She's a he? Possible prolapse

[Blakem]

Is this the sulcata you adopted from me?

No. I bought her as a hatchling from Katherine Schmidt, I think she's just Katherine here.

 

[Blakem]

So glad she is ok!

I am absolutely happy she is as well.

 

[HLogic]

Turns out, he's a she. It was her vulva....thankfully, as determined through x Ray, she's not blocked up and has no stones. The vet also said she doesn't see to many that are healthy like she is.

The vulva in this state can be caused from straining to poop, parasites, and the condition it looks was caused from bacteria built from the sugar soaks. I'm to continue the sugar soak 2-3 times a day, put an ointment on it, and keep her in a clean place. Which will be my bathroom.

To determine parasites contributed, a stool sample will be collected. The first step is to use the ointment to keep it moist. If that doesn't work, get the stool and fix the parasite intrusion. The vet said last and worst case, amputation. She mentioned that she's confident the first treatment s will do the job, especially since she's seen much worse.

View attachment 122750

Tortoises do not, nor as far as I can determine does any reptile, have vulvae. Radiographic sex determination of a tortoise is only possible if calcified ova are present. Note that the soft tissue of the 'vulva' is not visible on the radiograph... Secondarily, if the sugar soaks are subjectively responsible for the extrusion, why would the vet suggest continuing the treatment? ...and wasn't this a treatment suggested AFTER the extrusion was detected? If so, it isn't the causative agent. Ask the vet if it would not be more prudent to use a saline soak instead. Saline is bacteriostatic (as is high concentration of sugar) but is less likely to promote bacterial growth in any concentration.

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[Blakem]

Tortoises do not, nor as far as I can determine does any reptile, have vulvae. Radiographic sex determination of a tortoise is only possible if calcified ova are present. Note that the soft tissue of the 'vulva' is not visible on the radiograph... Secondarily, if the sugar soaks are subjectively responsible for the extrusion, why would the vet suggest continuing the treatment? ...and wasn't this a treatment suggested AFTER the extrusion was detected? If so, it isn't the causative agent. Ask the vet if it would not be more prudent to use a saline soak instead. Saline is bacteriostatic (as is high concentration of sugar) but is less likely to promote bacterial growth in any concentration.

The sugar soaks are used to reduce the swelling, hopefully causing the organ to be easier to go back in. The sugar soaks didn't cause the extrusion, they allowed for the build up of bacteria. The bacteria caused what eventually looked like bad scabbing on the affected area. Would a saline soak be drinkable? It seems like it may promote dehydration, even if I provide a water container in my bathroom.

 

[argus333]

I've been down this road! sugar soak works great and i use mineral oil to lube it up and help it slide back in. keep him in a plastic tub or a clean non substrate enviroment.

 

[Blakem]

I've been down this road! sugar soak works great and i use mineral oil to lube it up and help it slide back in. keep him in a plastic tub or a clean non substrate enviroment.

I just used Clorox wipes to wipe my bathroom floor, I hope that's okay. I should have just used mineral oil....I was charged 50$ for the stuff they gave me. I have a big bottle of mineral oil as well....oh well.

 

[jaizei]

How long was it out before you started the initial treatment with sugar?

I am also curious as to how exactly the sex was ascertained. I don't spend a lot of time looking at tortoise x-rays. The first pictures you posted looked like a tortoise penis if I ever saw one.

 

[Yvonne G]

When I took a young female YF tortoise to my vet because of a prolapse she told me (and I can't use her exact words/thoughts because I'm not totally cognizant of tortoise anatomy) you can't tell male from female organs by scoping or through an X-ray. It was something about the way the penis is positioned inside the tortoise that makes it hard to know if it's male parts or female parts. I thought my YF was male and that it was the penis that was prolapsed, but it turns out she was egg bound and it was her female parts that were prolapsed. The vet was able to get it back inside and stitched, and eventually lots and lots of little pebbles came out, along with the eggs.

 

[christinaland128]

Poor baby! I hope everything resumes its place!

 

[Blakem]

How long was it out before you started the initial treatment with sugar?

I am also curious as to how exactly the sex was ascertained. I don't spend a lot of time looking at tortoise x-rays. The first pictures you posted looked like a tortoise penis if I ever saw one.

I didn't see it out the day before at all, but I did see it the following day, Thursday afternoon. it was somewhat dry and dirty at that point. I started the sugar treatment that evening, following another training at 4 a.m. and another at 6 a.m.

The sex was ascertained first that the organ didn't look like an average cloaca. They also mentioned that her plastron is completely flat, which is true, also that the length of her tail was so short. I guess it will be a mystery until Dex is bigger.

 

[Blakem]

When I took a young female YF tortoise to my vet because of a prolapse she told me (and I can't use her exact words/thoughts because I'm not totally cognizant of tortoise anatomy) you can't tell male from female organs by scoping or through an X-ray. It was something about the way the penis is positioned inside the tortoise that makes it hard to know if it's male parts or female parts. I thought my YF was male and that it was the penis that was prolapsed, but it turns out she was egg bound and it was her female parts that were prolapsed. The vet was able to get it back inside and stitched, and eventually lots and lots of little pebbles came out, along with the eggs.

Tricky stuff. Thankfully, there was no pebbles. There's definitely no way there's eggs either. I definitely read through you talking about your yellow foot tortoise story the bunch of times. Interesting stuff.

 

[HLogic]

The sugar soaks are used to reduce the swelling, hopefully causing the organ to be easier to go back in. The sugar soaks didn't cause the extrusion, they allowed for the build up of bacteria. The bacteria caused what eventually looked like bad scabbing on the affected area. Would a saline soak be drinkable? It seems like it may promote dehydration, even if I provide a water container in my bathroom.

In either case, sugar or salt, the objective is to provide a hypertonic solution so that the water from the swollen part is drawn out into the solution thus reducing the swelling. My point was that sugar provides bacteria with a food source. Salt doesn't. No, the saline would not be drinkable but it would not support bacterial growth either.

 

[Blakem]

What do you guys think of this makeshift area? My dad brought it off the ground, it's laid with plastic, pond liner inside and it's easy to clean with a hose. The piece to the right is removable so I can just spray it out, and it'd a sight barrier. I think this will be good. In only bee one day, but it's already barely out. The skin definitely needs to heal.

 

[Prairie Mom]

What do you guys think of this makeshift area? My dad brought it off the ground, it's laid with plastic, pond liner inside and it's easy to clean with a hose. The piece to the right is removable so I can just spray it out, and it'd a sight barrier. I think this will be good. In only bee one day, but it's already barely out. The skin definitely needs to heal.

Great job! You're such a devoted caregiver!

 

[christinaland128]

What she said! ^^^

 

[Blakem]

Thank you very much! I do want the best for all of my animal's.

 

[TigsMom]

Blake, I'm thinking you need to write to Merriam Webster and give them a new twist on the definition of Dexterity. Hoping Dex (or Dexterity) is healed and happy soon.

 

[Blakem]

I think she's happy to be out of the vet and back in the sun where she belongs. She's been sitting here quite some time. I know it looks small, but it's better than the bathroom! Her area extends another 14 feet or so. She's starting to grow out if it.

 

[Yvonne G]

Did they ever determine why she prolapsed in the first place?

 

[Blakem]

@Yvonne G Not yet. I'm waiting to collect a stool sample so they can check it. That may help determine, or rule out, parasites.