PETA & The HSUS

[Candy]

They raise mink still for coats, I thought they had stopped that a long time ago. What is wrong with people? There's enough fake ones out there that you don't have to kill innocent animals to look good. Good post Terryo. I just got to read some of the stuff you posted Terry. Chad you don't have much to go on here. There is no reason to raise these kinds of animals for that, no reason. And if they were let loose it was probably a better 15 minutes then being caged up by (as you say) moron humans. I'm liking this thread better and better because I am getting my children involved now so they can go against this kind of human slaughter of innocent animals. Thank you Terry for posting the information.

 

[chadk]

http://www.mercyforanimals.org/fur_farms.asp
http://www.respectforanimals.co.uk/...illing_of_fur_farmed_mink_in_ireland_questio/
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=56
http://www.furkills.org/furfarming.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fQAH8NmQNE&feature=related
etc., etc,. etc,. etc.,
"Imprisoned in cages for life, fur-bearing animals are forced to endure
intensive confinement, compared to the miles of territory these animals
would enjoy in the wild - their natural state. The natural instincts of
these captive animals are completely frustrated; self-mutilation,
sickness, infection, poor sanitation and the sheer stress of confinement
lead animals to premature death. When they survive, animals of
sufficient size are killed by anal electrocution or gassing, then
skinned. Whereas reports from the fur industry have surfaced that
liberations were harmful to the animals, the Animal Liberation Front
(ALF) and other organizations have a long history of successfully
releasing animals into the wild.
“The fur industry wants the public to believe that most of the mink
liberated are recaptured or killed after being freed, but this is not
the case; and I would argue that even if some are recaptured, at least
they have been given a chance at what everyone deserves, a chance to
live free” stated Camille Hankins, a Press Officer with the Animal
Liberation Press Office. "Contrary to the rhetoric of those who profit
from the imprisonment and killing of these beautiful, wild creatures,
scientific studies have proven captive mink have the innate ability to
survive in the wild, do not decimate other animal populations or the
environment, and do not carry away small children or pets."

Wow! That would be funny if not so sad. "successfully releasing them into the wild"??? How ignorant do they think people are??

Everyone knows you don't take farm raised animals and release them all at once into the wild and hope for the best. That is pure stupidity. YES, you can rehab and train animals to re-enter or enter the wild for the first time. But this is a PROCESS carefully worked out over time and with professionals monitoring along the way...

As for the conditions of the animals, sure, you can find some farms that do not treat their animals well. Guess what, it hurts business, so most don't! To get nice thick healthy furs for top dollar, you have to take care to raise your animals stress free, with a good diet and clean coniditions. Who would want to buy fur from farm of sickly animals?? Makes no sense, and they'd be out of business in no time.

Here is an article from the PETA friendly Seattle PI on the eco-terrorism stunt near where I live: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/142172_cupdate02.html

And you can re-write that non-sense and make tortoise owners look evil:

"Imprisoned in cages, pens, and "tortoise tables" for life, tortoises are forced to endureintensive confinement, compared to the miles of territory these animals
would enjoy in the wild - their natural state. The natural instincts of these captive animals are completely frustrated; self-mutilation,
sickness, infection, poor sanitation and the sheer stress of confinement ...."

Yep, they are coming after you and your 'pets' next. Count on it...

---

And another thing...

"captive animals are completely frustrated; self-mutilation,
sickness, infection, poor sanitation "

Are these the kinds of animals you want to release into the wild anyway??? Putting wild animals at risk from the disease ridden caged animals??? If they really believed the animals were in such dire straights, they would have moved them to a rehab facility or at least carefully euthanized them. But NO, release them into the wild - BE FREE!!! All 10,000 + of you!! At the same time, in the same place, who cares how it impacts native wild animals!! Who cares that most will not make it more than a day or 2. LOL. Idiots...

 

[Candy]

The point of this is that there should never be farms like this to begin with. And the point that you're trying to make about our tortoises I would agree with if we were all raising them to make soup with, but we're not. Some of us are rescuing them (like yourself) and some just like them for pets, but are they truly harming them? Not most of the ones on here I don't believe that. I think most of our tortoises are quite happy with the situation that they're in. Number one they get fed without wondering where the food is coming from and they have heat and nice conditions that they might not have if in the wild. If you've ever seen the elephant sanctuaries then you'd see where you can give a wild animal a good friendly and safe life, but when you're talking about raising them just to use them for profit that is wrong.

