3 Killer Whales die within 4 months at Sea World

[ChiKat]

I couldn't see the new posts either until just now. It would say on the main page that the last post was from Candy, but her post wouldn't show up when I actually clicked on this thread.

Now all of them are showing up!

 

[Kalina]

They took us to an area where dolphins were swiming and let us snorkle. I skipped that dive, but my husband loved it. I did the reef and the Sea Turtle dive. Anyway what amazed me about dolphins is how they move as a team. They never stop swimming. They only let half their brain sleep at a time, so they swim in a formation so the outer dolphin has the eye facing out open and the one facing in closed. Crazy huh? Well I can't see them doing that in captivity. They would need a lot of space.

You are exactly right, they close part of their brain down, stay together in a line and swim slowly at the surface when sleeping. They have to remain somewhat aware as they're conscious breathers, they don't breath automatically like us, they have to think about it. Killer Whales do the exact same thing too. So when you see pictures of Killer Whales in captivity just staying still on the surface of the pool, usually the aquarium staff will tell you they're resting, but this isn't the way they rest naturally.

 

[ChiKat]

Candy- I asked my mom for pictures from our whale watch in Hawaii, but this was before we had good digital cameras, so there is a black speck in every picture that is supposedly part of a whale In one picture I can make out a tail fin but you practically need a magnifying glass

I found pictures and a brochure from when we went to the Maui Ocean Center. They had life-sized MODELS of whales. In the brochure they state, "The animals in our care are fed according to their needs, and there are no shows. To enhance your experience, trained Ocean Naturalists share their insights through presentations at the Living Reef, Turtle Lagoon, Stingray Cove, Discovery Pool, and the Open Ocean."
Sounds a lot more ethical than Sea World, IMO

And from their website FAQ section:
Q. Do you have whales or dolphins at the aquarium?
A. At this time, it is illegal to have captive marine mammals in Maui County. If you wish to see whales or dolphins, there are several boat companies that offer such excursions, and you can see the animals in their natural environment.

Still waiting to hear about any benefits of keeping orcas in captivity...

eta: Their sea turtles are also part of a hatch-and-release program...pretty cool! Off-topic, I know

 

[Candy]

Candy, do you mean that you can't see other people's new posts? That sounds like a problem with your service or computer, and not the forum. If it was the forum then everybody or almost everybody would be having the same problem. Try cleaning the cookies on your computer.

No Kristina it's not my computer because I've seen many post about having the same problem around the same time as they were also receiving the "Error Message". Here's the one that Yvonne posted not to long ago. Someone also posted not too long ago that if they waited a day or so and tried to post on it again that all of them would pop up at the same time. Josh so far hasn't gotten back to me so I have no opinion from him on the problem. Anyway here's Yvonne's post.

emysemys Offline
old timer
*********
Posts: 10,504
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation: 40
RE: Incandescent Black Light
No this is really starting to bug me. I typed out this great big long post in response to Madkins' comment and when I hit "post reply" it came back a blank screen saying "done." And my post is gone into the nether world! Argh-h-h-h!!!

What I said was:

Please always continue to be a pest. That's how we all learn and maybe change our way of thinking.

I've not noticed any of my tortoises being restless during the night or seeming stressed at having a light on all night (black light). But I'll try to work on somehow covering the light to shade it, yet not block the heat.

How do you feel about using a red light instead of the black one? Most zoos use red at night.
Yvonne G.

 

[Candy]

That's o.k. Katie although I would have loved to see the photos I understand. I didn't know how they swam so that is very interesting to me. I saw a short video of Tillikum where they said that he was resting but it looked funny to me. He was straight up and down. So they work together in a team that's wonderful! Kalina had given me a site where they are trying to have Lolita freed to the wild. I read it and they know where her pod is so they think that unlike Keiko "Free Willy" it would be more likely that she would be o.k. It would take a while before they could attempt it, but think that it would benefit science so much if they would let her go. They could learn so much more then they know now about them. So I myself think this is a good venture and am willing to join along in the fight to free Lolita.

