who's had enough of ball pythons?

[argus333]

seems like reptile shows are now ball python shows with some other reptiles sprinkled in. those are bearded dragons and leopard geckos. went to show today saw maybe 8 tortoises. i think people gotta start trying some other stuff, a lot of other reptiles need help in the captive breeding dept.

 

[mattgrizzlybear]

Yeah, all these animals that get bred usually are sold to pet stores and then sold to (usually) kids who have no clue how big they are going to get or even how to take care of them. Or the breeders animals go strait to the kids.

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Usually

 

[RedfootsRule]

I AGREE! Finally someone agrees with me! I am so tired of reptile shows...I feel like I walk through and see ball python after ball python! And the breeders are commonly scum-bags...Flaming purple disco-ball paradox! (Notice the tiny purple marking?! Its totally NOT nail polish...) I saw someone trying to sell a "fireball disco paradox" once for 50 grand...Not sure if they ever got it. They create elaborate names for normal snakes...
I'm getting so tired of all these morphs . Just about every imaginable kind has been made, and then some.
Ball pythons are just to easy to breed, and to easy to make new morphs out of for people. In regards for them being inappropriate for kids; SOME kids, when educated, can care for them...They're very easy snakes. Only get about 5 feet max. I've actually never seen one bite....Rats and a nice enclosure with a stable temperature...Yada yada.
The whole ball python thing is just to drawn out.

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This probably should've been in the "off-topic debates" section, by the way...

 

[Baoh]

While I do not keep or have an interest in ball pythons, people should be free to enjoy them. That many shows are dominated by things like ball pythons, bearded dragons, and leopard geckos just speaks to the market for them. Vendors are giving the bulk of the attendees what the bulk of attendees want/buy. They are popular and can be used to teach children (and adults) good keeping practices and engender an appreciation for reptiles.

I have no complaints.

 

[RedfootsRule]

While I do not keep or have an interest in ball pythons, people should be free to enjoy them. That many shows are dominated by things like ball pythons, bearded dragons, and leopard geckos just speaks to the market for them. Vendors are giving the bulk of the attendees what the bulk of attendees want/buy. They are popular and can be used to teach children (and adults) good keeping practices and engender an appreciation for reptiles.

I have no complaints.

Very good points. Everyone is free to enjoy what they want...I just wish other things would be offered, to give people a chance to be interested in them. It is good for teaching good care, and they are a good first-pet in the line of reptiles due to their docile nature. I just get tired of the bulk amount of them...Would be nice to see some more tortoises, turtles, lizards...It seems all the breeders stick to the very easy, common (leopard geckos, dragons, ball pythons) animals and turn them into every kind of imaginable morph...Why not progress to the animals that already have a natural striking beauty? Now, of course, no ones going to be bringing their mang'shan viper....

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Balls, corns, Leo's, and beardies all bore me to tears. What I find upsetting are the hybrids of say corns/kings. These never would hybridize in the real world and a well meaning, forgetful buyer may breed out a hatchling that LOOKS like a pure and pass it off as such and then things get real dirty. Just my opinion. When I bred gopher/bull/pine snakes, it was very important to me that the lines were clean and often local specific. There still are breeders that feel this way and they don't have Andy Warhol reptiles, but they don't have the crowds at their tables anymore either. Shows are expensive on the wallet and taxing on the animals. High volume makes it easier for some.

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Leo's=leopard geckos.

 

[Thalatte]

I personally think its good that shows are mainly Leo's, balls, and beardies. These are the easier species to care for and good for the majority of clientele for the shows. When I see sulcatas, red eared sliders, Chinese water dragons, sailfins, etc. I get mad as most people buy these animals thinking "look how tiny and cute! And the person says they are easy to care for!" Yet the buyer never comprehends the size they get to, the cage requirements, and how much work they are. So many of the reptiles I take in are because people didn't know about these things.
I don't like going to reptile shows and seeing exotic foreign species as they usually get sold to "collector" types (those that get a large collection just to have yet don't care about or can afford maintaining them correctly to ensure animals are healthy) and the animals suffer for it.
Someone that wants and can provide for the various exotic exotics will take the time to research and build the enclosures and then buy from reputable sources. Not go walk around a show and say "oh that looks interesting! Never seen one of them before! Lets buy two!"
Shows are no longer about the variety of animals they are geared towards impulse buyers.