 

[terryo]

I think we have just about exhausted this thread. We each have our own opinions, so we can go on and on and on.....I know we both care for animals....each in a different way....I certainly respect you and your thoughts, and hopefully you respect mine as well. Have a happy and safe New Year ......

Life is as dear to a mute creature as it is to man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one wants to live and not die, so do other creatures.

His Holiness The Dalai Lama

 

[chadk]

More on that story:

Washington Fur Farm Raided by ALF
Reward Offered to Bring Terrorists to Justice

A substantial reward is being offered for information leading to the conviction of ecoterrorists who struck a mink farm in Snohomish County, Washington, early yesterday.

Some time between midnight and 4 a.m., from 10,000 to 12,000 domesticated mink were released from their pens and abandoned at Roesler Brothers Fur Farm in Sultan. Although almost all of the farm's pens were opened, the remainder of the 22,000 mink on the farm stayed put.

Guilt for the crime was claimed later the same day by the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) terrorist group, in an e-mail to local media. (1)

A reward of up to $100,000 is being offered by Fur Commission USA, which represents mink farmers in 28 states, for information leading to the arrest and conviction of those involved. (See below for contact information.) Anyone finding a lost mink is also asked to call FCUSA, and to exercise caution, since the animal will be scared, hungry and thirsty, and might bite.

"Small Army" of Helpers

Along with about 50 neighbors, farmers and retired farmers, Frank Candelario of American Legend Cooperative and Doug Kelly of the American Mink Council, the marketing cooperatives of North American mink farmers, worked side by side catching mink as temperatures reached almost 90 degrees. "It was intense," said Candelario. "I was very impressed with everyone working hard." The goal, he said, was to get the mink into their pens "with a healthy dose of feed, and then to get them calmed down and into their routine."

The "small army of people" caught mink in the thick, brushy trees and on the farm while paramedics helped the workers deal with cuts and bites.

Another crew worked cleaning pens of the old feed since the mink had been let out and abandoned before they'd been given their fresh feed that morning. Yet more neighbors brought food and drinks to fuel the crews.

Brothers Brad and Jeff Roesler run the farm along with their families, raising mink for use in cold-weather clothing, oils and other products. "I got people helping catch mink that I don't even know," said Brad, visibly moved by the kindness of his neighbors.

By nightfall, 60 to 70% of the traumatized mink had been recovered and bedded down, allowing farm workers to take their first breath of the day. However, the numbers were hard to confirm since the workers were too busy to stop and count.

On the morning of Aug. 26, the recovery effort resumed, while individual mink were seen returning to the farm on their own, desperate for food and water. A slight rain helped cool down the early part of the day, but the weather warmed up at noon, making it more likely that mink still out in the woods would succumb to thirst and dehydration.

Neighbors continued to assist the farmers, with 8- to 10-year-olds mastering the loop snare and lassoing mink. An elderly woman apologized for not being "any good at catching mink," but brought a freshly baked pie instead!

Becky Demuth, a mink farmer in Iowa, called to offer her support to the farming families. It was almost exactly a year ago that the Demuth farm experienced its own attack by ecoterrorists.

"No matter how bad one of these attacks is on a farm, they always restore my confidence in people," said FCUSA's executive director, Teresa Platt. "The neighbors have been wonderful helpers at saving this farm and we thank them." Roesler family members echoed Platt's sentiments, calling their neighbors "amazing" and "fabulous".

Yet even those mink which are returned to the safety of the farm are still at risk. "We're still losing them due to trauma" caused by the stress of being released and abandoned, explained one family member. Every effort is being made to ensure a high survival rate, but the next 24 hours will be critical.

Damage Estimate

Using past attacks on mink farms as a guide, an initial estimate of the damage has been put at $500,000. Explained Teresa Platt to the Seattle Times, this includes the loss of genetic history for the animals and the fact that the farm raises the coveted blue mink, which have a higher value than standard black or brown mink.

The latest terrorist strike continues an expensive month for the West. On Aug. 1, an arson attack on a San Diego apartment construction site caused $50 million in damages. This was followed on Aug. 21 by a $1 million arson at an automobile dealership in West Covina, Los Angeles. And on Aug. 28, two bombs exploded at biotech company Chiron Corp. in Emeryville.

"Obviously eco-terrorists are on a road trip doing damage in Western States," said Platt. "We urge people to stay alert. Everyone who relies on the Earth and its animals to live is a potential target. That's all of us."

