Books.
also...please don't tell me that Ringling Brothers treat there elephants well....this....and all elephants belong in the wild...not in a ring for our children's entertainment. As far as I see it, they don't advocate domestic dogs and cats to let out into the wild (I have never seen that)....they do not believe that wild animals should be put in cages.
http://www.ringlingbeatsanimals.com/bound-babies.asp If you can look at these pictures and then say that they treat their elephants well, there has to be something wrong. Look at what you said....they walk their elephants.....etc. Elephants don't belong in a ring of any kind with someone sticking a pointy object in their hide. When I looked at these pictures I cried. These babies belong with their mother not being tortured.
As for their radical agenda.....it is wrong ....against the law....etc. Fine.
There are lots of things that PETA does wrong, and that I don't agree with, the same as any other organization.
Please look at these pictures and tell me if they are fabricated? This is what they are trying to stop. In this day that we live in, IMHO, I have found that it is so hard to be 100% for anything. I support a lot of causes, but very few organizations 100%. PETA is only one of them.
There are good and bad in every organization. I've posted this so many times....also....every town, city, state, etc...is different and is run by different officals. I have only encounted any one from PETA once in my town, and it was a positive encounter. I do NOT agree with all their policies.....I don't even know all their policies. I 'm just saying that they have accomplished some good things. I am sure they do lots of bad things too. So do most polititions.
The following are some of PETA’s major accomplishments:
•PETA first uncovered the abuse of animals in experiments in 1981 and launched the precedent-setting “Silver Spring monkeys†case. This resulted in the first arrest and criminal conviction of an animal experimenter in the United States on charges of cruelty to animals, the first confiscation of abused laboratory animals, and the first U.S. Supreme Court victory for animals in laboratories.
•PETA released 70 hours of graphic video footage that documented the appalling treatment of primates at the University of Pennsylvania head-injury laboratory, resulting in government fines and the loss of funding for the cruel study.
•PETA’s undercover investigation of a huge contract testing laboratory in Philadelphia and our subsequent campaign led to Benetton’s permanent ban on animal testsâ€â€a first for a major cosmetics company. Other leading companies, such as Avon, Revlon, and Estée Lauder, followed suit. Gillette announced a moratorium on animal tests after PETA’s 10-year campaign. PETA now lists hundreds of companies that do not test products on animals. Please visit CaringConsumer.com for details.
•After negotiations with PETA, juice-makers POM, Welch’s, and Ocean Spray agreed to stop funding animal experiments.
•PETA was victorious over the General Motors Corporation, which ended its use of animals in crash tests.
•PETA released investigators’ photographs and videotaped footage taken inside Carolina Biological Supply Company, the nation’s largest biological supply house. PETA documented that animals were removed from gas chambers and injected with formaldehyde without being checked for vital signs, as well as cats’ and rats’ struggling during embalming and employees’ spitting on animals. The company was charged by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) with violations of the federal Animal Welfare Act (AWA).
•With the help of celebrities like Ewan McGregor and Martin Sheen; U.S., German, and Canadian government officials; and activists worldwide, PETA was able to secure the release of polar bears who had been suffering for years in the Suarez Bros. Circus. The bears are now recovering and thriving in more appropriate climates.
•PETA distributed an undercover videotape that showed Las Vegas casino “entertainer†Bobby Berosini beating orangutans with a metal rod. The U.S. Department of the Interior revoked Berosini’s captive-bred-wildlife permit, making it illegal for Berosini to buy or sell orangutans.
•An undercover investigation of painful scabies experiments on dogs and rabbits at Ohio’s Wright State University led to charges by the USDA of 18 violations of the AWA. The experiments were stopped.
•After being pressured by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine and PETA, the American College of Surgeons replaced animals with simulations at its training conferences and is now urging medical schools to adopt non-animal training alternatives.
•PETA released undercover photographs and videotapes that showed ducks’ being violently force-fed on a foie gras farm in New York, resulting in the first-ever police raid on a U.S. factory farm. After learning the gory details of foie gras production, many airlines and restaurants dropped the so-called “delicacy†from their menus.
•Undercover investigations at pig-breeding factory farms in North Carolina and Oklahoma revealed horrific conditions and daily abuse of pigs, including the fact that one pig was skinned alive, leading to the first-ever felony indictments of farm workers.