 

[Tom]

I've noticed this too. My friend and I were actually joking about the silly names for all these morphs at the Pomona show on Saturday. There was some sort of "Translucent Hypo Dragon Het something or other..." I can't even remember it all now... I still look at those tables. Some of the colors are kind of neat. I don't have interest in keeping any more ball pythons, but I do really dig those piebald morphs. They had some all white ones too. Not albinos mind you, but solid white. I've had leopard geckos too. Fat tails, Tokays and skunks also. The leopards have just never been my thing, but again, I still find the giant morphs kind of neat.

It doesn't "bother" me. There was a lot of other good stuff at this show. It's pretty easy to just walk past the stuff that doesn't interest me much. Over all I am just happy to see the whole industry thriving and doing well. Whatever our opinion of these three species, they are a healthy part of our industry and a driving force to bring new people into the hobby.

 

[Thalatte]

You mean like my male bearded dragon the "German giant citrus het"? Or even better my female "purple tiger stripe citrus sandfire"?
I don't understand how they name the morphs and a lot of breeders make up their own names so you end up with the same type of morph but there are 6 things to call it. However regardless of the naming confusion I do like all the color morphs. Especially of green tree pythons that are black or deep blue even though they cost more than my car.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

The species that are small, easy to keep, easy to breed and have the most morphs will always be the most common: this means corn snakes, ball pythons, king snakes, leopard geckos, bearded dragons and crested geckos. Why? They are the most profitable. Even people who work with other species, often may work with those those as well. I have had lots of keepers tell me, they merely breed ball pythons to pay the bills, so they can also work with their other stuff.

Naming the morphs? Just marketing. I agree, sometimes it gets ridiculous, but a calling something a double heterzygous anerythristic hypomelanistic albino isn't as sexy as a Purple Lavender Dreamiscle, or whatever. Some traits don't have a specific name, so whoever came up with it gets naming rights: name it for what it looks like, after their firstborn, location of where they bouht it, etc.....kinda like taxonomy!

 

[jtrux]

Personally, I've been annoyed with them lately. Yes they are popular. Yes they are easy to keep and offer noobs an opportunity to enter the reptile world with an easy to keep species but I want to see a variety. The only variety I ever see are from guys that have one of everything. What happened to the good old days where you would have multiple vendors who all specialized in one or two different species? You could walk the whole show and never get bored.

Who cares what the market demands, it's all about what I want...who am I kidding, I don't even get my way at home, why should I expect it elsewhere lol

 

[Anthony P]

Most people don't own a lot of land. A friend of mine lives with his mom and keeps ball pythons in small tubs and racks in his bedroom. Can't really do that with turtles and tortoises.

Most of us are tapped out on space, but ball Python people always have the room for one more. Or 20 more I'm sure. Heating is cheaper because of these rack systems, and a lot of people don't use much for bedding/substrate, and they don't use heating at all.

As turtle/tortoise people, we see all these "beginner" reptiles and it stinks, since it seems there is so much more market for the other stuff. Truth is, if you could through turtles in breeding racks with no light and get them to breed, you'd see a lot more of them at shows. There'd be more to buy, and more people wanting to buy them.

 

[N2TORTS]

I remember my first one .........in 1972

 

[RedfootsRule]

Most people don't own a lot of land. A friend of mine lives with his mom and keeps ball pythons in small tubs and racks in his bedroom. Can't really do that with turtles and tortoises.

