The End Of Pyramiding II-The Leopards

[Badgemash]

Corey, you are suffering for a terrible case of tortoise envy. I know this because I frequently suffer from this affliction as well. There is no cure, but acquiring more torts does seem to help a bit.

So what are you saying I should be waiting for a Fedex truck with a little box for me that says from Tom

Hey there's a price for everything. How bad do you want one? I just seen a popup ad on the home page for tires buy three get one free does that apply to torts also?

you had to say that you got me thinking

And me thinking... Sparty is definitely starting to look like he has a "boy" tail (no clue yet with Gunny), so I might have to get him a lady friend... or three. Seriously though, it's interesting to see the color variations, the one on the left in the 3rd pic looks just like Sparty, all yellow.

-Devon

 

[stells]

You want people who have had the same results raising tortoises dry... to be quiet and bow down... not going to happen from this naysayer...

 

[Jacqui]

Reminder folks, please TRY to stay on topic and keep personal remarks to yourself.


Stells why not SHOW them pictures of some of your dry tortoises and refresh them on how you kept them. It might help several folks understand better the other side of things.

 

[stells]

I have before... they weren't appreciated so i got them removed and stated that i would no longer bother along that line...

 

[Jacqui]

I have before... they weren't appreciated so i got them removed and stated that i would no longer bother along that line...

I for one am very sorry you had them removed. I myself do not agree with the extremeness of most of the "wet movement" and would have like to have seen proof from several members and discussion showing folks that the drier way also seems to work.

 

[stells]

I'll dig some out and send them to you privately over the weekend...

 

[Az tortoise compound]

I have before... they weren't appreciated so i got them removed and stated that i would no longer bother along that line...

That is a shame!
Both ends of the spectrum need to be presented for the whole to improve.

 

[Neal]

I'll dig some out and send them to you privately over the weekend...

Kelly, would you be willing to post them here?:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hydration-Vs-Humidity-Adults-Only#axzz1Gz37p6WI

They will have a happy home there, even if appreciated by none other than me.

 

[Tom]

You want people who have had the same results raising tortoises dry... to be quiet and bow down... not going to happen from this naysayer...

No, its quite the opposite Kelly. I'd love to see pics of any smooth leopard tortoise and hear exactly how it was raised. Wet, dry, zero gravity, hot, cold, any which way really. I want to learn and share info. I have frequently said there is more than one way to do it, and agreed with others who said the same. I'm just trying to share what has worked for me. I would LOVE to see anyone having success at it, whichever way they are doing it.

I saw also saw your pics and DID appreciate them. In fact I called them gorgeous in a post on another thread. However, I think smooth Greeks and smooth Leopards are like apples and oranges. Either way, I would love for you to start a thread sharing YOUR methods, and what works for you, and posting more of those fantastic pics of your beautiful tortoises.

In other words, instead of us being adversaries and arguing about whose method is better, I'd like us to be parallel compatriots. Two people, side by side, showing two different ways to raise smooth healthy tortoises. Really I don't think either of us is right or wrong. We both get good results. I think EVERYONE benefits this way.

 

[Tom]

I hate taking indoor pics. The lighting is always bad. When I put them into their outside enclosure they all disappear into the weeds and I just capture the occasional photo. So here's a few. Weights are 104 to 186 now. They are growing pretty slowly, but they sure eat a lot. They munch on weeds all day and on cold days they eat lots of stuff in their indoor enclosures.

 

[ticothetort2]

Looking good Tom, hopefully this sun will decide to stay soon. We've had a few nice days in San Diego but it keeps resorting back to the May Gray.

 

[luke]

Wow, your torts are growing quite beautifully Tom. NIce outdoor pics.

Some day I will have a Pardalis.

 

[dmarcus]

They look so good....

 

[vampire5003]

Wow I started doing this and my leopard is more active than the dry method. I wanted to ask why your coco coir (on page 2 I think) looked like it had wood chips in it? I have a hard time with coco coir but my crazy leopard looks at cypress mulch like how I look at strawberry pie. I also don't really like cypress mulch too much.

 

[Tom]

So here's a long overdue update. The purpose of this thread is to show how they are being kept and what the results are over the long term, good or bad. They are still soaked daily, sprayed several times a day, and sunned for 1-4 hours an average of 5 days a week. They are fed a very mixed diet of mostly weeds, spring mix, cactus, Santa Barbara mix, Mazuri, grape leaves, mulberry leaves, grass, etc... So here are the results after around 8 or 9 months so far...

In order from smallest to biggest, here is #1 at 120 grams. This one is the "blondest" and you can see its a little lumpy toward the top rear of the carapace. This one almost never goes in the hide box. He even comes back out of the hide box when I put him in there repeatedly after lights out.

#2 at 122 grams.

#3 at 123 grams.

#4 at 133 grams.

#5 at 148 grams.

#6 at 148 grams too. #'s 6, 8 and 13 were with someone else for around 5 months. They didn't do as much of the wet routine as I do and it shows. Its easier to see in person in 3 dimensions, but I think you can see it in the photos too. Its already less noticeable since they've been back with my for a few weeks.

#7 at 150 grams.

#8 at 151 grams. We call this one "High Dome".

#9 at 156 grams. Interestingly, the ones with the split scutes, like this one, show MORE of a tendency to pyramid. I have no explanation for that, but its consistent.

#10 at 167 grams. This one had one scute in the middle of his back start to turn clockwise about a month after I got him and is also a split scute. I didn't sell him because of that and wanted to see what would happen. Now 8 months later the crooked scute is straightening out, but the shell is still "lumpier" than my average.

#11 at 171 grams.

#12 at 184 grams.

#13 at 198 grams. We call this one "Big Momma". The breeder says that the ones with split scutes are almost always female. She has been the biggest and fastest growing since around the first month.

And finally #14 at 26 grams. This little one is still in the brooder box absorbing its yolk sac. It will go into a regular enclosure tomorrow or the next day.

 

[l0velesly]

Very nice shell growth. Humidity really does seem to play a huge role in smooth shells!

 

[coreyc]

Wow they all look great Tom I think 13 is my fav nice pattern developing

 

[ticothetort2]

They look great Tom, a nice little group you got growing there!

 

[DesertGrandma]

Tom, will you describe what is a "split scute"?

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Every single one of these are beautiful. It would be so hard to part with any of them.

 

[Tom]

Sure. If you look at your tortoise's carapace (top shell) you'll see a fairly symmetrical pattern of geometrical shapes called scutes. The scutes are a thin keratinous layer that covers the underlying bone. Every once in a while one of the scutes will split during embryonic development and when that tortoise hatches it will have a split scute and an irregular pattern. There is debate about why this happens and what causes it, but high and or irregular incubation temperatures seem to be commonly associated with it and some feel that genetics play a part too. The breeder of all these babies told me that the ones with split scutes are almost always female.

And your right about parting with them. Originally I got 36 and I wanted to keep them ALL. I'm keeping all of these and raising them to adulthood.