 

[Kalina]

That's o.k. Katie although I would have loved to see the photos I understand. I didn't know how they swam so that is very interesting to me. I saw a short video of Tillikum where they said that he was resting but it looked funny to me. He was straight up and down. So they work together in a team that's wonderful! Kalina had given me a site where they are trying to have Lolita freed to the wild. I read it and they know where her pod is so they think that unlike Keiko "Free Willy" it would be more likely that she would be o.k. It would take a while before they could attempt it, but think that it would benefit science so much if they would let her go. They could learn so much more then they know now about them. So I myself think this is a good venture and am willing to join along in the fight to free Lolita.

Yes, Lolita's Mom is still alive and well and living 6 months of the year in Puget Sound WA. Her family is there, she has a younger sister now who's around the age of 10. They did recordings of her family communicating between one another and took those recording to Lolita for her to listen to, she reacted to the sounds and tried to get closer to the tape recorder. She would be an excellent candidate for rehabilitation and release, can you just imagine what a success story that would be?

With regards to keiko (Free Willy)... If a remember correctly, he spent two years in rehabilitation in a natural sea pen, then spent 5 years completely free. The sad thing about Keiko was, they couldn't locate his family, so he didn't take a place in any pod after release. His health was the best it had ever been and he had learned how to forage and eat for himself. Unfortunately, he died of Pneumonia (which is a common illness in Killer Whales)... Some people look badly upon Keiko's release because of the outcome, personally I consider it a huge success, he spent the last 7 years of his life happy and free. His release has paved the way for other Killer Whales in captivity to be given the same opportunities as he had. Lolita would do great, she'd be with her family once again.

 

[Marty333]

I live in Orlando and I went to the Seaworld Killer whale show like a month before the trainer was killed I dont think they should be keeping this creatures just to earn money. Also my neighbor use to work at seaworld and quit because they treated their animals poorly.

 

[Kalina]

I live in Orlando and I went to the Seaworld Killer whale show like a month before the trainer was killed I dont think they should be keeping this creatures just to earn money. Also my neighbor use to work at seaworld and quit because they treated their animals poorly.

I agree Marty, some animals just aren't mean't to be caged. What did your neighbor do as a job at SW? There's been quite a few ex employees who have come forward with similiar stories, it's very sad. I also heard recently that the senior Killer Whale Trainer Laura Surovik has quit the Shamu Stadium and gone to work with the Dolphins instead. There's conflicting reasons why she changed jobs, some say because of the incident involving Tilikum and the trainer Dawn Brancheau, some say she changed just before that happened... I just found it weird when I read it, as she loved working with the whales, it was her dream.

 

[Marty333]

She worked with the dolphins but switched to discovery cove because of the bad care of all the animals. Also there are no enrichments in their captivity at all it is only a big bucket of water!

 

[Yvonne G]

Gee Tom I didn't realize there's a special way of joining this forum especially if someone is posting to an "Off Topic Chit Chat",

I think what Tom was referring to was it would have been nice if Kalina had made an introduction before jumping in with both feet into a heated debate, so that we could understand a little better her qualifications.

 

[Kalina]

Gee Tom I didn't realize there's a special way of joining this forum especially if someone is posting to an "Off Topic Chit Chat",

I think what Tom was referring to was it would have been nice if Kalina had made an introduction before jumping in with both feet into a heated debate, so that we could understand a little better her qualifications.

Huh?
I didn't realize I had to make an introduction, I thought anyone could join in whenever they wanted to?

---

She worked with the dolphins but switched to discovery cove because of the bad care of all the animals. Also there are no enrichments in their captivity at all it is only a big bucket of water!

That's very sad... Although, I think Sea World and Discovery Cove are owned by the same corp, obviously there are differences in both places concerning the quality of care. From what I understand DC don't do shows, they primarily have "Swim with the Dolphins" programs available.

I don't know very much about DC, as for the size of the tanks, I believe they're more (beach like) but I presume still small in size. I've seen pictures and they have several small round pools in the back where they house Dolphins.

 

[Yvonne G]

Huh?
I didn't realize I had to make an introduction, I thought anyone could join in whenever they wanted to?

What did you think this thread was for:

http://tortoiseforum.org/Forum-Introductions

 

[Candy]

Further, you chose a very poor way to join a forum dedicated to the care and well-being of captive wild animals. When you have some tortoise info to share, then I'll happily welcome you to the forum.

