This MUST End Now!!!

[Detach]

So I plan on picking up a baby leopard tortoise and I keep reading all different things about the enclosure. I am in the process of building him an enclosure but I need to know if I make it enclosed or not. The reason I say this is because of humidity. I've been researching for a long time now and some people say yes to the humidity, as it is used for smooth shell growth. Others say no, that it will cause respiratory issues. I really need to know the answer now because I have people waiting on me and they are not happy.

 

[Taylor T.]

Yes, humidity is extremely important to proper husbandry. There is a lot of incorrect information floating around, so it is good that you came here. Tortoises are often stereotyped as being desert animals. While it is true that they do spend a lot of their life in dry conditions, African species hatch during monsoon season. As you can imagine, this is an extremely wet, humid, and warm time of year. This means that for a large portion of their growing life, they are in a humid environment.

The reason people say that it causes respiratory issues, is that if you keep them humid, but not warm enough, they WILL eventually succumb to respiratory infection. If you keep them in a humid and warm environment, they will thrive.

Here are some threads on the topic:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

 

[Jodie]

Taylor T is spot on. Minimum 80F temp, everywhere day and night. Even corners and inside hides. 80% humidity or higher.

 

[Detach]

Yes, humidity is extremely important to proper husbandry. There is a lot of incorrect information floating around, so it is good that you came here. Tortoises are often stereotyped as being desert animals. While it is true that they do spend a lot of their life in dry conditions, African species hatch during monsoon season. As you can imagine, this is an extremely wet, humid, and warm time of year. This means that for a large portion of their growing life, they are in a humid environment.

The reason people say that it causes respiratory issues, is that if you keep them humid, but not warm enough, they WILL eventually succumb to respiratory infection. If you keep them in a humid and warm environment, they will thrive.

Here are some threads on the topic:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

Thank you so much Taylor!

 

[Detach]

Yes, humidity is extremely important to proper husbandry. There is a lot of incorrect information floating around, so it is good that you came here. Tortoises are often stereotyped as being desert animals. While it is true that they do spend a lot of their life in dry conditions, African species hatch during monsoon season. As you can imagine, this is an extremely wet, humid, and warm time of year. This means that for a large portion of their growing life, they are in a humid environment.

The reason people say that it causes respiratory issues, is that if you keep them humid, but not warm enough, they WILL eventually succumb to respiratory infection. If you keep them in a humid and warm environment, they will thrive.

Here are some threads on the topic:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

I have about a 3x6 habitat with two uvb lamps and a night heat lamp. do you think that's enough to keep it heated?

 

[Taylor T.]

Well, That's not all that specific. How well is the enclosure sealed? What type bulbs, and what wattage? You will have to test the environment BEFORE you get your tortoise, not just guess and hope it is adequate.

For heating and lighting, I would suggest a long tube florescent UVB bulb, a 65 or so watt incandescent flood bulb found for around 1$ at any Walmart or equivalent store, and a CHE run on a thermostat.

But again, every setup is different, and there is no guarantee that this will work for you. You will have to experiment for a bit.

 

[wellington]

So I plan on picking up a baby leopard tortoise and I keep reading all different things about the enclosure. I am in the process of building him an enclosure but I need to know if I make it enclosed or not. The reason I say this is because of humidity. I've been researching for a long time now and some people say yes to the humidity, as it is used for smooth shell growth. Others say no, that it will cause respiratory issues. I really need to know the answer now because I have people waiting on me and they are not happy.

You need to stop listening to people outside this forum and that will solve most your problems.

 

[wellington]

I actually live in Chicago. Your four seasons will require adapting. I wouldn't bother much with regular incandescent bulbs. They don't last long and in our winters, depending on where you keep the enclosure, it won't do much. Do a Mercury vapor bulb and two ceramic heat emitters set the che on a thermostat and the MVB on a timer. Do a closed enclosure and run everything before you bring the tort home.

