Respiratory Infection - RedFoot

[ReptileBuddies]

My redfoot has developed the symptoms of a RI and he will be going to the vet tomorrow morning. However I would like to know which antibiotics to ask for - I read about the injectable Baytril...anything else? Does anyone know the dosages? Any nebs that would help? The vet I going to has not treated torts for a long time and may be behind on the times so I would like to get my facts straight before going.
Aslan is getting set-up in a "hospital tub" in a warmer room tonight (after my work). Hopefully he starts to feel better soon! Summer is coming and I enjoy taking him outside to while I read books

 

[68merc]

My redfoot is on baytril now. I don't know the amount but its given every 72 hours for 3 weeks I think. I also have to inject 20ml of saline to make sure she is hydrated. I have a hospital tub in my kitchen, there is a heat mat underit it (from home depot for starting seeds) and. 2 lights, one for day and a black light for night heat. The thing stays about 80* all the time.

 

[dmmj]

My personal preference is to avoid injections, I prefer to administer them to any sick animals myself, now admittedly getting medication into a tortoise is not the easiest thing, but it is the way I like to do it. But batryil works fine.

 

[ReptileBuddies]

So you recommended oral Baytril?? I have no problem giving injections myself at home, I just want to use whichever route is the most effective.

 

[dmmj]

Honestly I would do what the vet suggests, I can't say which is more effective just what I use and has worked for me. I had a sick russian a few years back and I had to give nose drops twice a day and oral medication once a day.

 

[N2TORTS]

First off ... hopefuly you have sperated it from any other torts( if you have any) . The RNS is VERY Contagious within RF"s ...
Injections are fine and its best to learn how to do it yourself, if possible,it will save you trips to the vet. Also you CAN get baytril online, and after years of paying vet costs just to get a script' ..I went around that and order my own now..... Oral can be tricky too...as they usally are not to keen on the stuff and it taste nasty!... (yes Ive tasted it) ...Most of the time they will retract their head and its hard to get the to open their mouth. You can with practice learn how to grab a tort behind the head, so it cannot retract back into its shell. A large gauge "glue type" syringe works best . You can dull the end of it , to prevent poking. Also you can get the plastic type (most common) .. but you need a long extension to use as a force tool to pop into the torts mouth . Artist paint mini stainlees spreaders work well for that ... or you can whittle down a popsicle stick . What ever you do ... make sure you sterilze all of your equipment and hands.
BY THE WAY :
The BAYTRIL injection *STINGS* like a son of a gun ...! And they know when its coming after the first few times. It does help after the injection to massage gently and apply warm compress.
Keep warm ... if even higher than norm ... but well hydrated ( not just soaking ) .. make sure he is drinking, or you'll have to force feed him H2o. Baby pedilte works well to if he gets that ill and will not drink on his own ..
Hope your guy gets better ~

JD~

 

[ReptileBuddies]

He is in his own 2 story enclosure upstairs and the others torts are downstairs, however I was going to put his hospital tote in the room that is heated extra BUT that is also the room the other torts are in - so I'm assuming that is a bad idea. Can he stay in his same enclosure if we clean it and put paper towels down instead of bedding? I worry about the humidity already and paper towels won't help that. He has a place to soak, but that is only a few inches deep. Should we do nightly warm soaks now?? He is eating/drinking/pooping/peeing; he has just been a bit slower the past few days. Yesterday his eyes were swollen and watery and he has some clear discharge (mucous consistency) from his nose today. He feels cold, but his cage is in the 80s and we just replaced his CHE. He is sneezing some and whistling (however he has whistled since we got him) He is an older fellow - exact age unknown, but we were told in the 40s when we adopted him less than 2 years ago. And I am assuming wild caught.
I know how he got the RI - his old CHE had apparently stopped working so the bottom of his cage got chilled. He likes to sleep in the bottom so I'm assuming that it cold without him noticing. We figured it out because Aslan started to sleep in his upstairs.