Notes:

(1) Following is the message received by local media. An accurate picture of how domesticated mink fare in the wild is presented in a National Public Radio report on a 1998 fur farm raid in Michigan. (RealPlayer required)

 

[Candy]

All I can say Chad is that these people are idiots and I'm not talking about the terrorists. They shouldn't have the minks to begin with I feel no sympathy what so ever for them. I really could care less about what the terrorists due to people like them. Why would I care about someone who is hurting something just to make money?

 

[dmmj]

SO farm raised minks? or wild caugt minks? which is better, and remember this is still a free country so mink coats are not outlawed.

 

[Luvthemtorts]

Candy,
Just so I know how far you are willing to promote this let me ask a few questions if I may.
You and your family have NO leather goods in your home or in your wardrobe (including belts, shoes, wallets, purses, etc.)?
You and the entire family are vegan?
If your honest answer to these questions is no to the first and yes to the second then I congratulate you on standing behind your convictions fully.
Also I notice you keep dogs and cats. You are aware that the majority of pet food manufacturers use by products from animals slaughtered for commercial use correct?

All I can say Chad is that these people are idiots and I'm not talking about the terrorists. They shouldn't have the minks to begin with I feel no sympathy what so ever for them. I really could care less about what the terrorists due to people like them. Why would I care about someone who is hurting something just to make money?

 

[TylerStewart]

They raise mink still for coats, I thought they had stopped that a long time ago. What is wrong with people? There's enough fake ones out there that you don't have to kill innocent animals to look good.
There is no reason to raise these kinds of animals for that, no reason. And if they were let loose it was probably a better 15 minutes then being caged up by (as you say) moron humans.

The point of this is that there should never be farms like this to begin with.

They shouldn't have the minks to begin with I feel no sympathy what so ever for them.

This is a free market country, and there's nothing illegal about raising these in a farm for their fur. If there is a demand for it, there will be a supply of it. There's many other animals that are raised for their skins and fur. It's none of your business what a farmer or any company wants to do within the law. If your opinion is that it's wrong, feel free not to buy them. That's the biggest problem I have with this whole debate - one side trying to ban everything instead of just not buying it. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Interesting that most of the animals didn't leave their cages or the property. Life must have been terrible.

 

[Candy]

Laws were made to be broken Tyler. How do you think women and the african American people got their rights? Just because it's a LAW doesn't make it right and in this situation it is not right to raise mink to kill them. That's just not my opinion it is the opinion of many and that's one reason there's organizations like PETA.

 

[Isa]

That's the biggest problem I have with this whole debate - one side trying to ban everything instead of just not buying it. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Yes well, the problem is even if we do not buy it, the poor little creatures will still be killed for their fur! Someone has to defend their rights!

 

[TylerStewart]

Someone has to defend their rights!

Could you direct me to a place where I can find the written "rights" of these animals? Keep in mind people, these are animals - not people in Africa.

Just because PETA doesn't like it, doesn't mean there is something illegal going on there. If they are able to find abuse and stop it, more power to them, and I don't think anybody disagrees. As bad as you don't want to believe it, these and many commercial animals are never in pain.

 

[Isa]

Someone has to defend their rights!

Could you direct me to a place where I can find the written "rights" of these animals? Keep in mind people, these are animals - not people in Africa.

Just because PETA doesn't like it, doesn't mean there is something illegal going on there. If they are able to find abuse and stop it, more power to them, and I don't think anybody disagrees. As bad as you don't want to believe it, these and many commercial animals are never in pain.

Ok PLEASEEEEE, Do you really think they live happy lives, NO THEY DO NOT! Poor little creatures
Animals have rights (or they should have), they are living creatures not just some objects.

 

[TylerStewart]

Could you direct me to a place where I can find the written "rights" of these animals?

Animals have rights (or they should have), they are living creatures not just some objects.

Eeeeexactly. They don't have rights. As someone else said before, it's in the farmer or breeder's best interests financially to keep livestock healthy, as it is in any animal business - including my own. Many animals won't produce if they are housed in less than appropriate conditions.

As I said before, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

[Yvonne G]

I swore I wasn't going to get involved with this thread, but ok...now you've suckered me in:

My grandfather raised fox to sell the fur. Those critters were very well cared for. And while they were not roaming free all over their territory, they also did not have to worry about where their next meal was coming from. They had comfortable, large quarters, and no fear of predation. They were totally at ease in their cages, not pacing or trying to escape. And they were killed, eventually, humanely.

I wear leather shoes, I have a really nice suede coat. I eat beef and chicken. And I love animals.

