SeaWorld prepares to put trainers back in water with killer whales

[Jacqui]

This thread is very interesting for a lot of us, but unfortunatly some people made it into a debate. In my opinion, if you do not care about this cause (about orcas and dolphins kept in captivity) why put your 2 cents?! I like it when Kalina puts update on what is happening and I am sure I am not the only one .

Isa, I can tell you why I did, I simply got tired of the posting of information from other activist sites, the biased information given in them, and the constant negative things being said about SW for one. Following with your thoughts on why put in your two cents worth, Isa if I posted to somebody that they should keep their Hermanns in a bowl of water for a we without letting them get out of the water at all, would you just ignore it or would you put your two cents worth in?

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The life expectancy argument is full of holes. Nobody knows what percentage of baby whales make it to adulthood. I would guess that a baby whale has a much better chance of survival at Sea World than it does in the wild. With many, many species, a tiny percentage of them make it to adult size (tortoises are a perfect example). I doubt whales are any different.

Thank you for this part. That is why I asked what is the life expectancy of wild compared to captivity, because I too think they would be "safer" in captivity, thus have a longer life then average in the wild, just not as natural of one... just like our tortoises.

Please tho, stay away from the personal comments about other members.

 

[Kalina]

Stop Debating, we're not allowed to do that!!! Just post informational facts.

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You know what, it's funny how people react to things... I can go right back to another thread of the same nature where Candy is repeatedly asking for something, anything that is positive regarding captivity of marine mammals, still to this day nobody has posted a darn thing, not one thing... However, they have been to this thread where people are happily posting info to one another (because afterall, the people posting on this particular thread share the same interest)... Then, you get a few people who don't agree with any of this info, come on the thread with their "humor" to stir the pot!!!... Then, the whole thread then comes under the big red letters "WARNING" because those who don't agree with any info posted here was bored with talking about tortoises and decided to rant here... Correct me if I'm wrong but, last time i looked we had freedom of speech? Isn't it the people who never come on this thread usually that are debating?

 

[Jacqui]

Stop Debating, we're not allowed to do that!!! Just post informational facts.

Okay....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/22/tech/main6890126.shtml

http://www.newser.com/story/112549/new-zealand-euthanizes-48-beached-whales.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110204/ap_on_re_as/as_new_zealand_whale_stranding


Wow! Look at how many died in just those few hours. No where do I see that many lives lost while in captivity in just a few days time....

Those are informational facts, life in the wild can be just as deadly. Perhaps if they had captured those whales, they might still be alive right now and helping us to learn how to help them survive better in the wild, instead of dead.

 

[Kalina]

Are you a moderator for this site?

 

[Isa]

This thread is very interesting for a lot of us, but unfortunatly some people made it into a debate. In my opinion, if you do not care about this cause (about orcas and dolphins kept in captivity) why put your 2 cents?! I like it when Kalina puts update on what is happening and I am sure I am not the only one .

Isa, I can tell you why I did, I simply got tired of the posting of information from other activist sites, the biased information given in them, and the constant negative things being said about SW for one. Following with your thoughts on why put in your two cents worth, Isa if I posted to somebody that they should keep their Hermanns in a bowl of water for a we without letting them get out of the water at all, would you just ignore it or would you put your two cents worth in?

Jacqui, my message was not for you. I really think that everyone has the right to have an opinion. When I said "why put your 2 cents" I was talking about some people who insults other members or just make fun of some member's opinion. I would not like the thread to become a debate because I like reading the info Kalina post and I believe in this cause.

To answer your question if you would say that about Hermanns, I would not be the only one putting my 2 cents, Hermy and Popcorn would come in too lol.

 

[Kalina]

You want me to compare the number of deaths of 80 pilot whales that beached themselves, (when there's thousands of them in the wild) to the deaths of Orcas in captivity? Last year SW had a few in a short time period, Couple of months? Can't remember, wasn't it 4 orca deaths when they own like 27 of them? Thousands of Pilot whales-80 beached... Twenty something captive Orcas, 4 deaths, do the math. No one is arguing that Orcas don't die in the wild, everything dies... But to think they survive longer in captivity is wrong. They suffer stress related illness all the time.