•In another precedent-setting case, a California furrier was charged with cruelty to animals after a PETA investigator filmed him electrocuting chinchillas by clipping wires to the animals’ genitals. The American Veterinary Medical Association denounced the killing method, saying that it causes animals to experience the pain of a heart attack while they are still conscious. In another undercover exposé, PETA videotaped a fur rancher’s causing minks to die in agony by injecting them with weed-killer. Both farms agreed to stop these cruel killing methods.
•After exposing the National Air and Space Administration’s Bion experiment, in which straitjacketed monkeys were to be implanted with electrodes and then launched into space, PETA succeeded in pressuring the U.S. to pull out of the project.
•PETA’s undercover investigation of a Florida exotic-animal “training school†revealed that big cats were being beaten with ax handles, which encouraged the USDA to develop new regulations governing animal training methods.
•PETA’s undercover investigation of Boys Town National Research Hospital’s experiments, in which researchers cut into kittens’ heads and starved cats in order to study deafness, spurred the National Institutes of Health to issue a report condemning Boys Town’s animal care and use program. The USDA found that Boys Town had failed to comply with the AWA.
•PETA convinced Mobil, Texaco, Pennzoil, Shell, and other oil companies to cover their exhaust stacks after showing how millions of birds and bats had become trapped in the shafts and were burned to death.
•After two years of negotiations and more than 400 demonstrations worldwide, McDonald’s became the first fast-food chain to agree to make basic welfare improvements for farmed animals. Burger King and Wendy’s followed suit within a year’s time, and within two years, Safeway, Kroger, and Albertson’s had also agreed to adopt stricter guidelines in order to improve the lives of billions of animals slaughtered for food.
•Thanks to PETA’s long campaign to push PETCO to take more responsibility for the animals in its care, the company agreed to stop selling large birds in all its stores and to make provisions for the millions of rats and mice in its care.
Other Projects
Since its inception in 2001, PETA’s mobile clinic, SNIP (Spay and Neuter Immediately, Please), has sterilized tens of thousands of dogs and cats at a reduced cost in the Hampton Roads, Virginia, area, preventing the births of tens of thousands of unwanted animals.
PETA has also participated in the production of three animal rights albums (Liberation: Songs to Benefit PETA, Tame Yourself, and Animal Liberation) featuring artists such as Chrissie Hynde, Howard Jones, Indigo Girls, Michael Stipe, Belinda Carlisle, and Good Charlotte. PETA has also held several “Rock Against Fur†and “Fur Is a Drag†benefit concerts featuring The B-52s, k.d. lang, and other prominent performers. Long-time supporter Sir Paul McCartney invited PETA to set up literature tables on his world tour.
Through its Fur Is Dead campaign, PETA has exposed the cruelty of the fur industry and convinced retailers like J.Crew, Wet Seal, Forever 21, and Ann Taylor to stop selling fur in their storesâ€â€and top designers such as Ralph Lauren, Marc Bouwer, and Stella McCartney have banned the use of fur in their designs. American Idol judge Simon Cowell and Oscar-winner Charlize Theron both appeared with dogs in our “If you wouldn’t wear your dog, please don’t wear any fur†ads, and Pamela Anderson, Christy Turlington, and Kim Basinger have all posed au naturel for PETA’s “I’d Rather Go Naked Than Wear Fur†ads. Martha Stewart stopped wearing fur after seeing PETA’s anti-fur videos and even hosted one of her own, exposing the horrors of the industry. Nine Inch Nails lead singer Trent Reznor narrated a video for PETA about the gruesome dog and cat fur trade in China.
PETA convinced 40 companies, including Adidas-Salamon, Gap Inc., Eddie Bauer, Nike, and Reebok, to refuse to use Indian leather in their products after our investigation of the Indian leather industry revealed horrific abuses that take place during the illegal transport of cows to slaughter. “We found the treatment of animals, as documented by PETA, to be totally unacceptable and not in keeping with the image or standards of our company,†said the CEO of Florsheim.(2)
“Meet Your Meat,†a video produced by PETA and narrated by Alec Baldwin, is a powerful look at each stage of life of animals raised for food. It was distributed to every member of Congress along with a letter from Baldwin that encouraged them to “protect animals from the array of abuses that are standard in the farmed-animal industry.â€Â(3)
Additionally, PETA staff members speak to students, from those in elementary school to those at the university level. In just one year, PETA distributed information packs to every elementary school in the U.S., reaching millions of young people. PETA and actor Alicia Silverstone launched a national “Cut Out Dissection†campaign, educating students about their right not to dissect. The peta2 Street Team’s young activists spread the “do unto others†message in their communities, and our peta2.com Web siteâ€â€the primary communication tool of PETA’s Youth Divisionâ€â€receives more than 375,000 visits per month.
