Hate that people buy Sulcatas and dont know how to car for them

[wellington]

I use city water. If I collected it, it would have worse stuff in it. My tortoise is not dried out.

 

[Tom]

If the guy has them outside in CA with out a proper heated shelter, that's not cool.

If he's feeding it fruity pebbles tortoise food, that's probably not too cool either.

If its eating piles of dog crap everyday... Do we really need to argue whether or not this is a good thing?

Of course there are a lot of ifs here, but why are you guys giving Waterboy such a hard time when this sure SEEMS like a case of somebody not taking very good care of their tortoise?

And Eric, we're all tired of hearing about how you don't soak your tortoises. You would not have the same results if you lived here in CA where it hardly ever rains and when it does rain its during our cold winters. It's great that you live where it rains all the time and it's super humid. What works for you there is not going to work for most of the rest of the country.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

I sympathize with Waterboy's sentiment. One of the reasons I left this forum was that I was so tired of seeing "Help, my tortoise is sick" or "My tortoise passed away" threads, especially in the Sulcata section. The only more common thread title was "Hi, I'm a new Sulcata owner and brand new to tortoise keeping!"
And the beat goes on...

 

[chris_m90731]

I sympathize with Waterboy's sentiment. One of the reasons I left this forum was that I was so tired of seeing "Help, my tortoise is sick" or "My tortoise passed away" threads, especially in the Sulcata section. The only more common thread title was "Hi, I'm a new Sulcata owner and brand new to tortoise keeping!"
And the beat goes on...

Although fairly new here, I've noticed the same thing. Everyone seems so thoroughly giddy about their brand new baby sulcata. Which is a good thing, but we all know what happens to the majority of these tortoises: they end up @ an adoption society or six-feet under.

And I've also noticed a certain militancy when it comes to rearing these animals -- I've raised my sulcata from a golf ball-sized hatchling to a 90+beast. He eats poop. Rarely drinks water. Gets alota orchard grass and good ole CA sun. He's nearly 20 years old; healthy and happy (I can only theorize - but he runs to me, loves his neck scratched, etc.)

Good on Waterboy for adopting the animal, but he needs to chill regarding the husbandry. It sounds a bit naive...

 

[youngyoshi]

Im sorry a bit of topic but some of these poop comments are the funniest things ive ever read

 

[Tom]

Well that is a pretty negative view and I don't share it. Sure some of them don't make it due to breeder error of keeping them far too dry in their first few weeks. We see Craigslist ads from time to time of ignorant people that feed only lettuce or don't let them outside ever. But to say the "majority"? That is not accurate at all. I know of dozens of sulcatas out there and the vast majority still live with the people who raised them, as yours does, and I don't know of any that have died, outside of the cases I have seen here on the forum that are aobviously due to them being incorrectly started as if they were desert animals when they are not.

What is this "militancy" you speak of? Are you talking about the old schools crowd that says to keep them dry on rabbit pellets or the new school crowd that says to let babies have a friggin drink of water once in a while?

 

[EricIvins]

If the guy has them outside in CA with out a proper heated shelter, that's not cool.

If he's feeding it fruity pebbles tortoise food, that's probably not too cool either.

If its eating piles of dog crap everyday... Do we really need to argue whether or not this is a good thing?

Of course there are a lot of ifs here, but why are you guys giving Waterboy such a hard time when this sure SEEMS like a case of somebody not taking very good care of their tortoise?

And Eric, we're all tired of hearing about how you don't soak your tortoises. You would not have the same results if you lived here in CA where it hardly ever rains and when it does rain its during our cold winters. It's great that you live where it rains all the time and it's super humid. What works for you there is not going to work for most of the rest of the country.

So these animals need to be soaked if they have access to water? I'll call BS on that any day......Any Tortoise that is not chronically dehydrated knows what water is and how to utilize it......What is the point of force soaking animals that do not need it?

 

[Jacqui]

So these animals need to be soaked if they have access to water? I'll call BS on that any day......Any Tortoise that is not chronically dehydrated knows what water is and how to utilize it......What is the point of force soaking animals that do not need it?

I happen to agree pretty much with your point.

 

[wildponey21]

i'm right there with you i have two sullys but i did reserech for 2 years before got them. It also took me two years to talk my mom into letting me have them.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I think that soaking your tortoise, especially in its first few years of life is not going to hurt your tortoise and it could do it a lot of good. I have seen pictures of old tortoises that have very bad to moderate pyramiding and they were when everyone said that they did not need water and that too much of it was bad for them and I have seen pictures of tortoises with relatively little to no pyramiding that had these forced soaks with constant access to water and I for one think that the tortoises with little to no pyramiding show the proof that forced soaks and constant access to water is a good thing and can only help the tortoise. It is just my opinion, but I think that knowing it won't hurt and does help should be a reason to soak them and give them water.

---

I also disagree that it is BS that a tort does not need soaks. My torts dry out quickly and if it wasn't for the "force soaking"s that I give my torts, along with the constant mistings than my torts would be dry and would have no way to get moist because they do not spend all day in their water dish. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I agree with Tom and countless other people on this forum that soakings are beneficial to sulcata tortoises. Whether we agree or disagree with each other methods I think we can all agree that we love our torts !

