SeaWorld prepares to put trainers back in water with killer whales

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Madkins007

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Wow. Look at all these pots and kettles laying around here. Someone could get hurt.
 

Yvonne G

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Kalina said:
From what I've seen on this thread is simply bullying, agree with me or I will shut your thread down... I don't doubt that people have the opposite opinion as me, but lately, I've not really posted opinions as much as posted links, info or news.

Kalina: I think you've missed the whole point of the moderator's threatened action. She was actually RESPECTING your right to post the thread and warning those "bullies" who came on with sarcasm that if they didn't stop, the thread would have to be shut down. That's what we do. We try to keep peace. Did you want us to allow the "bullies" to disrupt your thread?
 

ALDABRAMAN

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TylerStewart said:
Kalina said:
No, I don't care for you respect and I don't either need it or want it... I don't go to tort threads and talk because i don't care for them... I joined this forum because it had an orca thread (in which I am very interested in)

I think I found what you are looking for:

http://forums.treehugger.com/
I think you need to unregister and post your causes in another place. This forums foundation is tortoises, everything else is a spin off of that interest. You do not share the common foundation, please go!
 

Robert

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TylerStewart said:
Kalina said:
No, I don't care for you respect and I don't either need it or want it... I don't go to tort threads and talk because i don't care for them... I joined this forum because it had an orca thread (in which I am very interested in)

I think I found what you are looking for:

http://forums.treehugger.com/

Tyler:
:D. I thought that was a joke and didn't expect to find an actual live forum when I clicked the link. Too funny. I think you get a free bottle of patchouli oil when you join!



Kalina said:
“The scientific research . . . suggests that dolphins are ‘non-human persons’ who qualify for moral standing as individuals,” he said.

No offense Kalina (since this is just a quote and not your words) this might be one of the strangest comments I have ever read. Am I considered a "non-dolphin whale" because I like to swim?

Just for the record, I don't consider dolphins to be "non-human persons", I consider them to be dolphin like dolphins.

I think the larger issue here is that this is a forum designed for tortoise owners to come together and discuss tortoise husbandry and related topics. As part of the forum, there is an "off topic" section which allows members of the forum to learn more about each others interests. So that being said, it is a little strange that someone would join a tortoise forum because she wants to discuss whales and why they shouldn't be kept at Sea World. The oddity of this is further demonstrated when the person goes so far as to say that she "doesn't give a toss" about tortoises.

This forum is about husbandry. Your posts are about animal keepers exploiting the animals they keep. Tortoises, orcas, whatever.... The two interests really seem to conflict with one another.

So my question is, why would someone come to a husbandry forum and then preach only about animal captivity cruelty?

I respect your right to want to protect animals, especially whales and dolphins. We've all seen The Cove. It was a well made documentary. But why on the tortoise forum?
 

Jacqui

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Okay everybody, whether you like it or not, whether you understand it or not, it's not the point. Kalina is a member of this forum and as such has all the same rights as everybody else. She has the right to be posting about the whales. That is the topic of this thread, whales at SeaWorld. Now let's stay on topic, please.

Sorry one other point I need to make, nobody has the right to ask or tell another member they need to leave this forum. Please refrain on any thread from doing that again. Okay now can we get back to tortoises :tort: and in this case, whales? Thank you.
 

Candy

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Wow I just read through all of these posts and I am actually shocked at how Kalina was treated. You know with every post I read to my husband he asks me why I stay on here and lately I can't respond to him because I'm wondering the same thing myself. To anyone who doesn't understand what a "Sea World" thread might contain, it contains things about whales not tortoises. I should have thought that you all would have understood our point at the point that you read Kalina's statement about how she really doesn't care about tortoises. I see a lot of you took offense to that statement. Figure it out, it's because you love tortoises. Now can you see why Kalina had come on here when she googled whales and found my thread. She loves whales. Get the connection? A lot of you don't care about killer whales and had no trouble by stating that fact, and yet we didn't insult you (well maybe Tyler Stewart) but that's a given. Like Kalina said we asked you to give us the side of captivity that was a positive and to this day I've seen nothing to support it. Just because a bunch of pilot whales beached themselves gives humans no right whatsoever to trap them in nets and pull the babies from their mothers and brutally kill others so that we can go to marine parks and watch them perform tricks, and might I add if you don't think this is how it is done then I can't help you. We put information here so people can actually come on and learn something, instead they come on to argue. It will do me no good to post anything else since it's obvious that you don't care to learn. Unfortunate really because animals always interest me, no matter what kind they are. I am not blinded by my own guilt that is why I will not take my children to Sea World or any other marine parks. I want my children to have to best possible information and facts that they can have and also to have the best resources for education. I realize that there are those who do not share this with me, but that's o.k. because the way I figure it "When the student is ready the teacher will appear." There's a lot of students on here that will never be ready I can see that now. :(
 