N2Torts - do you know the dosages by weight for torts for Baytril??

Thanks for all your help guys! I really appreciate it!

 

[Yvonne G]

Actually, the best thing for your vet to do is take a smear for testing so you know which antibiotic works best on the kind of bug your tortoise has. It just so happens that Baytril is usually what works best on RI, but if you can afford it, get a smear. Maybe the tortoise really doesn't have an infection. No way to know without a test.

 

[ReptileBuddies]

I'm sorry if this sounds silly but a smear of what? The discharge? I can't really ask him to cough stuff up LOL
I'll was going to ask for an x-ray of his lungs. I would really like to see how conjested he is.
It would be great if he didn't really have an infection!

 

[exoticsdr]

My redfoot has developed the symptoms of a RI and he will be going to the vet tomorrow morning. However I would like to know which antibiotics to ask for - I read about the injectable Baytril...anything else? Does anyone know the dosages? Any nebs that would help? The vet I going to has not treated torts for a long time and may be behind on the times so I would like to get my facts straight before going.
Aslan is getting set-up in a "hospital tub" in a warmer room tonight (after my work). Hopefully he starts to feel better soon! Summer is coming and I enjoy taking him outside to while I read books

We recently had many threads on this very subject not too long ago and I replied several times with info on different antibiotics and their efficacy...you should be able to do a search and find just what you are looking for.....keep us posted.

 

[Madkins007]

We recently had many threads on this very subject not too long ago and I replied several times with info on different antibiotics and their efficacy...you should be able to do a search and find just what you are looking for.....keep us posted.

Would you be willing to recap them into an article for the Articles section? I think a lot of people would appreciate it.

As long as I a asking, maybe how to get the most from your vet or the vet visit?

 

[ReptileBuddies]

A recap of those threads would be amazing! I have been using the search function, but it get confusing trying to read for information inbetween others conversations...so sorry for asking again. I just had specific questions that I wanted answered without spending an hour sifting through posts...

 

[exoticsdr]

Here is a partial posting of a previous baytril discussion:
---hope it helps...understand this was a discussion about drugs used for diarrhea, but you can see certain drugs are better for respiratory problems because of the spectrum of activitiy.

Pharmacology lesson: taken from my post to "antibiotic names"

Antibiotics from different classes, i.e penicillins, aminoglycocides, cephalosporins, all work differently as to how they attack and kill a
given bacteria

Baytril or enrofloxacin- great spectrum of activity but are not effective in anaerobic infections, but it is painful on injection, can cause skin discoloration and sloughing if not given in the muscle, can also cause stomach upset and cartilage abnormalities in young animals if used too often. (Generally a great respiratory antibiotic and is widely available, easy to dose and that is why most vets use it...comfort level, but overused and bugs are becoming resistant to it).

Amikacin- great for aerobic gram-negative infections, not so good for aerobic gram-positive bacteria, no anaerobic activity....so also a good respiratory agent if the bug is of the gram-negative variety. However, is EXTREMELY hard on the kidneys and can cause kidney failure in animals that already have a pre-existing kidney problem and in young animals---MUST BE WELL HYDRATED AT ALL TIMES. Also has been know to cause hearing loss.

Naxcel or ceftiofur- great spectrum of activity of both gram-neg and positive aerobes and anaerobes and used in respiratory disease very often. Pain on injection and must be in the muscle, also has been know to cause kidney problems in healthy animals.

Now, if there is a problem in the intestine that could possibly be causing the prolapse and it can be fought with antibiotics, first we have to choose the right antibiotic:

Baytril----NO GOOD-- has little anaerobic activity and since we are dealing with the intestine and a very strongly anaerobic environment not my first choice...great for areas with bugs that need and thrive in oxygen rich environments, like respiratory infections

Amikacin--ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!-- NO ANAEROBIC activity at all...now if you have a respiratory problem caused from a dusty enclosure and lots of dried poop being flung around, I'm all for it but NOT in this case.

