Has Anyone Used Panacur?

[Bryan]

The white stuff in the poop are urates. The diet consists of too much fruit which can cause runny stools. Add more leafy greens. Mine love to graze in the grass, up the fiber intake.

EXACTLY Matt!

First off there is little ( by a Vet ) medically that can be done for a redfoot [ or any tort ] a few months old. When "we" concentrate MORE on getting the "diet & habitat" right and less on "subjecting" them to being scrutinized by a Vet.. the sooner the NATURAL healing system will be able to kick in and care for itself.

Do I have anything against Vets? No.. when they are used for "INJURIES". MOST of the healing can and will be accomplished by the tortoise itself once it's comfortable and stress-free...... and in this case eating properly! You don't feed cabbage and banana to redfoot tortoises!

I'll say it again...... "I don't have these issues with my redfoots". I simply practice "HUSBANDRY" that has proven to work since 1996.

See and follow the links - http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

Terry K

It is of little surprise that animals that are happy have less chance of succumbing to parasites and other health issues. However Terry if you are so sure that parasite issues are all on husbandry, why don't you find an animal that is full of parasites and introduce him or her to your hatchlings and let me know how that turns out. If your hatchlings eat the feces of the "sick" animal and 6 months later they are fine and dandy then you can say without a shadow of a doubt that your way overcomes parasites, if not it kind of just sounds like you haven't had any issues with parasites in your time as a redfoot keeper. If you start out with healthy animals it makes all the difference in the world IMO.

 

[turtletary]

The white stuff in the poop are urates. The diet consists of too much fruit which can cause runny stools. Add more leafy greens. Mine love to graze in the grass, up the fiber intake.

EXACTLY Matt!

First off there is little ( by a Vet ) medically that can be done for a redfoot [ or any tort ] a few months old. When "we" concentrate MORE on getting the "diet & habitat" right and less on "subjecting" them to being scrutinized by a Vet.. the sooner the NATURAL healing system will be able to kick in and care for itself.

Do I have anything against Vets? No.. when they are used for "INJURIES". MOST of the healing can and will be accomplished by the tortoise itself once it's comfortable and stress-free...... and in this case eating properly! You don't feed cabbage and banana to redfoot tortoises!

I'll say it again...... "I don't have these issues with my redfoots". I simply practice "HUSBANDRY" that has proven to work since 1996.

See and follow the links - http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

Terry K

It is of little surprise that animals that are happy have less chance of succumbing to parasites and other health issues. However Terry if you are so sure that parasite issues are all on husbandry, why don't you find an animal that is full of parasites and introduce him or her to your hatchlings and let me know how that turns out. If your hatchlings eat the feces of the "sick" animal and 6 months later they are fine and dandy then you can say without a shadow of a doubt that your way overcomes parasites, if not it kind of just sounds like you haven't had any issues with parasites in your time as a redfoot keeper. If you start out with healthy animals it makes all the difference in the world IMO.

You are convinced you have redfoots with parasites.....

Not once did I say "my way cures parasites".

Terry K

 

[Bryan]

The white stuff in the poop are urates. The diet consists of too much fruit which can cause runny stools. Add more leafy greens. Mine love to graze in the grass, up the fiber intake.

EXACTLY Matt!

First off there is little ( by a Vet ) medically that can be done for a redfoot [ or any tort ] a few months old. When "we" concentrate MORE on getting the "diet & habitat" right and less on "subjecting" them to being scrutinized by a Vet.. the sooner the NATURAL healing system will be able to kick in and care for itself.

Do I have anything against Vets? No.. when they are used for "INJURIES". MOST of the healing can and will be accomplished by the tortoise itself once it's comfortable and stress-free...... and in this case eating properly! You don't feed cabbage and banana to redfoot tortoises!

I'll say it again...... "I don't have these issues with my redfoots". I simply practice "HUSBANDRY" that has proven to work since 1996.

See and follow the links - http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

Terry K

It is of little surprise that animals that are happy have less chance of succumbing to parasites and other health issues. However Terry if you are so sure that parasite issues are all on husbandry, why don't you find an animal that is full of parasites and introduce him or her to your hatchlings and let me know how that turns out. If your hatchlings eat the feces of the "sick" animal and 6 months later they are fine and dandy then you can say without a shadow of a doubt that your way overcomes parasites, if not it kind of just sounds like you haven't had any issues with parasites in your time as a redfoot keeper. If you start out with healthy animals it makes all the difference in the world IMO.

You are convinced you have redfoots with parasites.....

Not once did I say "my way cures parasites".

Terry K

I am convinced because I have spoken to other veteran redfoot people and that is their belief. The way that I took your post was that since their diet is wrong I am not getting proper results for my animals. That said I've actually tried to follow your hatchling diet as close as I can without treating it religiously. So your opinion also holds weight with me and I am looking at gaining as much info as I can on the matter.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Bryan-Before I get a little off topic here I wanted to check if you have any further questions on this subject, and is there anything we can do to help? I agree with Yvonne to try and find anyone qualified to do a fecal test for your tort.

White stuff in poop is not automatically urates. There are other things it could be, some of them harmless and some serious. I would not make that blanket statement.