Most of us are tapped out on space, but ball Python people always have the room for one more. Or 20 more I'm sure. Heating is cheaper because of these rack systems, and a lot of people don't use much for bedding/substrate, and they don't use heating at all.

As turtle/tortoise people, we see all these "beginner" reptiles and it stinks, since it seems there is so much more market for the other stuff. Truth is, if you could through turtles in breeding racks with no light and get them to breed, you'd see a lot more of them at shows. There'd be more to buy, and more people wanting to buy them.

Personally, unless husbandry tactics are completely changed, I feel snakes have no place in reptile shows at all. No, before anyone causes me, I don't believe that they should not be kept. I have nothing against snakes in captivity. But breeding racks? I hate it....People have this IDIOTIC idea in their mind that you can take a 22 foot retic and put it in an 8x2 vision cage and it will be fine? Comon people....How is that NOT cruel? The problem is, its to easy for people to do.
How would you like to live your life in a tiny container?
I just wish people would actually give them proper housing...

 

[Anthony P]

Most people don't own a lot of land. A friend of mine lives with his mom and keeps ball pythons in small tubs and racks in his bedroom. Can't really do that with turtles and tortoises.

Most of us are tapped out on space, but ball Python people always have the room for one more. Or 20 more I'm sure. Heating is cheaper because of these rack systems, and a lot of people don't use much for bedding/substrate, and they don't use heating at all.

As turtle/tortoise people, we see all these "beginner" reptiles and it stinks, since it seems there is so much more market for the other stuff. Truth is, if you could through turtles in breeding racks with no light and get them to breed, you'd see a lot more of them at shows. There'd be more to buy, and more people wanting to buy them.

Personally, unless husbandry tactics are completely changed, I feel snakes have no place in reptile shows at all. No, before anyone causes me, I don't believe that they should not be kept. I have nothing against snakes in captivity. But breeding racks? I hate it....People have this IDIOTIC idea in their mind that you can take a 22 foot retic and put it in an 8x2 vision cage and it will be fine? Comon people....How is that NOT cruel? The problem is, its to easy for people to do.
How would you like to live your life in a tiny container?
I just wish people would actually give them proper housing...

For the record, I absolutely agree with you. But it's a sad truth. The majority of reptile owners are probably asking pet store owners what to do, or coming to their own conclusions. Most probably aren't involved in online forums like this, where they can learn best practices from people who are in it for the right reasons.

Sad thing is though, that the breeding racks are considered standard procedure. And, it's just part of the morph game. The more you get into morphs, the further away we go from what's natural, and providing the best possible habitat, that an animal would enjoy in the wild. It's so manmade, and therefor the natural world is not what these hobbyists are going for. It's just the way it is. Their goals are not to provide a perfect habitat, it's more to have the animal.

I doubt betta fish like their lives in those small bowls. Just the way it is. Because of their ability to survive in less, they get less.

 

[RedfootsRule]

Most people don't own a lot of land. A friend of mine lives with his mom and keeps ball pythons in small tubs and racks in his bedroom. Can't really do that with turtles and tortoises.

Most of us are tapped out on space, but ball Python people always have the room for one more. Or 20 more I'm sure. Heating is cheaper because of these rack systems, and a lot of people don't use much for bedding/substrate, and they don't use heating at all.

As turtle/tortoise people, we see all these "beginner" reptiles and it stinks, since it seems there is so much more market for the other stuff. Truth is, if you could through turtles in breeding racks with no light and get them to breed, you'd see a lot more of them at shows. There'd be more to buy, and more people wanting to buy them.

Personally, unless husbandry tactics are completely changed, I feel snakes have no place in reptile shows at all. No, before anyone causes me, I don't believe that they should not be kept. I have nothing against snakes in captivity. But breeding racks? I hate it....People have this IDIOTIC idea in their mind that you can take a 22 foot retic and put it in an 8x2 vision cage and it will be fine? Comon people....How is that NOT cruel? The problem is, its to easy for people to do.
How would you like to live your life in a tiny container?
I just wish people would actually give them proper housing...