 

[chadk]

Once again we see people spouting out based purely on emotion and not looking any deeper into what is going on... Do you really think releasing all those animals into the wild as the right thing to do? Sure, based on romanticized emotions maybe. But in reality, they screwed up big time.

1) More animals were abused than when they started
2) More animals suffered in worse ways
3) The laws were made tougher on eco-terrorism
4) Mink farms only grew stronger and simply increased security
5) Local people around the farm who may not have been big fans of the farm are now bonded together against a common enemy

If you feel animals need rights, pursue it in legal ways. Or if you want, try peaceful civil disobedience. But violiance and terrorism is only bringing you down to the level of your enemies and in many ways even lower.

Don't like fur, then don't wear it. Don't support the industry. It is as simple as supply and demand. They won't be in business if there is not a demand for it. Use your brains, not ignorant emotionally driven acts of stupidity like those terrorists.

 

[Isa]

I swore I wasn't going to get involved with this thread, but ok...now you've suckered me in:

My grandfather raised fox to sell the fur. Those critters were very well cared for. And while they were not roaming free all over their territory, they also did not have to worry about where their next meal was coming from. They had comfortable, large quarters, and no fear of predation. They were totally at ease in their cages, not pacing or trying to escape. And they were killed, eventually, humanely.

I wear leather shoes, I have a really nice suede coat. I eat beef and chicken. And I love animals.

Yvonne, It is not every breeders that does what your grandfather did. Not all the animals killed for fur have good lives. I have heard some pretty bad stories that happened and I do not approve killing an animal for fur.

Tyler, it is not because it is not written that animals do not have rights, it is a question of common sense.

 

[TylerStewart]

I do not approve killing an animal for fur.

The beautiful thing about America is that you have the right not to approve of that, just as the farmer has the right to make a living.

About the only irresponsible thing I think the mink farmer did was not having big enough guard dogs and a big enough rifle. I use both tactics out here You can call me old school, but you can't call me stupid LOL.

 

[dmmj]

Laws were made to be broken Tyler. How do you think women and the african American people got their rights? Just because it's a LAW doesn't make it right and in this situation it is not right to raise mink to kill them. That's just not my opinion it is the opinion of many and that's one reason there's organizations like PETA.

I was waiting for someone to bring up women and african amercians, that is the worst way to try and bolster an argument iMHO, If you look at the constitution afrian americans should never have been made slaves "all men are created equal" so that argument is specious at best, I am always personally disgusted when people try and equate animal rights to the trials women and african americans went thru to gain rights they should of had when the country was founded. Trying to use that argument is trying to make the other person feel bad by saying well you must not care about them since you don't think breaking laws is ok for a good cause. Animals are not people.

---

That's the biggest problem I have with this whole debate - one side trying to ban everything instead of just not buying it. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Yes well, the problem is even if we do not buy it, the poor little creatures will still be killed for their fur! Someone has to defend their rights!

Animals don't have rights, PETA wants to give them rights so they can insure that peopel can't have pets, go to zoos and everything else.

---

I swore I wasn't going to get involved with this thread, but ok...now you've suckered me in:

My grandfather raised fox to sell the fur. Those critters were very well cared for. And while they were not roaming free all over their territory, they also did not have to worry about where their next meal was coming from. They had comfortable, large quarters, and no fear of predation. They were totally at ease in their cages, not pacing or trying to escape. And they were killed, eventually, humanely.

I wear leather shoes, I have a really nice suede coat. I eat beef and chicken. And I love animals.

Obviously you are a paid troll for the big fox indusrty how do people like you sleep at night. ( sarcasm implied)

 

[chadk]

"How do you think women and the african American people got their rights?"

By becoming violent terrorists of course!!

By attacking small local farmers and vandalizing their property and burning buildings and setting bombs?

"Laws were made to be broken"

What?? Like murder? Rape? Arson? Vandalism? I think that is a pretty strange line if thinking.... Can a law be fixed? Changed? Updated? Repealed? Sure. But there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it.

So many claim to be 'live and let live' in their world view - yet they really don't practice what they preach. "live my way, or I'll do something violent against you" is what seems to be suggested in this thread by some.

When someone sets your torts and other pets free to be killed and run over and attacked by coyotes - I really doubt you'll be saying "that was the best 15 minutes of their lives". In your mind, you may find having a tort as a pet and having a tort from breeding and having a mink kept for fur as different things. But PETA and ALF lump them all together - so your pets really could be next. And hopefully when the cut down your gates and burn your barns, no family member is injured or killed by their violent actions.