 

[Jacqui]

Isn't it the people who never come on this thread usually that are debating?

Just clarifying...

If your including me, I have read this thread from the beginning. Are you saying only folks who have posted from day 1 are allowed to become active in this thread?

 

[Isa]

WARNING!


This thread is about to be shut down. This is NOT the debate section, but that is where this entire thread should be going.

Pleaseee, can we all take the warning seriously and stop the debate.

 

[Jacqui]

You want me to compare the number of deaths of 80 pilot whales that beached themselves, (when there's thousands of them in the wild) to the deaths of Orcas in captivity? Last year SW had a few in a short time period, Couple of months? Can't remember, wasn't it 4 orca deaths when they own like 27 of them? Thousands of Pilot whales-80 beached... Twenty something captive Orcas, 4 deaths, do the math. No one is arguing that Orcas don't die in the wild, everything dies... But to think they survive longer in captivity is wrong. They suffer stress related illness all the time.

Kalina, if I say 14 wild whales dies last night due to tooth issues, can you prove me wrong? No you can't, no more then you can tell me how many whales there are currently in the wild. Nor can you tell me last year how many whales were born in the wild and how many of those whales are alive today. I used the above information to show how some whales have died recently. I can't show or prove numbers on the wild ones, because they aren't nice enough to send up death notices. They simply just disappear and are never noticed.

---

This thread is very interesting for a lot of us, but unfortunatly some people made it into a debate. In my opinion, if you do not care about this cause (about orcas and dolphins kept in captivity) why put your 2 cents?! I like it when Kalina puts update on what is happening and I am sure I am not the only one .

Isa, I can tell you why I did, I simply got tired of the posting of information from other activist sites, the biased information given in them, and the constant negative things being said about SW for one. Following with your thoughts on why put in your two cents worth, Isa if I posted to somebody that they should keep their Hermanns in a bowl of water for a we without letting them get out of the water at all, would you just ignore it or would you put your two cents worth in?

Jacqui, my message was not for you. I really think that everyone has the right to have an opinion. When I said "why put your 2 cents" I was talking about some people who insults other members or just make fun of some member's opinion. I would not like the thread to become a debate because I like reading the info Kalina post and I believe in this cause.

To answer your question if you would say that about Hermanns, I would not be the only one putting my 2 cents, Hermy and Popcorn would come in too lol.

See you answered your own question about why folks can't just keep passing over this thread.

 

[Kalina]

No not saying that at all, I'm saying we were all happy just posting info for one another then all of a sudden a few people who say they have no interest in this topic or haven't got the time to talk/debate/research or take part is discussion come on here and start with their "Humor", sarcastic remarks, name calling...etc, but yet the people who have been happily posting info here are reading the "warning" posts left by you? So if I go on a tortoise thread running my mouth, you'll close that one too right?

 

[Jacqui]

No not saying that at all, I'm saying we were all happy just posting info for one another then all of a sudden a few people who say they have no interest in this topic or haven't got the time to talk/debate/research or take part is discussion come on here and start with their "Humor", sarcastic remarks, name calling...etc, but yet the people who have been happily posting info here are reading the "warning" posts left by you? So if I go on a tortoise thread running my mouth, you'll close that one too right?

If you start name calling and such on ANY thread, yes you will be warned, as I did here. We seldom close threads without first giving several warnings. We try to get discussions going again WITHOUT the personal remarks made against each other.

 

[Isa]

You want me to compare the number of deaths of 80 pilot whales that beached themselves, (when there's thousands of them in the wild) to the deaths of Orcas in captivity? Last year SW had a few in a short time period, Couple of months? Can't remember, wasn't it 4 orca deaths when they own like 27 of them? Thousands of Pilot whales-80 beached... Twenty something captive Orcas, 4 deaths, do the math. No one is arguing that Orcas don't die in the wild, everything dies... But to think they survive longer in captivity is wrong. They suffer stress related illness all the time.