In addition to our flagship site, PETA.org, PETA has dozens of other Web sites, including CowsAreCool.com, FurIsDead.com, and GoVeg.com. We welcome more than 32 million visitors to our Web sites every year.
PETA’s president, Ingrid Newkirk, has written Making Kind Choices, a book that shows how simple, everyday decisions can help animals. She has also penned a how-to book for animal rights activists, You Can Save the Animals!, and a children’s version, Kids Can Save the Animals!, as well as Free the Animals, which details the history of animal liberation in the United States, and the first animal rights cat-care book, 250 Ways to Make Your Cat Adore You. PETA has produced three cookbooks, The Compassionate Cook, published by Warner Bros.; Cooking With PETA, published by the Book Publishing Company; and The PETA Celebrity Cookbook, published by Lantern Books.
also...please don't tell me that Ringling Brothers treat there elephants well....this....and all elephants belong in the wild...not in a ring for our children's entertainment. As far as I see it, they don't advocate domestic dogs and cats to let out into the wild (I have never seen that)....they do not believe that wild animals should be put in cages.
http://www.ringlingbeatsanimals.com/bound-babies.asp If you can look at these pictures and then say that they treat their elephants well, there has to be something wrong. Look at what you said....they walk their elephants.....etc. Elephants don't belong in a ring of any kind with someone sticking a pointy object in their hide. When I looked at these pictures I cried. These babies belong with their mother not being tortured.
As for their radical agenda.....it is wrong ....against the law....etc. Fine.
There are lots of things that PETA does wrong, and that I don't agree with, the same as any other organization.
Please look at these pictures and tell me if they are fabricated? This is what they are trying to stop. In this day that we live in, IMHO, I have found that it is so hard to be 100% for anything. I support a lot of causes, but very few organizations 100%. PETA is only one of them.
Really nice post Terry. PETA did and still does amazing thing for animals, I am really glad they exist! I still do not understand why people are so cruel
Way to go Terryo. Nice information for people who don't realize PETA is stopping people from being cruel to animals.
DoctorCosmonaut said:
Jordan: Just do like I do. I have to look at every post to be sure a spammer hasn't inserted his stuff in our threads, but this thread isn't one I like to read, so I just skim down through the names of the posters checking for a bad one. If you don't want to participate in this thread anymore, just don't open it. Then when you're finished with your session and closing the computer, click on the "mark all forums read."
Hahahahahaha! But...can he do it?
J/K Jordan, I know you are strong enough!
J/K Jordan, I know you are strong enough!
Ri-i-ight! Will Power!!
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- Mar 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,601
A friend of mine has an anurism in his heart. A pig heart (parts of it) will be used to correct the life threatening issue.
In fact, not only is the list of benefits we all have gained either direclty or indirectly quite extensive, but animal research and testing has also directly benefited many animals and species, including those on the edge of extinction.
Some info from Oxford:
http://www.ox.ac.uk/animal_research/research_using_animals_an_overview/index.html
And a good article on the subject:
http://www.seattlepi.com/opinion/lead16.shtml
In fact, not only is the list of benefits we all have gained either direclty or indirectly quite extensive, but animal research and testing has also directly benefited many animals and species, including those on the edge of extinction.
Some info from Oxford:
http://www.ox.ac.uk/animal_research/research_using_animals_an_overview/index.html
And a good article on the subject:
http://www.seattlepi.com/opinion/lead16.shtml
I agree that there should not be animals in a circus. I don't support them by going to shows.
You may notice that the shows aren't the same every year. There are 2 that travel and perform. The red and the blue. When they're in my city we have spot inspections and are present at every show. I can assure you that if I ever saw anyone be cruel in any way that they would have shiny new bracelets and a place to stay for a while. I would put my career on the line if necessary.
