UV index and tortoise outdoor enclousure

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Hey! I have been planning an outdoor enclousure to house my tortoise outdoors in the summer here in Finland. I have already been worried about the heat, but one thing I have also been thinking about lately is the low UV index here in Finland.

UVI 3 can be reached from May to August on a sunny day. In the middle of summer on a clear day we might even get 7 hours a day of a UVI (UV-Index) of 3, from 10 am to 5 pm. In the mid summer on the sunniest days of the year (which there are only a few, and it depends on the summer) the UVI can reach a "record high" of 5-7. A lot depends on the summer of cours, as the amount of sunny days depends on the year, but what is you opnion, will my tort get enough UVB when he is outside during the summer?

The avarage temperatures in the summer months are also on the low side in my location. This is why he is not going to be outside every day and will be spending the nights in his indoor enclosure. Here are the avarage temps during the summer in my city:

• May: 8 degrees Celsius, or 46.4 degrees Fahrenheit
• June 14 degrees Celsius, or 57.2 degrees Fahrenheit
• July 17 degrees Celsius, or 62.6 degrees Fahrenheit
• August 15 degrees Celsius, or 59 degrees Fahrenheit

What do you think about the UVI and the temps? Also, I would love any tips on building an outdoor enclosure that is not permanent, since I am spending the summer at my parents house and don't want to build an permanent enclosure for something that is not going to be a permanent arrangement.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hey! I have been planning an outdoor enclousure to house my tortoise outdoors in the summer here in Finland. I have already been worried about the heat, but one thing I have also been thinking about lately is the low UV index here in Finland.

UVI 3 can be reached from May to August on a sunny day. In the middle of summer on a clear day we might even get 7 hours a day of a UVI (UV-Index) of 3, from 10 am to 5 pm. In the mid summer on the sunniest days of the year (which there are only a few, and it depends on the summer) the UVI can reach a "record high" of 5-7. A lot depends on the summer of cours, as the amount of sunny days depends on the year, but what is you opnion, will my tort get enough UVB when he is outside during the summer?

The avarage temperatures in the summer months are also on the low side in my location. This is why he is not going to be outside every day and will be spending the nights in his indoor enclosure. Here are the avarage temps during the summer in my city:

• May: 8 degrees Celsius, or 46.4 degrees Fahrenheit
• June 14 degrees Celsius, or 57.2 degrees Fahrenheit
• July 17 degrees Celsius, or 62.6 degrees Fahrenheit
• August 15 degrees Celsius, or 59 degrees Fahrenheit

What do you think about the UVI and the temps? Also, I would love any tips on building an outdoor enclosure that is not permanent, since I am spending the summer at my parents house and don't want to build an permanent enclosure for something that is not going to be a permanent arrangement.

I assume, that UVI of 3-4 may be enough if outdoor pen has direct sun space. It's close to the recommended UVI level under UVB lamps. I wonder what surface temperatures can be under the sun (maybe you can find ground temperature measurements or shade/sun temperatures for your area).

As for the temporary enclosure ideas, if parent's yard is "tortoise safe" (no toxic plants, pesticides and such), then something like this may work:
https://zoomed.com/easy-fold-tortoise-yard/ There also foldable dog/chicken/rabbit pens.

Or you can make permanent garden beds with with safe plants and decor, which will fit nicely in the yard. Then you just put tortoise in and install some kind of mesh cover (to prevent escapes and keep birds and small predators out). And if we talk about lids - you may research UVB transparent plastic films. This will work like a greenhouse and preserve heat and sunlight UVB spectrum. This is an example of such enclosures: https://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/climateframe.html

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I assume, that UVI of 3-4 may be enough if outdoor pen has direct sun space. It's close to the recommended UVI level under UVB lamps. I wonder what surface temperatures can be under the sun (maybe you can find ground temperature measurements or shade/sun temperatures for your area).

As for the temporary enclosure ideas, if parent's yard is "tortoise safe" (no toxic plants, pesticides and such), then something like this may work:
https://zoomed.com/easy-fold-tortoise-yard/ There also foldable dog/chicken/rabbit pens.

Or you can make permanent garden beds with with safe plants and decor, which will fit nicely in the yard. Then you just put tortoise in and install some kind of mesh cover (to prevent escapes and keep birds and small predators out). And if we talk about lids - you may research UVB transparent plastic films. This will work like a greenhouse and preserve heat and sunlight UVB spectrum. This is an example of such enclosures: https://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/climateframe.html

I haven't found any ground temperature measurements yet, but in may the ground migh still be frozen, like at 20 cm deep. I have looked at some foldable rabbit pens but I am not sure if I could leave him unsupervised in them, since he could dig out but I will look more into it.