 

[Tom]

So I plan on picking up a baby leopard tortoise and I keep reading all different things about the enclosure. I am in the process of building him an enclosure but I need to know if I make it enclosed or not. The reason I say this is because of humidity. I've been researching for a long time now and some people say yes to the humidity, as it is used for smooth shell growth. Others say no, that it will cause respiratory issues. I really need to know the answer now because I have people waiting on me and they are not happy.

This is a dilemma every new keeper faces. For 30-40 years the wrong advice for this species has been dispensed, circulated and repeated. This is not a desert species and dry conditions can kill or disfigure them. Yet all of the old books, many vets and experts, and most breeders still parrot this old incorrect info.

This humid and hydrated way of raising them has only come about in the last few years and many people haven't caught on. I've raised dozens of leopard tortoises in warm humid conditions and they thrive. They also grow smooth and look more like what they are supposed to look like. I argue with experienced tortoise keepers about this on a regular basis, because they were taught the old wrong way, and many are skeptical or resistant to any sort of change. They parrot the incorrect info about shell rot and respiratory infections, but when I show them pic after pic of smooth healthy tortoises with no shell rot and no RI, most of them relent. Some are just stubborn. They ignore facts and evidence and carry on doing it the way they've done it for years and refuse to believe any new info despite living, breathing proof.

If you do it the dry way with an open top, you will learn what many of us already know. A large percentage of those babies die because the chronic dehydration kills their kidneys. The ones that survive will be horribly and irreversibly pyramided. Or you can do it the way we are telling you, and your baby will thrive, grow, have a smooth shell and be healthy and hydrated. I've done it both way many times over three decades. Ask the dry proponents how many times they've tried it my way.

It is also imperative the you buy a baby from someone who starts their hatchlings correctly. If you buy one from one of these dry breeders, it won't matter how you house it. If the kidneys are damaged before you get the baby, it will die in a few weeks or months no matter what anyone does. I linked this info in a previous thread, but here it is again for easy reference:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/

Why is the breeder trying to rush you? That is not right. That is a red flag if you ask me. You need time to set up your enclosure, run it, check it and make adjustments if needed. Putting a baby into an enclosure that is not set up correctly is a big mistake, and this breeder should not be rushing you. Lots of people hatch leopard tortoises and they lay eggs all summer long. You can pass on this batch and get a different one. This will give you more time to do some testing and figure all this out. There is no hurry here. Take your time and do it right the first time. What you decide right now will have consequences for decades to come.

 

[Alaskamike]

I would suggest you get an infrared heat gun. That sounds expensive , but really , I got mine at Home Depot for about $10.

You shoot the red dot on a surface & it digitally tells you temp. Because it will be important you know the temps at the torts level.

Good fortune to you

 

[jaizei]

Stay on topic.

 

[SteveW]

So I plan on picking up a baby leopard tortoise and I keep reading all different things about the enclosure. I am in the process of building him an enclosure but I need to know if I make it enclosed or not. The reason I say this is because of humidity. I've been researching for a long time now and some people say yes to the humidity, as it is used for smooth shell growth. Others say no, that it will cause respiratory issues. I really need to know the answer now because I have people waiting on me and they are not happy.

You bring up excellent questions and there is information that points in multiple directions. If I were to seek specific information on say, humidity, I might ask the giver of such information what exactly was the scope and breadth of their experience and/or research that lead to the conclusion. I might even request pictures. As was mentioned earlier, you may want to rethink your source. The pressure you mention is not a great sign.
Best of luck.

 

[Tom]

I have about a 3x6 habitat with two uvb lamps and a night heat lamp. do you think that's enough to keep it heated?

Only your thermometer can answer this question. We would just be guessing.

 

[Detach]

This is a dilemma every new keeper faces. For 30-40 years the wrong advice for this species has been dispensed, circulated and repeated. This is not a desert species and dry conditions can kill or disfigure them. Yet all of the old books, many vets and experts, and most breeders still parrot this old incorrect info.

