That's very interesting. thx
tyguy35 said:Hey I'm new to the tortoise thing, about 2 months ago I got a baby leopard babcocki I'm keeping him on Eco earth with on side topped with hay his hid is a half log underneath the hay. Does that sound like an ok setting? So basically if I keep him hydrated which I do have a water dish he drinks from and if I spray him with water he won't or shouldn't pyramid. Also I should spray his substrate all of it? And how wet? How wet whould his hide be btw his hides just beside the heat lamp. Oh and at his small size I can still let him run around the yard permittig safe?
Thanks
DiannaandLeah said:Hi Tom,
Love your advise and take it to heart. I'm not sure if you've seen my post days ago about finding a baby Leo, but anyway, I will try and post pics, it appears to me like she (not sure of sex again when I post pics I would love info.) it pryamiding,middle of her shell is spiking up like a ridge back sort of. I'm doing all the things you have recommended, high humidity,soaks and spraying through the day but..is pryamiding reveiseable? Could it have happened in just a few days of dehydration? She ws found in TX (100+ degree days) not sure how long she wandered. I'll post and wait for now. Thanks again for sharing all of your great experience it really helps us newbies out tons!
Peace-
Dianna
katherine said:WOW! Very impressed and pleased to read this incredibly long thread about your experiementation with humidity : ) Sounds like you are right on track and I am extremely curious to find out how these guys will turn out further down the line! Interestingly I have lived in naturally high humidity areas and offered additional HIGHER humidity retreats ( but without ever forcing entry into them, so couldn't say definitively how much time was spent there ) my entire tortoise owning life and still notice pyramiding on my leopards. [i know i mentioned this to you elsewhere but i had NO IDEA you had this massive investigation launched ] Anyways it is a HUGE source of frustration and although it doesnt seem to affect their overall well being it is obviously unnatural and while I strive hard to provide optimal conditions and diets I have had no leads on how to correct or prevent the pyramiding of leopard tortoises in the future. Hopefully you hold the KEY. Great work and thank you for sharing this information for the betterment of Pardalis everywhere : )
Neal said:katherine said:WOW! Very impressed and pleased to read this incredibly long thread about your experiementation with humidity : ) Sounds like you are right on track and I am extremely curious to find out how these guys will turn out further down the line! Interestingly I have lived in naturally high humidity areas and offered additional HIGHER humidity retreats ( but without ever forcing entry into them, so couldn't say definitively how much time was spent there ) my entire tortoise owning life and still notice pyramiding on my leopards. [i know i mentioned this to you elsewhere but i had NO IDEA you had this massive investigation launched ] Anyways it is a HUGE source of frustration and although it doesnt seem to affect their overall well being it is obviously unnatural and while I strive hard to provide optimal conditions and diets I have had no leads on how to correct or prevent the pyramiding of leopard tortoises in the future. Hopefully you hold the KEY. Great work and thank you for sharing this information for the betterment of Pardalis everywhere : )
How often would your tortoises have access to drinking water as they were growing up?
Tom said:In my experience the leopards do seem more prone to pyramiding in captivity. I think they are the most prone to it in fact. I was seeing rougher, more pronounced growth lines on my leos that had the split scutes, vs. the ones who didn't. It was as if everything just didn't line up the way it was supposed to. Since the time of that post, things have sort of leveled and smoothed out. I had one that was starting to grow crooked. One vertebral scute was sort of twisted in place. Because of that, I decided not to sell that one and figured I'd be stuck with it. Well now, a year later, it has really straightened out and "normalized" and I have trouble even telling which one it was.
Neal has been growing smooth ones for a while now and so have I. My method is to keep their indoor pens damp, warm and very humid. I also offer a humid hide box and spray their shells with water several times a day. Terry K. and Richard Fife taught me that technique actually. I also soak everyday for the first year or so and then taper it off like you do. I make sure that they have a shallow water bowl to drink from all the time. So far all these things together are working well for me. Other people have variations of these things and variable results to go with it.
One key is that this all happens very early. The pattern for growth, either smooth or pyramided, is established in the first few weeks or months of life. Its really hard to stop it once it starts, but if you switch them into the right conditions before a certain point in their growth, then they will begin to smooth out and the damage will be minimized.
Katherine your leopards look far better than most. I think they look great. In the one pic you can see how the growth lines change pretty drastically, signifying different conditions during periods of growth.
katherine said:I may keep the next clutch and run my own "toms experiment" in hopes of producing a smoother batch as well.