This is what Tom posted. I myself found it to be quite rude and I'm surprised someone else didn't call him on it. I don't believe anyone knows of my qualifications so why would we need hers? I myself just need to ask people questions and read there answers to figure out if they have the right information or not, but first I actually have to read it and listen to what they have to say and try not to be bias when doing so.

---

I live in Orlando and I went to the Seaworld Killer whale show like a month before the trainer was killed I dont think they should be keeping this creatures just to earn money. Also my neighbor use to work at seaworld and quit because they treated their animals poorly.

Thanks for sharing your experience at Sea World. I have to comment on how cute Chevy looks in this picture. Maybe a winner for next years calendar.

---

That's o.k. Katie although I would have loved to see the photos I understand. I didn't know how they swam so that is very interesting to me. I saw a short video of Tillikum where they said that he was resting but it looked funny to me. He was straight up and down. So they work together in a team that's wonderful! Kalina had given me a site where they are trying to have Lolita freed to the wild. I read it and they know where her pod is so they think that unlike Keiko "Free Willy" it would be more likely that she would be o.k. It would take a while before they could attempt it, but think that it would benefit science so much if they would let her go. They could learn so much more then they know now about them. So I myself think this is a good venture and am willing to join along in the fight to free Lolita.

Yes, Lolita's Mom is still alive and well and living 6 months of the year in Puget Sound WA. Her family is there, she has a younger sister now who's around the age of 10. They did recordings of her family communicating between one another and took those recording to Lolita for her to listen to, she reacted to the sounds and tried to get closer to the tape recorder. She would be an excellent candidate for rehabilitation and release, can you just imagine what a success story that would be?

With regards to keiko (Free Willy)... If a remember correctly, he spent two years in rehabilitation in a natural sea pen, then spent 5 years completely free. The sad thing about Keiko was, they couldn't locate his family, so he didn't take a place in any pod after release. His health was the best it had ever been and he had learned how to forage and eat for himself. Unfortunately, he died of Pneumonia (which is a common illness in Killer Whales)... Some people look badly upon Keiko's release because of the outcome, personally I consider it a huge success, he spent the last 7 years of his life happy and free. His release has paved the way for other Killer Whales in captivity to be given the same opportunities as he had. Lolita would do great, she'd be with her family once again.

From what I'm reading she would be an excellent candidate for release Kalina. I think if they had known where Keiko's pod was it would have been that much better for his release.

---

Gee Tom I didn't realize there's a special way of joining this forum especially if someone is posting to an "Off Topic Chit Chat",

I think what Tom was referring to was it would have been nice if Kalina had made an introduction before jumping in with both feet into a heated debate, so that we could understand a little better her qualifications.

jjjjjjjj

---

Gee Tom I didn't realize there's a special way of joining this forum especially if someone is posting to an "Off Topic Chit Chat",

I think what Tom was referring to was it would have been nice if Kalina had made an introduction before jumping in with both feet into a heated debate, so that we could understand a little better her qualifications.

Well I tried 3 times to post something to this thread but it's not coming through. I even tried posting to Yvonne post by putting jjjjj, but nothing came through. I will try again to post tonight and see if it works. I think Josh is right and we'll have to continue this thread by starting a new one.

 

[terryo]

That's o.k. Katie although I would have loved to see the photos I understand. I didn't know how they swam so that is very interesting to me. I saw a short video of Tillikum where they said that he was resting but it looked funny to me. He was straight up and down. So they work together in a team that's wonderful! Kalina had given me a site where they are trying to have Lolita freed to the wild. I read it and they know where her pod is so they think that unlike Keiko "Free Willy" it would be more likely that she would be o.k. It would take a while before they could attempt it, but think that it would benefit science so much if they would let her go. They could learn so much more then they know now about them. So I myself think this is a good venture and am willing to join along in the fight to free Lolita.

What a wonderful thing if this could happen, Candy!

 

[Marty333]

Well Tom it seems that your emotions are actually getting the best of you on this thread.

That's just ridiculous. This has nothing to do with emotions, except yours which are the basis for all of your points. As for your citations, someone earning a PHD does not make them all knowing and unbiased. For an example of incompetent advice from a doctor, look at some of the veterinary advice given for tortoises. Most vets are still telling people that torts pyramid due to excess protein in the diet.