Angi

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I have to admit to not being very educated about Killer Whales, though I think I have learned a bit here and as for dolphins I learned more in Hawaii than my many trips to Sea World. I believe there is good and bad at Sea World. Dolphins and Orcas should probably not be kept there. But they do take in any hurt sea animal and nurse it back to health. This happends a lot in San Diego. I have never liked the Shamu or Dalphin shows. I just thought they were boring. My favorites were the Sea Lion and Otter show, the shark encouter, the penguins and Polar Bears. I also like the place were you can pet the sting rays. I probably will not go to Sea World again for a VERY long time. It is very expensive and my kid are not interested in going.
 

TylerStewart

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Candy said:
A lot of you don't care about killer whales and had no trouble by stating that fact, and yet we didn't insult you (well maybe Tyler Stewart) but that's a given.

Candy, I'm sorry our relationship didn't work out, but you're going to have to get over me one of these days. I'm a happily married man, and you're seemingly a happily married woman. Your fascination with me needs to end, as I see no future between us. I'm sorry it didn't work out. I hope that in the future you can put more of your enthusiasm into another man. I think you'll sleep better at night if you do.
 

Candy

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Tyler I can tell that you need some sleep by the way you're fantasizing. Now that you have (what is it now 7 kids?) :D or something like that, it's obvious that you couldn't research if you wanted to. You no longer have the time or probably the energy so that's why we're doing the research for you. Now you just have to take the time and effort to read it. :p
 

Torty Mom

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Holy moly this was a bit of a surprise, came on for an update and I see things have gotten crazy!!

Here is my .02 :D Kalina is as passionate about her whales and such as we are about torts and turts. We are exactly the same yet different! :D

Tyler and Candy you guys are toooooo FUNNY!!!
 

Kalina

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@CT... A google search on Orcas brought me here, that's why I joined, I was interested in a thread left by an already existing member, the fact that it was a tort forum never entered my mind. The Orca thread left by Candy is in "Off Topic" section, I had no idea people here would take such great offence to having such a subject on their forum.

It's as if I joined here one day and started a bunch of threads that nobody was interested in? The thread was already here with people discussing, I simply joined it, I have started a couple more threads that people have also chatted on.

Then what has surprised me the most is how people post on them declaring their lack of interest on the subject? I don't understand why people would do that? That would be like me picking a random thread about Torts and declaring my lack of interest, would there be a point? Obviously the people posting on it would have common interest in it. A poster wrote that I personally don't share a common interest and that i should post my cause somewhere else? But this is not entirely accurate as there is people here who I share interest in Orcas and Dolphins with. If there's no common interest, why does this particular thread have the second most hits on the entire page? (with the exception of the welcome tread) Either people are not being honest and DO have a common interest in this subject, or they simply want to debate on the subject, I'm wondering which it is??

I am not going to appologize for not being that interested in torts, I didn't come here to talk about torts... But I respect that others do and that this is the foundation of this forum, that's why i don't read or write on any of the tort threads, and i certainly wouldn't dream of going on them to voice my displeasure of others having an interest in them.

Sorry for the late reply, I've been away from my comp for a few days.
 

Jacqui

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Of okay, I think everybody has had a chance for their say. The topic in this thread is Sea World and them once more putting trainers in with the whales. Let's keep it on that subject okay?
 

Angi

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Hi Kalina, It seems you are here to try and educate people about your cause. I have to say I have learned a little from your posts. And they have made me think a little more about Orcas and dolphins. I have not read all your posts as they are sometimes very long and not about my passion torts. But I do care about all animals. I am curios and maybe I missed it in an earlier post, where are you from? What sparked your interest in sea life? Have you been to Sea World? Arte you interested in all sea life or just orcas and dolphin? Do you think it is wrong to put trainers in with orcas because of the danger to the trainer or the whale?
BTW~ If you spent a little time with a tort I bet you would fall in love:)
 

Kalina

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Hi Angi, I'm currently living in the Midwest... I've always had an interest in Marine Life but not to this extent, Whales have always fascinated me but i never really thought about the problems they face before. I've always been interested in Dolphin and orca intelligence, it amazes me that these animals are close to us on the intelligence level... I've been reading about the Dolphin cerebral Cortex (which is similar in size to ours) which suggests that they have a level of intelligence comparable to our own. I love what scientists are now doing to examine the levels... This means Dolphins and Orcas feel pain, grief, happiness, depression and a lot of other emotions... They know how to reason, they have some idea of right from wrong and they plan and think about their day, I just find this amazing.
With regards to my stance on captivity, I never really gave it much thought to be honest, I never thought they were unhappy in captivity, I knew nothing of Whaling, I didn't know Dolphin Slaughter existed, ...until I visited SeaWorld.