 

[EricIvins]

I think that soaking your tortoise, especially in its first few years of life is not going to hurt your tortoise and it could do it a lot of good. I have seen pictures of old tortoises that have very bad to moderate pyramiding and they were when everyone said that they did not need water and that too much of it was bad for them and I have seen pictures of tortoises with relatively little to no pyramiding that had these forced soaks with constant access to water and I for one think that the tortoises with little to no pyramiding show the proof that forced soaks and constant access to water is a good thing and can only help the tortoise. It is just my opinion, but I think that knowing it won't hurt and does help should be a reason to soak them and give them water.

---

I also disagree that it is BS that a tort does not need soaks. My torts dry out quickly and if it wasn't for the "force soaking"s that I give my torts, along with the constant mistings than my torts would be dry and would have no way to get moist because they do not spend all day in their water dish. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I agree with Tom and countless other people on this forum that soakings are beneficial to sulcata tortoises. Whether we agree or disagree with each other methods I think we can all agree that we love our torts !

---

Again - WHAT does forced soaking do that a waterbowl does not? It is not going to encourage a hydrated Tortoise to drink more than a bowl of clean water would correct?

A hydrated Tortoise is not going to have any problems pooping or recognizing what water is, so again, what does it accomplish? Or is soaking just a captive bandaid for a bigger husbandry problem that no one is going to tackle in drier environments? We are not talking about chronically dehydrated animals - soaking them or encouraging them to drink copious amounts of water can throw them into renal failure fairly quick.......If the animals are "drying out" too quickly, the husbandry need to be adjusted to compensate - Seems simple enough right?

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I am not sure what a forced soaking does that is beneficial but it does seem to be beneficial. I am no expert but was putting in my two cents because I have observed that my tortoises like their "force soaking"s. I can't escape their shells drying out because they are babies and are mainly kept indoors where the lights that I have to keep them warm dry their shells. The humidity is 81% right now and without misting them their shells get dry. What is a better way? They like their soaks, I think their soaks are good for them so what would you do? Do you never soak yours? Why give your sulcatas fish? What is your reasoning? You seem to be very Spockish and want hard facts to back up everything so what is your rational on soakings, and feeding fish? What do the soakings hurt? Why forgo the soakings if every one is benefiting? Maybe you should try them with yours, it might surprise you how much they like it.

 

[Masin]

Like others have said, my humidity in Florida alone is ridiculously high, inside our indoor enclosure is coco coir, a humidifier and misting, higher humidity there too. Yet her shell still appears dry thanks to indoor lighting on those days the weather doesn't permit her to be out long. I soak, it doesn't harm them, she stretches her legs out, snoozes a bit, drinks, pees and poos and seems pretty darn relaxed. While I can't say why it's good, I'd rather air on the side of caution then regret it later.
But what do I know, I'm just a <1 year new sulcata owner.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I do not mean to be rude to EricIvins, I just don't know the particulars of what I do, I just know mine seem better off for them, the soaks. I would like to know what EricIvins would do differently. Everything I have read here seems to back up the opinion to soak and I have not read anywhere here that would have you do differently so I wonder, is there a better way to keep them from getting dry? Is there a better way to prevent pyramiding? If there is I would appreciate your opinions on that. Sorry if I came off as being a little bit rude.

 

[Masin]

I do not mean to be rude to EricIvins, I just don't know the particulars of what I do, I just know mine seem better off for them, the soaks. I would like to know what EricIvins would do differently. Everything I have read here seems to back up the opinion to soak and I have not read anywhere here that would have you do differently so I wonder, is there a better way to keep them from getting dry? Is there a better way to prevent pyramiding? If there is I would appreciate your opinions on that. Sorry if I came off as being a little bit rude.

You didn't come off as rude at all. I think you're like me and assumed since seasoned breeders and the majority follow the same practices that we are doing what is best yet welcome anything else that's proven to be better.

 

[tortadise]

The best way I can describe the benefits of all around hyrdration, is on different levels. Especially with young tortoises they grow at such an accelerated rate, that their are different elements of keeping them hyrdrated. One of those elements or factors is soaking numerous times a day. Others are constant humidity, allowing the hyrdration to keep with the growth of the baby in an ambient circumstance. humidity will keep moisture(ie hyrdration) to its skin, carapace, and exterior make up. Soaks keep the internal as well as the exterior hyrdrated. In the wild most "dry" climate or topographical "desert" species (sullies really arent desert at all, they come from grassland savanas) hatch out during the wet seasons in the location where they are found. As well as living in conditions that are more moist and humid. Essentially they are living in a micro climate. The grasses and burrow they live in while so small is like a forest to them, so they get a totally different exposure to elements that we as a large animal would see as wow its hot and dry. But if you were to place your hands and get into the lower systems of grasses and bushes where these wee ones are growing up in it would be very humid, wet condition in relation to their size. Its like the rainforest they have diffrent levels of tree canopies, and heights which in turn make mircro climates at each level of canopy. This is just on a smaller scale. hence the total hydration method, of keeping the constant soaks, as well as the humidity up for an all around hrydrated baby.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

That is a really great explanation. Thank you! It would appear, then, that in the wild they are living in a constant soak with the high levels of humidity. Would that be correct to assume?