Kalina, if I say 14 wild whales dies last night due to tooth issues, can you prove me wrong? No you can't, no more then you can tell me how many whales there are currently in the wild. Nor can you tell me last year how many whales were born in the wild and how many of those whales are alive today. I used the above information to show how some whales have died recently. I can't show or prove numbers on the wild ones, because they aren't nice enough to send up death notices. They simply just disappear and are never noticed.

---

This thread is very interesting for a lot of us, but unfortunatly some people made it into a debate. In my opinion, if you do not care about this cause (about orcas and dolphins kept in captivity) why put your 2 cents?! I like it when Kalina puts update on what is happening and I am sure I am not the only one .

Isa, I can tell you why I did, I simply got tired of the posting of information from other activist sites, the biased information given in them, and the constant negative things being said about SW for one. Following with your thoughts on why put in your two cents worth, Isa if I posted to somebody that they should keep their Hermanns in a bowl of water for a we without letting them get out of the water at all, would you just ignore it or would you put your two cents worth in?

Jacqui, my message was not for you. I really think that everyone has the right to have an opinion. When I said "why put your 2 cents" I was talking about some people who insults other members or just make fun of some member's opinion. I would not like the thread to become a debate because I like reading the info Kalina post and I believe in this cause.

To answer your question if you would say that about Hermanns, I would not be the only one putting my 2 cents, Hermy and Popcorn would come in too lol.

See you answered your own question about why folks can't just keep passing over this thread.

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Jacqui, I would say something because some people who knows you are a good and knowledgeble keeper would listen to you, but do you have an orcas in your backyard? no! Do I have one orcas in my backyard? no! It is a cause, you believe in it, or you dont. If you dont, what does it do to you if Kalina and some of us believe in the cause? Nothing. So why keep debating?

 

[Kalina]

No not saying that at all, I'm saying we were all happy just posting info for one another then all of a sudden a few people who say they have no interest in this topic or haven't got the time to talk/debate/research or take part is discussion come on here and start with their "Humor", sarcastic remarks, name calling...etc, but yet the people who have been happily posting info here are reading the "warning" posts left by you? So if I go on a tortoise thread running my mouth, you'll close that one too right?

If you start name calling and such on ANY thread, yes you will be warned, as I did here. We seldom close threads without first giving several warnings. We try to get discussions going again WITHOUT the personal remarks made against each other.

Ok, for example, i go on a popular thread about torts that everybody enjoys talking to one another on, sharing ideas on how to better care for torts, and I call them names, that thread will be closed down just because of me?
Because that's what's happening on this thread... There's a few people who enjoy this thread, then there's those who don't agree with anything wrote here, but come here with their sarcasm.. Personally, I have no interest in torts, couldn't give a toss about them, that's why i never go on the thread dedicated to them...

 

[Jacqui]

Jacqui, I would say something because some people who knows you are a good and knowledgeble keeper listen to you, but do you have an orcas in your backyard? no! Do I have one orcas in my backyard? no! It is a cause, you believe in it, or you dont. If you dont, what does it do to you if Kalina and some of us believe in the cause? Nothing. So why keep debating?

I guess because for one, I am trying to see her point of view. I feel the information she is giving out is flawed. Because of that I wanted to know some facts. Isa, I am just not the type who would sit back and watch somebody jump off a bridge, because it is after all not my problem or my cause as you so put it. For you Isa, I will make myself less of a person in my eyes and pretend all is well with the world, even tho it does hurt me to know you do not believe folks should be able to question information given in any thread.

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Personally, I have no interest in torts, couldn't give a toss about them, that's why i never go on the thread dedicated to them...

I was going to leave this thread permanently, but while posting my leaving comment to Isa, I read what you had posted in the mean while.

Now why does somebody join a forum that is about tortoises, if they don't care about them? Excuse me...give a toss about them?

 

[TylerStewart]

Just because I post with sarcasm (sometimes) doesn't mean I'm not making a valid point. Whether you agree with my opinions or not, you don't know that I'm wrong.