For the record, I absolutely agree with you. But it's a sad truth. The majority of reptile owners are probably asking pet store owners what to do, or coming to their own conclusions. Most probably aren't involved in online forums like this, where they can learn best practices from people who are in it for the right reasons.

Sad thing is though, that the breeding racks are considered standard procedure. And, it's just part of the morph game. The more you get into morphs, the further away we go from what's natural, and providing the best possible habitat, that an animal would enjoy in the wild. It's so manmade, and therefor the natural world is not what these hobbyists are going for. It's just the way it is. Their goals are not to provide a perfect habitat, it's more to have the animal.

I doubt betta fish like their lives in those small bowls. Just the way it is. Because of their ability to survive in less, they get less.

I know =/. Its just to drilled into peoples mind...Its what everyone does, so everyone does it...I wish something would change. Can't people see it is NOT okay, nor sufficient? An emerald tree boa should be in at least some kind of 6x6x6 terrarium with real plants and sticks, but they make these special vision cages that are about twice as tall with a stick down the middle...Woo-hoo.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

I personally have tried keeping ball pythons in big spacious enclosures. You know what? They spend 99% of their time hiding under a log, always having trouble with shedding and sometimes going off feed. Quite simply, they do not use the space. They are ambush predators. Not all snakes are like that, and many snake species do well in spacious accomodations. But ball pythons rarely do, and fare much better in tight, comfy quarters. That is why the rack system has become almost "standard" for keeping large quantities of them.

 

[RedfootsRule]

I personally have tried keeping ball pythons in big spacious enclosures. You know what? They spend 99% of their time hiding under a log, always having trouble with shedding and sometimes going off feed. Quite simply, they do not use the space. They are ambush predators. Not all snakes are like that, and many snake species do well in spacious accomodations. But ball pythons rarely do, and fare much better in tight, comfy quarters. That is why the rack system has become almost "standard" for keeping large quantities of them.

How exactly does them having "trouble shedding" have any effect on the size of the enclosure? It doesn't. It would be because you did not provide the proper rough logs, rocks, etc. for them to shed on, if anything.
A vast percentage of ground-snakes are nocturnal...Just because you see no movement doesn't mean they aren't using it when your away, or asleep. They are most likely returning to the same spot in the morning, they're favorite spot, giving you the illusion they don't use the space.
Not a single animal does BETTER in smaller accommodations....None. What do you think snakes do in the wild? They wander for food; snakes don't sit in the same spot, day after day, and eat the food that comes by, as you seem to have that illusion.
Ball pythons MAY be one of the snakes that do OKAY in smaller accommodations..But those "smaller" accommodations should be about 3x the size of what most keepers offer them.
And there are many other snakes...Not just ball pythons.
It has become standard because people can make money with little to no mantainence. The "standard" accommodations benefit them at the expense of the snake...
This seems to be one of few things zoos do right...I have personally seen many zoo's with large, 15 foot plus retics, burmese, rock pythons etc. in large, spacious rooms. This is as it should be.

 

[yarok]

Just picked up an awsome pair of crested geckos =)

 

[jtrux]

I personally have tried keeping ball pythons in big spacious enclosures. You know what? They spend 99% of their time hiding under a log, always having trouble with shedding and sometimes going off feed. Quite simply, they do not use the space. They are ambush predators. Not all snakes are like that, and many snake species do well in spacious accomodations. But ball pythons rarely do, and fare much better in tight, comfy quarters. That is why the rack system has become almost "standard" for keeping large quantities of them.

I agree that they do well in small cages but I will say that in my experience with my ball python that she does fine regardless of what she's living in. I've had her 15 years and she's been in everything from rubbermaid containers to 75 gallon aquariums without issues.

This is just my experience though, i've never kept them on a large scale.