I was going on vacation and part of the package was a visit to SW, I was so excited... I had learned so much on Dolphin and Orca behavior, on their Social Order...etc, i couldn't wait to see them up close and personal. We even paid extra money to do a "Swim with the Dolphins" session...

I did an interaction with a Dolphin named Stieme... Stieme had this big smile on his face and was very eager to please, he was showing me how he could kiss my feet under the water, how he could spit water at me and splash me, we shook hands and we hugged and he showed me just how high he could jump, with each trick he showed me, his trainer would throw a fish at him, I remember thinking whether he must get bored doing the same thing everyday for a line of different people, I was just one of thousands that Stieme had entertained.
I then went to another pool which had a lot of Dolphins in it, this was a "Feed the Dolphins" program... The pool was open for the public to put their hands in the water and touch the Dolphins. But, for some strange reason all the Dolphins were huddled together in the center of the pool, they wouldn't come to the edges where the people were waiting, I just remember looking at them all, how they didn't have the room to swim without humans reaching out and touching them, so, in the middle (out of arms reach) they stayed. Witnessing this gave me a sense of sadness and i didn't understand why. It was after watching the Killer Whale Show "Believe" that I knew something was very wrong... All the research and reading I'd done on Dolphin/Orca behavior, all the wildlife documentaries I'd sat thru, all the books I'd read telling me exactly how these magnificent mammals operate on a daily basis, all the websites, all the questions I'd asked The Center for Whale Research, none of it was apparent at SW, there I was looking at these animals in the flesh and blood, but they didn't behave the same as I had learned they did, I found it all very sad which then prompted me to dig into the captivity industry, and wow, what a can of worms that is.

I used to be a Humane officer and i was called out to a Tort HBC (hit by car)... When I got there it was huge, but i car had gone over it and it's shell was broken open, I'll always remember that Torts face as i put him in my van... He had to be put to sleep but for some reason it really bothered me what had happened to this poor animal... It's sad with any animal, but that Tort and a deer are the two that I'll remember forever.
 

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I am so glad I got to learn more about you and what sparked your passion. I think I have said this a few times, but will say it again. I have lived in San Diego all but two years of my life so have been to Sea World enough times to concider it boring. My kids are past the age of being fasinated by that stuff and the crowds are awful. When ever I have been to the dolphin pool I think they swim around, but I never stayed long because I really hate crowds holding stinky fish. The most I ever learned about dolphins was on a snorkling boat in Hawaii.
That was amazing. I have to say I did not get in the water with the dolphins, but watched from the boat. My husband did though. I went snorkling off a reef of fish and where there was a sea turtle.
I DID NOT know anything about the killing of dolphins in Japan until I read it here though I don't think there is anything I can do about it.

Good luck to you with your efforts to help dolphins and orcas!
 

Kalina

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That must have been a fantastic experience for you and your husband (watching the wild Dolphins)... They have so much personality and they're so curious about us... If you have pics I would love to see them (if you can post them here, not sure?) There's a place in western Australia (Monkey Mia) where the Dolphins will come up onto the beach to interact with people, would love to go there. A lot of researchers go there now to document natural behavior, the Dolphins seem to want to cooperate and don't mind humans following them.
 

ChiKat

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When I was 14 I went on a whale watch in Maui :) It was very cool to see the whales in their natural habitat. I think that taught me more than I would have learned watching a whale perform tricks at Seaworld :p
 

Isa

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We can go see whales in a city called charlevoix in the province of Quebec, my hubby and I wants to go this summer :). I can't wait, I am sure it is going to be super interesting.
Kalina, I find your story very interesting and glad you shared it with us :)
Angie and Katie, if you have pics, I would love to see them too :)
 

ChiKat

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My pictures were back in the days of point-and-shoot cameras with no zoom. I dug out the scrapbooks to post pictures here, but the pictures consist of the water with a small speck in the corner- look, a whale tail! :p
 
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