I think a fecal test is cheap piece of mind for a relatively easy to fix potential problem. A good read is "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Roger Klingenberg. I agree with him that although reptiles in the wild can have high parasite loads and be healthy, this is likely because they are nomadic and do not re-infect themselves. In contrast to a captive animal who has the stress plus the enclosed space, a combination from which parasite symptoms tend to appear not long after arriving in a new home (even for CB babies). I have been told that all torts (even several generation CBs who received them from their mothers) will have some type of parasite/s and the question is how high the numbers are. I disagree that reducing the stress will take away the parasite. This will only drop the numbers low enough for the tort to be symptom free (or for the owner to not notice symptoms), if you can even accomplish this. Why not both get rid of the parasite and try to reduce stress? This will also ensure the tort does not re-infect themselves with their own fecal matter (very easy for them to do) and have this problem sneak up on the owner again, especially if it was to happen at a time the tort was having another health problem like a RI. I don't want to start a fight here, but am just speaking my mind. I am open to some clean debate on this subject. Best wishes.

 

[spuds]

Bryan, when I saw your torts last you had a batch of CH that had runny stool and another batch that had well formed fecal deposits. Is this still the case? If so, are both groups being fed the same diet? Can you think of any differences in your husbandry that may account for the way each group is responding to husbandry?

After viewing a fecal sample I do not believe the color of the stool is due to urates. In my meager experience I'd have to say it looks mucinous in origin. It seems like the body is producing an excess amount of mucin possibly to relieve it self of undesirable microbial life. IMHO

 

[Bryan]

Bryan-Before I get a little off topic here I wanted to check if you have any further questions on this subject, and is there anything we can do to help? I agree with Yvonne to try and find anyone qualified to do a fecal test for your tort.

White stuff in poop is not automatically urates. There are other things it could be, some of them harmless and some serious. I would not make that blanket statement.

I think a fecal test is cheap piece of mind for a relatively easy to fix potential problem. A good read is "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Roger Klingenberg. I agree with him that although reptiles in the wild can have high parasite loads and be healthy, this is likely because they are nomadic and do not re-infect themselves. In contrast to a captive animal who has the stress plus the enclosed space, a combination from which parasite symptoms tend to appear not long after arriving in a new home (even for CB babies). I have been told that all torts (even several generation CBs who received them from their mothers) will have some type of parasite/s and the question is how high the numbers are. I disagree that reducing the stress will take away the parasite. This will only drop the numbers low enough for the tort to be symptom free (or for the owner to not notice symptoms), if you can even accomplish this. Why not both get rid of the parasite and try to reduce stress? This will also ensure the tort does not re-infect themselves with their own fecal matter (very easy for them to do) and have this problem sneak up on the owner again, especially if it was to happen at a time the tort was having another health problem like a RI. I don't want to start a fight here, but am just speaking my mind. I am open to some clean debate on this subject. Best wishes.

Thanks, a very well thought out and insightful post. I am trying to do both, improve their habitat as well as treat for a parasitic infestation.

Bryan, when I saw your torts last you had a batch of CH that had runny stool and another batch that had well formed fecal deposits. Is this still the case? If so, are both groups being fed the same diet? Can you think of any differences in your husbandry that may account for the way each group is responding to husbandry?

After viewing a fecal sample I do not believe the color of the stool is due to urates. In my meager experience I'd have to say it looks mucinous in origin. It seems like the body is producing an excess amount of mucin possibly to relieve it self of undesirable microbial life. IMHO

Yes, it is still the case, the diets are the same except that of late the ones with the runny stools have been given more fruit than the others as they have lesser appetites.

 

[Redfootedboxturtles]

So basicly no one answered your question. " Has Anyone Used Panacur? "

I have used reptile xtra as a prevent on incoming tortoises. I have no idea if it works becasue I use it as a suppliment/prevent with out fecal tests.

 

[Yvonne G]

After viewing a fecal sample I do not believe the color of the stool is due to urates. In my meager experience I'd have to say it looks mucinous in origin. It seems like the body is producing an excess amount of mucin possibly to relieve it self of undesirable microbial life. IMHO

If this is the case, Panacur is not the de-worming agent to use. What you will want to use is Flagyll.

 

[Bryan]

After viewing a fecal sample I do not believe the color of the stool is due to urates. In my meager experience I'd have to say it looks mucinous in origin. It seems like the body is producing an excess amount of mucin possibly to relieve it self of undesirable microbial life. IMHO

If this is the case, Panacur is not the de-worming agent to use. What you will want to use is Flagyll.

So if I do get a fecal exam done the vet will be able to tell me if it's microorganisms and then I treat it with Flagyll if that's the diagnosis? If so, what is the dosage for Flagyll? Is it as easy to get as Panacur? Thanks, Bryan

---

I see that Flagyl is a brand of Metronidazole, has anyone used it for torts before?

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, for tortoises with worm-type parasites, Panacur is the drug of choice. For tortoises with protozoan type parasites, Flagyll is the de-wormer we use. And no, we can't give you the dosage online. You need to have your tortoise weighed and get the correct dose from a vet. De-wormers are poisons, and you might easily make your tortoises sick or dead.

 

[Madkins007]

Here is the dosage right out of Mader's "Reptile Medicine and Surgery":

Metronidazole (Flagyl) is administered 50mg/kg PO q 24h x 3-5 days or 100mg/kg PO q 14-21 d with a note to administer the lower dose for more severe cases.

I do not take responsibility for anything going wrong. I am just sharing publicly available information, and I am not going to even try to translate the thing to English. Yvonne is absolutely right-this stuff is dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metronidazole