 

[Tom]

If the guy has them outside in CA with out a proper heated shelter, that's not cool.

If he's feeding it fruity pebbles tortoise food, that's probably not too cool either.

If its eating piles of dog crap everyday... Do we really need to argue whether or not this is a good thing?

Of course there are a lot of ifs here, but why are you guys giving Waterboy such a hard time when this sure SEEMS like a case of somebody not taking very good care of their tortoise?

And Eric, we're all tired of hearing about how you don't soak your tortoises. You would not have the same results if you lived here in CA where it hardly ever rains and when it does rain its during our cold winters. It's great that you live where it rains all the time and it's super humid. What works for you there is not going to work for most of the rest of the country.

So these animals need to be soaked if they have access to water? I'll call BS on that any day......Any Tortoise that is not chronically dehydrated knows what water is and how to utilize it......What is the point of force soaking animals that do not need it?

I am shocked that someone with your experience level does not get it. Maybe I give you too much credit...

There are myriad reasons why a tortoise might not use an available water source. The water might be too hot from sitting in the sun, a larger or more intimidating animal was near the water source so the meeker one avoids it, size, depth or shape water bowl that the tortoise is not comfortable with, etc... I know of lots of new keepers that have totally inappropriate pet store bowls. Their bowls stay clean, but the people sometimes assume that the tortoise is drinking while they are not watching or at work. Often the tortoises aren't. Regular soaks would make absolutely certain that a tortoise in this situation stayed hydrated, while your method would not.

If I lived in FL or Louisiana or Mississippi or somewhere with that sort of regular rain and humidity, I would be a lot less concerned about soaking too older animals too. But I don't, and neither do a lot of other people. So soaking a tortoise regularly is a good way to ENSURE they are staying hydrated instead of leaving it to chance and hoping for the best in regards to their instincts. Frankly Eric, I find this upsetting because you are trying to convince people that it is "BS" to make SURE their tortoise is hydrated. Again, I think it is very narrow-minded for you to assume that what is working for you, in your yard, is going to work for everyone in the entire country. This is ridiculous. If they stop soaking because of what you say here, some of their tortoises may come to harm from long term chronic dehydration. This seems unlikely in Miami or New Orleans, but very likely in Phoenix. If they continue soaking, as I advocate, no harm will come to any of them. If you started soaking your tortoises, no harm would come to them. They'd just be sitting in warm water for 30 minutes, or whatever, and then they'd be on their way... I bet some days they would be sitting in their soaking tubs and get rained on.

Eric, You seem to know a lot about tortoises, but you don't share much info about what you have or what your background is. You choose to chime in from time to time, and in most cases make some good points. I value your input and often agree with you. Have you ever attempted tortoise keeping outside of Florida? Like here in CA or AZ, for example? Its a whole different ball game. I'm not trying to convince you to start soaking your adults, but I am asking you to stop telling other people not to soak their tortoises occasionally. It will do no harm if they don't need it, but it might do a lot of good if they do need it.

 

[Jacqui]

I may be not understanding Eric's writing correctly, but I don't see him saying not to "occasionally" soak a tortoise, more he is stating that you should not HAVE to force a soak several times a day or even daily as some folks seem to think they should have to do because it seems to be the current popular belief by some. He is also saying, check your environment if your raising your tortoise so it "dries" out as quickly as some are implying their animals are doing. Eric, I applaud and thank you for being brave enough not to blindly follow nor to turn a blind eye and just pretend you agree with the herd mentality.

 

[Masin]

The best way I can describe the benefits of all around hyrdration, is on different levels. Especially with young tortoises they grow at such an accelerated rate, that their are different elements of keeping them hyrdrated. One of those elements or factors is soaking numerous times a day. Others are constant humidity, allowing the hyrdration to keep with the growth of the baby in an ambient circumstance. humidity will keep moisture(ie hyrdration) to its skin, carapace, and exterior make up. Soaks keep the internal as well as the exterior hyrdrated. In the wild most "dry" climate or topographical "desert" species (sullies really arent desert at all, they come from grassland savanas) hatch out during the wet seasons in the location where they are found. As well as living in conditions that are more moist and humid. Essentially they are living in a micro climate. The grasses and burrow they live in while so small is like a forest to them, so they get a totally different exposure to elements that we as a large animal would see as wow its hot and dry. But if you were to place your hands and get into the lower systems of grasses and bushes where these wee ones are growing up in it would be very humid, wet condition in relation to their size. Its like the rainforest they have diffrent levels of tree canopies, and heights which in turn make mircro climates at each level of canopy. This is just on a smaller scale. hence the total hydration method, of keeping the constant soaks, as well as the humidity up for an all around hrydrated baby.

What a great read.