I bring up the trainers and my friends because they work with these animals ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. Don't you think they know more than someone who read a book or went to college? They know these animals better than they know their own families sometimes. They sleep poolside whenever there is a problem or imminent birth.

What I'm saying is that through my experiences and friends, I know more about these animals than the average person, but I don't know enough about what it takes to make them "happy" or meet their needs to be making the judgement calls and blanket assertions that you are making. You know even less than me.

And with all due respect to TerryO, all of our torts have huge natural ranges in the wild. You think your 12" tort has enough room in your back yard? He'd be cramped in a 10 acre pen compared to the wild. I don't see where the disconnect is between YOUR captive wild animals and Sea World's captive wild animals is. If you say that some were wild caught, well so were some of yours and their parents. It is completely hypocritical to point the finger at Sea World for housing captive animals that you decided, based on unfounded emotion, shouldn't be captive, while you have an assortment of captive animals for your own entertainment in your own back yard! If you think the rank and file at Sea World and similar parks is in it for the money, then you are ridiculously ignorant. They get paid squat and have terrible benefits. This is a primary reason that I decided not to throw fish and blow a whistle for a living. I love the water. I love training. And I love cetaceans. But I didn't want to live a life of poverty, so I chose to work elsewhere. Those people do it out of passion and love for the animals. I think its terrible that you would take away their meager lively-hood, their reason for living, and a tremendous educational opportunity for the general public, because you have decided to have a hypocritical animal rightist slant.

Remember, the reason we are all here on this forum is because we all have captive wild animals in our own homes. There is no difference in your CDT or redfoots and my sulcatas and leopards and Sea World's Killer Whales. Same concept, same difference. You and me selfishly keep ours hidden away in our backyards while at least Sea World, the other parks and the zoos are taking terrific steps toward educating the public and conservation for these animals in the wild. There is a reason why captive animals are called "ambassadors" for their species.

Killer Whales can kill you more likely than tortoises they are predatory and I think they should belong in the wild! And your friends should know that the best life for them is a life in the wild. Tortoise are different
they thrive in captivity and are more domesticated than a killer whale.

 

[DeanS]

Well Tom it seems that your emotions are actually getting the best of you on this thread.

That's just ridiculous. This has nothing to do with emotions, except yours which are the basis for all of your points. As for your citations, someone earning a PHD does not make them all knowing and unbiased. For an example of incompetent advice from a doctor, look at some of the veterinary advice given for tortoises. Most vets are still telling people that torts pyramid due to excess protein in the diet.

I bring up the trainers and my friends because they work with these animals ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. Don't you think they know more than someone who read a book or went to college? They know these animals better than they know their own families sometimes. They sleep poolside whenever there is a problem or imminent birth.

What I'm saying is that through my experiences and friends, I know more about these animals than the average person, but I don't know enough about what it takes to make them "happy" or meet their needs to be making the judgement calls and blanket assertions that you are making. You know even less than me.

And with all due respect to TerryO, all of our torts have huge natural ranges in the wild. You think your 12" tort has enough room in your back yard? He'd be cramped in a 10 acre pen compared to the wild. I don't see where the disconnect is between YOUR captive wild animals and Sea World's captive wild animals is. If you say that some were wild caught, well so were some of yours and their parents. It is completely hypocritical to point the finger at Sea World for housing captive animals that you decided, based on unfounded emotion, shouldn't be captive, while you have an assortment of captive animals for your own entertainment in your own back yard! If you think the rank and file at Sea World and similar parks is in it for the money, then you are ridiculously ignorant. They get paid squat and have terrible benefits. This is a primary reason that I decided not to throw fish and blow a whistle for a living. I love the water. I love training. And I love cetaceans. But I didn't want to live a life of poverty, so I chose to work elsewhere. Those people do it out of passion and love for the animals. I think its terrible that you would take away their meager lively-hood, their reason for living, and a tremendous educational opportunity for the general public, because you have decided to have a hypocritical animal rightist slant.

Remember, the reason we are all here on this forum is because we all have captive wild animals in our own homes. There is no difference in your CDT or redfoots and my sulcatas and leopards and Sea World's Killer Whales. Same concept, same difference. You and me selfishly keep ours hidden away in our backyards while at least Sea World, the other parks and the zoos are taking terrific steps toward educating the public and conservation for these animals in the wild. There is a reason why captive animals are called "ambassadors" for their species.