This humid and hydrated way of raising them has only come about in the last few years and many people haven't caught on. I've raised dozens of leopard tortoises in warm humid conditions and they thrive. They also grow smooth and look more like what they are supposed to look like. I argue with experienced tortoise keepers about this on a regular basis, because they were taught the old wrong way, and many are skeptical or resistant to any sort of change. They parrot the incorrect info about shell rot and respiratory infections, but when I show them pic after pic of smooth healthy tortoises with no shell rot and no RI, most of them relent. Some are just stubborn. They ignore facts and evidence and carry on doing it the way they've done it for years and refuse to believe any new info despite living, breathing proof.

If you do it the dry way with an open top, you will learn what many of us already know. A large percentage of those babies die because the chronic dehydration kills their kidneys. The ones that survive will be horribly and irreversibly pyramided. Or you can do it the way we are telling you, and your baby will thrive, grow, have a smooth shell and be healthy and hydrated. I've done it both way many times over three decades. Ask the dry proponents how many times they've tried it my way.

It is also imperative the you buy a baby from someone who starts their hatchlings correctly. If you buy one from one of these dry breeders, it won't matter how you house it. If the kidneys are damaged before you get the baby, it will die in a few weeks or months no matter what anyone does. I linked this info in a previous thread, but here it is again for easy reference:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-incubate-eggs-and-start-hatchlings.124266/

Why is the breeder trying to rush you? That is not right. That is a red flag if you ask me. You need time to set up your enclosure, run it, check it and make adjustments if needed. Putting a baby into an enclosure that is not set up correctly is a big mistake, and this breeder should not be rushing you. Lots of people hatch leopard tortoises and they lay eggs all summer long. You can pass on this batch and get a different one. This will give you more time to do some testing and figure all this out. There is no hurry here. Take your time and do it right the first time. What you decide right now will have consequences for decades to come.

No I'm not rushed to getting the tortoise I'm rushed to building his enclosure because the person who is supposed to help me keeps disagreeing when I tell her they need a humid enclosure but she agrees now.

 

[Detach]

I would suggest you get an infrared heat gun. That sounds expensive , but really , I got mine at Home Depot for about $10.

You shoot the red dot on a surface & it digitally tells you temp. Because it will be important you know the temps at the torts level.

Good fortune to you

I have one I'll definitely use it to help me test it

 

[Detach]

Only your thermometer can answer this question. We would just be guessing.

Yeah I was in no rush to get the tortoise the rush is building the enclosure but I'm definitely going to test the temperatures

 

[Detach]

I actually live in Chicago. Your four seasons will require adapting. I wouldn't bother much with regular incandescent bulbs. They don't last long and in our winters, depending on where you keep the enclosure, it won't do much. Do a Mercury vapor bulb and two ceramic heat emitters set the che on a thermostat and the MVB on a timer. Do a closed enclosure and run everything before you bring the tort home.

What wattage for the bulbs?

 

[wellington]

From what I have seen at the reptile shows in the burbs of Illinois, there's not many that have a clue on how a tortoise should be raised. I can bet not one raises them or starts them right. If they start them dry, as this person does, you might want to say thanks, but no thanks. There are plenty of breeders here that does it right.

 

[Detach]

From what I have seen at the reptile shows in the burbs of Illinois, there's not many that have a clue on how a tortoise should be raised. I can bet not one raises them or starts them right. If they start them dry, as this person does, you might want to say thanks, but no thanks. There are plenty of breeders here that does it right.

I was going to buy the tortoise from Arizona tortoise compound or tortoise yard or myturtlestore

 

[wellington]

What wattage for the bulbs?

My Che's are 100 watt and the MVB I believe is also 100 watt. If you wanted to do a flourescent UVB, then you may need to add a third che.
My hatchling which is almost two, well in November has been raised in a 4x4 greenhouse in my basement. Because of it being square, I have one MVB, one regular flourescent and 3 Che's all on timer or thermostat. The thermostats do the adjusting during the four seasons.