Ceftiofur--would be a good choice but has it's problems.



Read more: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Baytril--22211#ixzz1IhBki38B[hr]
I'll try to put something together in the very near future as a quick reference for what antibiotic would be efficacious in different situations.

We recently had many threads on this very subject not too long ago and I replied several times with info on different antibiotics and their efficacy...you should be able to do a search and find just what you are looking for.....keep us posted.

Would you be willing to recap them into an article for the Articles section? I think a lot of people would appreciate it.

As long as I a asking, maybe how to get the most from your vet or the vet visit?

 

[N2TORTS]

Usual dosage is 5mg a day or 10mg every 3 days.
As for the baytril, I had a talk with an microbiologist once about baytril. Baytril was never actually designed to be given intravenously. It's actually an oral medication. So it can have some harsh effects on the kidneys when given intravenously (specifically if given in the back legs.) It's also a very thick medicine and it burns a good bit. And like I mentioned It's pretty painful. I've had to give baytril injections too and when doing so i can witness exhibited signs of pain at the injection leg. If need be and you use injections a key thing is to alternating legs between injections.

JD~

 

[exoticsdr]

Usual dosage is 5mg a day or 10mg every 3 days.
As for the baytril, I had a talk with an microbiologist once about baytril. Baytril was never actually designed to be given intravenously. It's actually an oral medication. So it can have some harsh effects on the kidneys when given intravenously (specifically if given in the back legs.) It's also a very thick medicine and it burns a good bit. And like I mentioned It's pretty painful. I've had to give baytril injections too and when doing so i can witness exhibited signs of pain at the injection leg. If need be and you use injections a key thing is to alternating legs between injections.

JD~

No offense JD, but this post is exactly why we should not be posting dosages on the forum because almost nothing in this post is accurate. Baytril and other antibiotics (for the most part) are dosed on a milligram per kilogram basis and then at an hourly or daily(multi-daily) interval. Baytril is given once daily in many species and twice daily in many others. There is an injectable form that was designed to be given IM (intramuscularly) but can and is given IV in serious cases and given under very specific conditions and then only if monitored closely. In torts, I've never heard anyone suggesting an IV administration and if given SC (subcutaneously) it can cause skin problems(very basic..pH of 11)...given IM, it is painful but effective but not at the dosages that you suggest...(unless your tort weights 2.2 pounds, in which case you dosage is partially correct.) The injectable form can also be given PO (orally...but it tastes like hell). Again, this is not meant to upset you and I'm not trying to use any specific tone in this message, so please don't take it wrong, but this is why you never see me post dosages and I deal with them on a daily basis.
Doc

 

[N2TORTS]

your right its not an IV drug .....never said it was! And a Doctors dosage was told and giving to me by a DOCTOR. I also have had MANY DOCTORS... who dont know $$$T ! ... They do trial and error just as one can do at home ... with either positive or negative results. I dont promote * do it your selfers* .. when it comes to Meds and health care ...but I also think Vets/ docs alike .. scam the heck out of the common folk , and honest why should I pay somone to sign a piece of paper for a dam prescripiton, after a 30 second visit ( when I knew what was wrong in the first place) for a misley 250 bucks......( $ 80 office visit ??? HA HAHA ) .... and the animal ends up dying anyhow. I know one of the best in the business Iam sure you've herd of him. Dr. TOM GREEK . Also my father ya might want to look im up ... Dr. Pops dosnt deal with torts... but people, including bio chemistry , microbio .. ya know that groovy stuff...! So .. I have a little clue .. about what iam talking about . I was just answering a simple question to a forum member.
JD~

PS ..MAYBE YOU SHOULD OFFER FREE**** SERVICE FOR FORUM MEMEBERS!