---

The role of captive wild animals in our society is awkward. We have done it for about as far back as recorded history goes, and it has become increasingly controversial. We used to do it to show off our dominion over animals, our wealth, our hunting prowness, or other forms of ego and pride. Then, it became a business- what cool things can we show that will bring you and your money to us?

Mark you make some good points. But this isn't one of them. You speculate on the whole world's reasons for keeping captive animals and I disagree. Both now and then, I think it stems more from fascination, admiration and awe, than the factors you mentioned. I didn't want a turtle at 7 years old to bring in money or have dominion over anything. I wanted it because I though it was really cool and neat. I loved my turtle, cried when he got sick and adored my time in the yard with him watching him explore.

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Killer Whales can kill you more likely than tortoises they are predatory and I think they should belong in the wild! And if your friends should know that the best life for them is a life in the wild. Tortoise are different
they thrive in captivity and are more domesticated than a killer whale.

---

Ironically, there has NEVER been a documented attack on a human by an orca in the wild...think about it!

 

[ChiKat]

Huh?
I didn't realize I had to make an introduction, I thought anyone could join in whenever they wanted to?

What did you think this thread was for:

http://tortoiseforum.org/Forum-Introductions

FWIW I never used to post introductions when I would join forums...I would just jump in and start posting. I think this is actually one of the few forums where I posted an intro right after I joined!
I just never wanted to add to the "hey I'm new here..." threads.

I think Tom's concern was more that you joined a tortoise-specific forum with no apparent desire to talk about tortoises.

Anyways, I'm glad to have you here Kalina! You are very knowledgable and I have learned a lot from your posts.

 

[Candy]

Huh?
I didn't realize I had to make an introduction, I thought anyone could join in whenever they wanted to?

What did you think this thread was for:

http://tortoiseforum.org/Forum-Introductions

The word here is "had". I didn't make an introduction to tortoise forum until almost a month after I'd started posting here. I see people posting threads all of the time and then I see moderators come in and say "Welcome to the forum" yet here I haven't seen that with Kalina only Terry and Isa and I have welcomed her. I am wondering why it's a issue anyway? What does it matter? This is a thread on Killer Whales dying at Sea World not a thread the proper way to join this forum.

 

[ChiKat]

You're right Candy, sorry to get off topic! Seems I'm good at that

 

[Kalina]

Myself and Tom had a debate about our differing opinions, this was pages ago. It sometimes got a little personal during those debates which could be the reason why they're being brought back up to the current page. Since then, the moderator posted asking us to basically keep it nice and that is what we've done. Infact, I don't think I've seen another post since by Tom on this thread. Just because we have different opinions doesn't mean my talking to Tom is off limits. Myself and Tom don't agree when it comes to this topic, but myself and Tom could totally agree on another. We both said things that could be perceived as attacking one another, but that was then and this is now, I'm a big girl and I'm not going to keep Tom at arms length because of it.

Again, with regards to the manner in which I joined this forum: I was directed right to this thread via a google search on Killer Whales. I didn't see the main page or any introduction thread. I have never joined such a message board before so I didn't realize I'd have to state my personal info and qualifications before I could post anything. But for those who are interested, I do have qualifications in Animal Welfare. This covers Animal Handling, Animal Care, Animal Medicine, Animal Behavior..etc This covered Marine Mammals, but not primarily, it focused more on land animals. I have worked for The Humane Society and been an Emergency Surgical Assistant, I've also done rehabilitation of domestic and wild animals. I was also an Animal Cruelty Investigator for 4 years. I hope to go to the UK in March 2011 to do a Marine Mammal Medic Course because I want to help with strandings and so forth, hopefully rehab eventually. I wish I had the pics of the two Wolves I helped rehab, they were beautiful, my old computer crashed with the pics and I could never retrieve them : (
And while I'm being forth coming with my personal life, my name isn't Kalina, it's my name on here only. Kalina was my favorite SW Killer Whale that died recently.

Would also like to add that Lolita has a new family member in the wild, a baby was born this summer into L Pod.