There is a veterinary staff that travels with them. One of their techs specializes in animal forensics and is possibly the most go to person that I have ever met. She speaks at conferences and is always willing to assist us on cases. She also spends a great deal of time in Florida at the CEC.
The trainers and care takers that I have dealt with personally are animal lovers.
I'm not saying that there is without a doubt no abuse ever.
Here's a link to the CEC's website.
http://www.elephantcenter.com/?id=3626
It's possible that the pictures on the PETA site are of veterinarians or researchers restraining the elephants for a reason. It also may be an agenda from Ringling to have the CEC depict happy little babies playing. There are 3 sides to every topic, in this case there is PETA, Ringling's and the truth.
Every person that is in contact with the animals, even the performers, have background checks done. That gives me a little comfort on this subject.
Dumbo is the all time saddest Disney movie to me. I can't watch them w/o crying. I think that for all of the atrocities that I deal with every day I work I would be able to watch a kid movie! When they talk and have feelings I lose it. Cinderella and Gus Gus, UP when Doug says he hides under the porch because he loves him, so sad!
PETA does a great job at infiltrating organizations and showing people what happens in some places. When they cooperate with local enforcement great things can be accomplished.
You may notice that the shows aren't the same every year. There are 2 that travel and perform. The red and the blue. When they're in my city we have spot inspections and are present at every show. I can assure you that if I ever saw anyone be cruel in any way that they would have shiny new bracelets and a place to stay for a while. I would put my career on the line if necessary.
There is a veterinary staff that travels with them. One of their techs specializes in animal forensics and is possibly the most go to person that I have ever met. She speaks at conferences and is always willing to assist us on cases. She also spends a great deal of time in Florida at the CEC.
The trainers and care takers that I have dealt with personally are animal lovers.
I'm not saying that there is without a doubt no abuse ever.
Here's a link to the CEC's website.
http://www.elephantcenter.com/?id=3626
It's possible that the pictures on the PETA site are of veterinarians or researchers restraining the elephants for a reason. It also may be an agenda from Ringling to have the CEC depict happy little babies playing. There are 3 sides to every topic, in this case there is PETA, Ringling's and the truth.
Every person that is in contact with the animals, even the performers, have background checks done. That gives me a little comfort on this subject.
Dumbo is the all time saddest Disney movie to me. I can't watch them w/o crying. I think that for all of the atrocities that I deal with every day I work I would be able to watch a kid movie! When they talk and have feelings I lose it. Cinderella and Gus Gus, UP when Doug says he hides under the porch because he loves him, so sad!
PETA does a great job at infiltrating organizations and showing people what happens in some places. When they cooperate with local enforcement great things can be accomplished.
It also may be an agenda from Ringling to have the CEC depict happy little babies playing. There are 3 sides to every topic, in this case there is PETA, Ringling's and the truth.
The truth is...IMHO...that no baby should be taken from his mother and no elephant should be in any other place except the wild.
PETA does a great job at infiltrating organizations and showing people what happens in some places. When they cooperate with local enforcement great things can be accomplished
Amen! My sentiments exactly.
The truth is...IMHO...that no baby should be taken from his mother and no elephant should be in any other place except the wild.
PETA does a great job at infiltrating organizations and showing people what happens in some places. When they cooperate with local enforcement great things can be accomplished
Amen! My sentiments exactly.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,601
Speaking of animal liberation and eco-terrorism...
I remember a few years ago that a local mink farm was attacked by radicals and 10K mink were released by these morons.
Apparently thousands more were smart enough not to venture off and never left their open cages. They have all been raised in captivity and have never had to survive in the wild.
They were able to capture about 9k of them. But it took some work and really stressed out the little critters as they were chased, netted, trapped, etc.
Others made their way to local farms and homes where they killed chickens and ducks and attacked pets. Many were killed by dogs, coyotes, hawks, cars, etc.
I came accroos one of the cute little things while fishing at the river in the area for salmon. Lucky for some of the mink, spawned out salmon carcasses were washed up on the banks and they were able to find a food source from that. But it was only a month or so later that the entire area was flooded, so I doubt many survived that. And if they did, they surely did not survive the cold winter with no easy food source and plenty of predators ready to pick off the farm raised critters.
The farm is still in business and since then, tougher legislation has been put in effect against eco-terrorism. So the idiots not only stressed out and needlessly killed so many minks, but things backfired on them and their 'message'.
