who's had enough of ball pythons?

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ra94131

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The Ball Python (substitute: Leopard Gecko, Bearded Dragon, Sulcata Tortoise, etc.) situation is unfortunate, but it makes sense. I would never keep a snake (or other reptile) the way a lot of the breeders do; it just doesn't feel right.

That said, most of the breeders I have observed have very healthy animals. I have a bigger problem with the sheer quantity produced versus the apparent demand. I don't really believe that reptiles feel "happiness", "loneliness", etc., so if the animal is kept alive and healthy by a responsible caretaker that is generally enough for me.

(On a side note, the space requirements for a Ball Python really are minimal. They are very inactive creatures and not natural "wanderers" even in their natural habitat, if their needs are satisfied. For me that is actually a huge downside. I'll take my active (albeit primarily at night) Jungle Carpet any day of the week.)
 

jtrux

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I've never had any dealings with carpet pythons, how are their personalities?
 

bmt123

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I just went to the charlotte repticon and I can count on my hand the species of lizards there. I got the only day gecko I saw there. My point is it was all geared toward ball pythons and other common snakes. Although there was a cb vine snake which was incredible to look at.
 

ra94131

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jtrux said:
I've never had any dealings with carpet pythons, how are their personalities?
The have a reputation for being "nippy", especially when they're younger, but that has not been my personal experience. Mine is a little cage defensive but never actually strikes and once you have him out he is as tame as any Ball Python I've ever seen. (Although he can be quite a bit more active/mobile than a Ball Python, especially in the evening.)
 

StudentoftheReptile

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jtrux said:
StudentoftheReptile said:
I personally have tried keeping ball pythons in big spacious enclosures. You know what? They spend 99% of their time hiding under a log, always having trouble with shedding and sometimes going off feed. Quite simply, they do not use the space. They are ambush predators. Not all snakes are like that, and many snake species do well in spacious accomodations. But ball pythons rarely do, and fare much better in tight, comfy quarters. That is why the rack system has become almost "standard" for keeping large quantities of them.
I agree that they do well in small cages but I will say that in my experience with my ball python that she does fine regardless of what she's living in. I've had her 15 years and she's been in everything from rubbermaid containers to 75 gallon aquariums without issues.

This is just my experience though, i've never kept them on a large scale.
Ive had mine for 20 yrs...lol. My main point was that big tanks often don't do well, mainly for the same reasons they don't do well for tortoises: open/mesh tops that allow heat/humidity to escape too easily. Can be remedied for a resourceful, experienced keeper...but it still never changed the fact that the snake spent 99% of its time in one spot.
 

jtrux

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After having her for 15 years, i've been considering a larger snake. Not sure what to get though. I'm leaning towards some type of boa, probably a Dumeril's. We shall see.
 

StudentoftheReptile

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Dumerils are awesome! I had a pair once, very much like giant ball pythons, but with better feeding responses! They burrow under the substrate a lot.
 

DeanS

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I'm not even going to read through this...I'm just gonna state my feelings. I NEVER TIRE OF BALL PYTHONS! The ultimate starter pet...pose no threat whatsoever...and even if they do strike, you get a worse wound from a paper cut. I dig ALL the morphs...especially piebalds and spiders. And, no surprise here I'm sure, I think ivory balls are very cool! So...KEEP 'EM COMING!
 

ra94131

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DeanS said:
The ultimate starter pet.
I may not share your enthusiasm but this is 100% true, especially for people fascinated by anything cold-blooded.
 

argus333

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reptile shows???

when did all reptile shows become ball python shows? i know they are cool and the pi-balled ones still make me stop and look. but man if u wanna make some money bread balls and sell them $20 less then everyone.. seems to me the hobby needs some more work with some different species. i saw really only bearded dragons leopard geckos and more ball pythons then blades of grass. maybe im wrong anyone else see this?
 

JeffG

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RE: reptile shows???

:) That's just the flavor of the month right now. I agree, I'm not that interested in BP's, but I am still grateful for the shows. It shows me how many people around me share my passion for reptiles. I NEVER find anything I want to buy at a show, but I still go to every one to show my support for the community.
 

wellington

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RE: reptile shows???

I have only gone to one reptile show. It was just this past November. I don't honestly know if I would go back. Lots of snakes, not much of anything else:( Yes, most of the snakes I must say were pythons.
 

RedfootsRule

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RE: reptile shows???

You already made a thread with the exact same subject...And it was re-located to the "Snakes" category because it does not belong here....If your going to make multiple threads, please at least post them in the correct category.
 

StudentoftheReptile

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RE: reptile shows???

Snakes have always been relative easier to keep and to breed in captivity than most lizards and certainly most chelonians. Popularity is influenced by two major factors: 1.) size/ease of care for beginners (aka the "pet store" shoppers, that frequent Petsmart and Petco) and 2.) genetic morphs/mutations.