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

I looked up Dr. Tom Greek, is your dad an exotic pet vet because that is all I could find. If so, that is really lucky for you! I was wondering how you knew so much, what an amazing resource you have.

I think our Doc Westin does offer his advice for free. I have asked him questions via PM and never once gotten a bill. Just to be clear my questions were not about antibiotics as i would have to rely on my wonderful vet for that.

 

[N2TORTS]

I looked up Dr. Tom Greek, is your dad an exotic pet vet because that is all I could find. If so, that is really lucky for you! I was wondering how you knew so much, what an amazing resource you have.

.... Misunderstanding kiddo ... Dr. Greek is not my Dad...but I do know him personally, as well as my Pops.

JD~

 

[matt41gb]

your right its not an IV drug .....never said it was! And a Doctors dosage was told and giving to me by a DOCTOR. I also have had MANY DOCTORS... who dont know $$$T ! ... They do trial and error just as one can do at home ... with either positive or negative results. I dont promote * do it your selfers* .. when it comes to Meds and health care ...but I also think Vets/ docs alike .. scam the heck out of the common folk , and honest why should I pay somone to sign a piece of paper for a dam prescripiton, after a 30 second visit ( when I knew what was wrong in the first place) for a misley 250 bucks......( $ 80 office visit ??? HA HAHA ) .... and the animal ends up dying anyhow. I know one of the best in the business Iam sure you've herd of him. Dr. TOM GREEK . Also my father ya might want to look im up ... Dr. Pops dosnt deal with torts... but people, including bio chemistry , microbio .. ya know that groovy stuff...! So .. I have a little clue .. about what iam talking about . I was just answering a simple question to a forum member.
JD~

PS ..MAYBE YOU SHOULD OFFER FREE**** SERVICE FOR FORUM MEMEBERS!

JD, I find this response a bit rude. Dr. Todd was being very nice in his response to you. He was nothing but respectful, and you fired back hotly at him. I don't get it, and I personally don't appreciate it. I'm sure Dr. Todd doesn't either. He did not belittle you in any way, shape, or form, so I think you owe him an apology for sure.

-Matt

 

[N2TORTS]

your right its not an IV drug .....never said it was! And a Doctors dosage was told and giving to me by a DOCTOR. I also have had MANY DOCTORS... who dont know $$$T ! ... They do trial and error just as one can do at home ... with either positive or negative results. I dont promote * do it your selfers* .. when it comes to Meds and health care ...but I also think Vets/ docs alike .. scam the heck out of the common folk , and honest why should I pay somone to sign a piece of paper for a dam prescripiton, after a 30 second visit ( when I knew what was wrong in the first place) for a misley 250 bucks......( $ 80 office visit ??? HA HAHA ) .... and the animal ends up dying anyhow. I know one of the best in the business Iam sure you've herd of him. Dr. TOM GREEK . Also my father ya might want to look im up ... Dr. Pops dosnt deal with torts... but people, including bio chemistry , microbio .. ya know that groovy stuff...! So .. I have a little clue .. about what iam talking about . I was just answering a simple question to a forum member.
JD~

PS ..MAYBE YOU SHOULD OFFER FREE**** SERVICE FOR FORUM MEMEBERS!

JD, I find this response a bit rude. Dr. Todd was being very nice in his response to you. He was nothing but respectful, and you fired back hotly at him. I don't get it, and I personally don't appreciate it. I'm sure Dr. Todd doesn't either. He did not belittle you in any way, shape, or form, so I think you owe him an apology for sure.

-Matt

Matt I honestly dont care what you think ...and an apology why? If he wants to give his advice he could do so , or does that cost an office visit ? I dont know him , he dosnt know me ... either do you for that matter . Because I dont post a DVM after my name , or belong to your RF fan club, you really should stick to your own debates.I DID not fire back or belittle anyone, I simply answered a question ...and if you or DOC check up on it... its 5mg.... you and others in here are not the only ones who raise RF's within the US.