And yes, the mink would have died anyway. But they were raised and treated well, in safety and comfort, with plenty of food and water. Their deaths would have been quick and painless (as opposed to a long slow starvation or being ripped up by a dog or coyote or ran over in the street and left to die). Way to go ALF!
I remember a few years ago that a local mink farm was attacked by radicals and 10K mink were released by these morons.
Apparently thousands more were smart enough not to venture off and never left their open cages. They have all been raised in captivity and have never had to survive in the wild.
They were able to capture about 9k of them. But it took some work and really stressed out the little critters as they were chased, netted, trapped, etc.
Others made their way to local farms and homes where they killed chickens and ducks and attacked pets. Many were killed by dogs, coyotes, hawks, cars, etc.
I came accroos one of the cute little things while fishing at the river in the area for salmon. Lucky for some of the mink, spawned out salmon carcasses were washed up on the banks and they were able to find a food source from that. But it was only a month or so later that the entire area was flooded, so I doubt many survived that. And if they did, they surely did not survive the cold winter with no easy food source and plenty of predators ready to pick off the farm raised critters.
The farm is still in business and since then, tougher legislation has been put in effect against eco-terrorism. So the idiots not only stressed out and needlessly killed so many minks, but things backfired on them and their 'message'.
And yes, the mink would have died anyway. But they were raised and treated well, in safety and comfort, with plenty of food and water. Their deaths would have been quick and painless (as opposed to a long slow starvation or being ripped up by a dog or coyote or ran over in the street and left to die). Way to go ALF!
What were these minks raised for Chad?
http://www.mercyforanimals.org/fur_farms.asp
http://www.respectforanimals.co.uk/...illing_of_fur_farmed_mink_in_ireland_questio/
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=56
http://www.furkills.org/furfarming.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fQAH8NmQNE&feature=related
etc., etc,. etc,. etc.,
"Imprisoned in cages for life, fur-bearing animals are forced to endure
intensive confinement, compared to the miles of territory these animals
would enjoy in the wild - their natural state. The natural instincts of
these captive animals are completely frustrated; self-mutilation,
sickness, infection, poor sanitation and the sheer stress of confinement
lead animals to premature death. When they survive, animals of
sufficient size are killed by anal electrocution or gassing, then
skinned. Whereas reports from the fur industry have surfaced that
liberations were harmful to the animals, the Animal Liberation Front
(ALF) and other organizations have a long history of successfully
releasing animals into the wild.
“The fur industry wants the public to believe that most of the mink
liberated are recaptured or killed after being freed, but this is not
the case; and I would argue that even if some are recaptured, at least
they have been given a chance at what everyone deserves, a chance to
live free†stated Camille Hankins, a Press Officer with the Animal
Liberation Press Office. "Contrary to the rhetoric of those who profit
from the imprisonment and killing of these beautiful, wild creatures,
scientific studies have proven captive mink have the innate ability to
survive in the wild, do not decimate other animal populations or the
environment, and do not carry away small children or pets."
http://www.respectforanimals.co.uk/...illing_of_fur_farmed_mink_in_ireland_questio/
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=56
http://www.furkills.org/furfarming.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fQAH8NmQNE&feature=related
etc., etc,. etc,. etc.,
"Imprisoned in cages for life, fur-bearing animals are forced to endure
intensive confinement, compared to the miles of territory these animals
would enjoy in the wild - their natural state. The natural instincts of
these captive animals are completely frustrated; self-mutilation,
sickness, infection, poor sanitation and the sheer stress of confinement
lead animals to premature death. When they survive, animals of
sufficient size are killed by anal electrocution or gassing, then
skinned. Whereas reports from the fur industry have surfaced that
liberations were harmful to the animals, the Animal Liberation Front
(ALF) and other organizations have a long history of successfully
releasing animals into the wild.
“The fur industry wants the public to believe that most of the mink
liberated are recaptured or killed after being freed, but this is not
the case; and I would argue that even if some are recaptured, at least
they have been given a chance at what everyone deserves, a chance to
live free†stated Camille Hankins, a Press Officer with the Animal
Liberation Press Office. "Contrary to the rhetoric of those who profit
from the imprisonment and killing of these beautiful, wild creatures,
scientific studies have proven captive mink have the innate ability to
survive in the wild, do not decimate other animal populations or the
environment, and do not carry away small children or pets."
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