Kalina, if I say 14 wild whales dies last night due to tooth issues, can you prove me wrong? No you can't, no more then you can tell me how many whales there are currently in the wild. Nor can you tell me last year how many whales were born in the wild and how many of those whales are alive today. I used the above information to show how some whales have died recently. I can't show or prove numbers on the wild ones, because they aren't nice enough to send up death notices. They simply just disappear and are never noticed.

Eeeexactly. Nobody knows squat about how many of them die in the wild, and I'm more convinced than ever that the life expectancy of a wild whale is shorter than a captive one, all things considered (babies dying, mass beachings, etc). They probably beach themselves all the time in areas where people aren't right there to try to save them. There's no way to prove the life expectancy of them in the wild. It's a big deal when they die in captivity only because a handful of people make it a big deal, and because they are well known and named animals.

 

[Kristina]

Personally, I have no interest in torts, couldn't give a toss about them, that's why i never go on the thread dedicated to them...

There isn't a THREAD dedicated to tortoises. It is an entire FORUM. Apparently you missed that when you registered at www.TORTOISEforum.org

You expect us to respect YOU and YOUR cause, but you could "give a toss" about our tortoises? You call other people inhumane, but you admit yourself that you have a turtle that you have had for over three years and yet know NOTHING about?

You keep your turtle in a tank in your house, yet rave about the Orcas in tanks at SeaWorld?

I am absolutely flabbergasted.

 

[ChiKat]

It seems like those who are “pro Seaworld” have admitted that they don’t care enough or “have the time” to research the subject.
They’re admitting they aren’t educated on the topic…so HOW can they say the orcas are better off in captivity, if they know nothing about them?
Asking questions and wanting to know more is one thing, but there should absolutely be no debate.
To suggest that orcas are better off in captivity is laughable. Let's just keep all wild animals in controlled pens! So humane!

Seaworld is doing this for profit- not for the well-being of the whales. You simply cannot logically argue that.

 

[Kalina]

No, I don't care for you respect and I don't either need it or want it... I don't go to tort threads and talk because i don't care for them... I joined this forum because it had an orca thread (in which I am very interested in) I didn't see in the rules that i couldn't join because of that??
From what I've seen on this thread is simply bullying, agree with me or I will shut your thread down... I don't doubt that people have the opposite opinion as me, but lately, I've not really posted opinions as much as posted links, info or news.

And as with my Turtle, sorry to inform you, I didn't go out and buy a turtle, or mistreat any turtle... Fortunately for the turtle in question I took it because it's owner left it to die... My Turtle is clean and well fed and as soon as I find a home for him where they know more about them than I do, well that's where he will live. I don't and never have said i was a turtle expert, they're not my animal of choice.

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It seems like those who are “pro Seaworld” have admitted that they don’t care enough or “have the time” to research the subject.
They’re admitting they aren’t educated on the topic…so HOW can they say the orcas are better off in captivity, if they know nothing about them?
Asking questions and wanting to know more is one thing, but there should absolutely be no debate.
To suggest that orcas are better off in captivity is laughable. Let's just keep all wild animals in controlled pens! So humane!

Seaworld is doing this for profit- not for the well-being of the whales. You simply cannot logically argue that.

I agree.. and another issue being, people warn us not to debate, then go and do the very thing they told us not to do... Amazing!!

 

[TylerStewart]

No, I don't care for you respect and I don't either need it or want it... I don't go to tort threads and talk because i don't care for them... I joined this forum because it had an orca thread (in which I am very interested in)

I think I found what you are looking for:

http://forums.treehugger.com/

 

[ChiKat]

You might as well lock the thread.
This has turned into:
Facts About Orcas Suffering in Captivity vs. I don't care/I am offended/I am still going to Seaworld/Let me attack you for something unrelated to this topic.
I don't even understand how there can be a debate or argument.
I have googled "orcas SHOULD be kept in captivity" and tried to find logical arguments. ANYTHING that suggests it's more humane for them to be kept in an aquarium. I have found nothing.

People will believe what they want to believe. Might as well put up the blinders to make ourselves feel better about humanity, right?