Look what species are always staples at most stores that carry reptiles: bearded dragons, leopard geckos, crested geckos, corn snakes, king snakes, milk snakes, and of course, ball pythons. Any one of those species could fare well in a 40-gal breeder. Leopard geckos have probably close to 100 different pattern/color morphs. Cornsnakes and ball pythons literally have over a thousand each. One can practically cherry-pick their own pattern and color on the snake (design their own "paintjob" as some hobbyists say).

Can you do that with any tortoise species? Not really. Even the ever-popular red-eared slider has a dozen or so morphs, but very few want to work with large aquatic turtles, when they can fit over a hundred snakes in one room. I'm not saying it is right or wrong; just pointing out what drives this industry. Ball pythons are what many term the "perfect" pet snake; small size, docile temperament, easy to breed and they live for decades. And like I said, one can trick them out in any combination of genetic mutations for aberrant pattern or color. Some are worth a couple hundred bucks, others are valued at thousands of dollars. Its money, and its what makes the world go around. That is why you will always see a high number of BPs at reptile shows.

For those who are a little bored of some shows, I encourage you to visit one of the big shows: either the NRBE in Daytona, FL, or any of the NARBC shows (I hear Tinley Park, Chicago is the largest). Bigger shows will have more variety, although there still will be a heavy representation of ball pythons there.
[hr]
argus333 said:
when did all reptile shows become ball python shows? i know they are cool and the pi-balled ones still make me stop and look. but man if u wanna make some money bread balls and sell them $20 less then everyone.. seems to me the hobby needs some more work with some different species. i saw really only bearded dragons leopard geckos and more ball pythons then blades of grass. maybe im wrong anyone else see this?
BTW, it's "piebald." ;)
 

Mgridgaway

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RE: reptile shows???

I think tortoise owners are sort of the black sheep of the reptile world. Whenever I tell someone I'm looking for tortoises they give me "the look" and move on to their next customer. That is, unless they're dealing in tortoises specifically which, at the last reptile show I went to, was 2 booths out of 50.

But man oh man, the snakes. And leopard geckos in a somewhat close second. Beardies are up their too.

But like JeffG said, there is a lot of "flavor of the month" with reptiles. Ten years ago you couldn't walk 10 feet without seeing somebody selling iguanas. Now they're getting hard to find, being replaced by the smaller chinese water dragon, which you can find in every big box pet store.
 

Neal

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RE: reptile shows???

I'm with Jeff, I mainly go to support the community. The past two times I've gone, I've only come home with stuffed animals for my kids.

AZ was a decent show for tortoises. They were definitely in the minority, but there were a few radiateds, stars, and others. Most were in TortoiseSupply's booth. Jeff saw some Ploughshare tortoises that I must have missed. :)
 

RedfootsRule

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RE: reptile shows???

Neal said:
I'm with Jeff, I mainly go to support the community. The past two times I've gone, I've only come home with stuffed animals for my kids.

AZ was a decent show for tortoises. They were definitely in the minority, but there were a few radiateds, stars, and others. Most were in TortoiseSupply's booth. Jeff saw some Ploughshare tortoises that I must have missed. :)
I'm going to assume "ploughshare" is a typo, being that there is no possible way they could legally sell them, nor would be crazy enough to part with one :)

Daytona is pretty good for tortoises....Last time I went there was a breeder selling several juvenile radiatas and about 20 hatchlings for $850 each...Really wish I had got one back then :). The usual hypo/sunset-hypo leopards, ivory sulcatas, and of course red foots....But, like everywhere, it is dominantly ball pythons. 6 years ago there was someone with several chacos, and one man with a pair of bowsprits....Really wish I had got those chacos =/.
 

theelectraco

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RE: reptile shows???

Last expo i went to in anaheim a few months back they had one redfoot. But a ton if sulcatas that they were selling to people as if they were candy. Im sure most if them are being neglected. When i asked boiths if they knew if anyone with tortoises they looked at me like i was speaking a foreign language >.>
 

Mgridgaway

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RE: reptile shows???

Neal said:
I'm with Jeff, I mainly go to support the community. The past two times I've gone, I've only come home with stuffed animals for my kids.

AZ was a decent show for tortoises. They were definitely in the minority, but there were a few radiateds, stars, and others. Most were in TortoiseSupply's booth. Jeff saw some Ploughshare tortoises that I must have missed. :)
Wow, we get nothing like that over in Maryland. I would say redfoots are probably most common around here, and I've also seen the occasional sulcata. Other than that you're lucky if you see another species.
 

RedfootsRule

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RE: reptile shows???

theelectraco said:
Last expo i went to in anaheim a few months back they had one redfoot. But a ton if sulcatas that they were selling to people as if they were candy. Im sure most if them are being neglected. When i asked boiths if they knew if anyone with tortoises they looked at me like i was speaking a foreign language >.>
I know what you mean...I have a moral argument with anyone arrogant enough to sell tortoises, any kind, without a care sheet. But most all of them do. Whats worse is the ones who say, "Russian tortoises! Stay small; a pair can live in a 20 gallon tank! No water bowl needed! Can safely be left for a week, its the perfect low-mantainence pet!". A darker side of human nature, I suppose, to willingly give an animal away without any assurance for its future.
 
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