 

[Tom]

Hey! I have been planning an outdoor enclousure to house my tortoise outdoors in the summer here in Finland. I have already been worried about the heat, but one thing I have also been thinking about lately is the low UV index here in Finland.

UVI 3 can be reached from May to August on a sunny day. In the middle of summer on a clear day we might even get 7 hours a day of a UVI (UV-Index) of 3, from 10 am to 5 pm. In the mid summer on the sunniest days of the year (which there are only a few, and it depends on the summer) the UVI can reach a "record high" of 5-7. A lot depends on the summer of cours, as the amount of sunny days depends on the year, but what is you opnion, will my tort get enough UVB when he is outside during the summer?

The avarage temperatures in the summer months are also on the low side in my location. This is why he is not going to be outside every day and will be spending the nights in his indoor enclosure. Here are the avarage temps during the summer in my city:

• May: 8 degrees Celsius, or 46.4 degrees Fahrenheit
• June 14 degrees Celsius, or 57.2 degrees Fahrenheit
• July 17 degrees Celsius, or 62.6 degrees Fahrenheit
• August 15 degrees Celsius, or 59 degrees Fahrenheit

What do you think about the UVI and the temps? Also, I would love any tips on building an outdoor enclosure that is not permanent, since I am spending the summer at my parents house and don't want to build an permanent enclosure for something that is not going to be a permanent arrangement.

Those UV numbers are great. They store D3 in their fat cells for later use, so its no problem if there are a couple of weeks of low UV outdoors due to cloudy weather. They can literally go months with no UV at all and no ill effect. You can always supplement using a calcium powder with D3 in it, or used foods with D3 like Mazuri.

Average temps are meaningless. We need to know day time highs. Night time lows don't matter because the tortoise will be locked up in its temperature controlled box, or indoor in a temperature controlled enclosure. In my area we have warm sunny days year round, but also cold nights year round. In winter we frequently go from 0-5C at night, up to 22-24 during the day. In summer we often go from 44C during the day down to 15C at night. Huge swings. The average of those temps has no bearing on anything. The question for you and your tortoise is whether or not he can bask in the sun and warm up during the day. If not, then there is no point in an outdoor enclosure. On a sunny day, they can warm up even at 18-20C.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Those UV numbers are great. They store D3 in their fat cells for later use, so its no problem if there are a couple of weeks of low UV outdoors due to cloudy weather. They can literally go months with no UV at all and no ill effect. You can always supplement using a calcium powder with D3 in it, or used foods with D3 like Mazuri.

Average temps are meaningless. We need to know day time highs. Night time lows don't matter because the tortoise will be locked up in its temperature controlled box, or indoor in a temperature controlled enclosure. In my area we have warm sunny days year round, but also cold nights year round. In winter we frequently go from 0-5C at night, up to 22-24 during the day. In summer we often go from 44C during the day down to 15C at night. Huge swings. The average of those temps has no bearing on anything. The question for you and your tortoise is whether or not he can bask in the sun and warm up during the day. If not, then there is no point in an outdoor enclosure. On a sunny day, they can warm up even at 18-20C.

It depends much on the day. There are days with a high of 18-20C and the warmest days might have a high of 25-35 (We don't get much of those days in a year, about 6-10 days on average per year, these days are almost never in may or august so they are a mid summer thing. I live more in the north of Finland for context.). Then there are days when the high is lower than 18, even 13-16C isn't that uncommon for the high of the day. Those days I am going to keep him inside, it is probably for the best.

There are days when it can get really cold near the ground, especially in areas that have lower elevation and no water nearby. There is a warning given in the summer if the temperature might drop to 0C near ground level, a bigger warning is given when temperatures near ground leve drop to -4C or less. These are rare, couldn't find a statistic of them near me but I would say they are more of a thing in may and august, maybe 10 or so days in the year. Usually causes the demise of many human grown plants. On these days he will obviously be inside too.

I still have to work on finding some statistics of the max and min temperatures here.

 

[mark1]

my thought would be to put a mercury vapor light on a timer in their pen...... i use them outside in the fall and spring...... the ground temperature is a big deal, they get a lot of their heat from the ground.... a raised bed may help, just don't let them hibernate in a raised bed .....

 

[jaizei]

It depends much on the day. There are days with a high of 18-20C and the warmest days might have a high of 25-35 (We don't get much of those days in a year, about 6-10 days on average per year, these days are almost never in may or august so they are a mid summer thing. I live more in the north of Finland for context.). Then there are days when the high is lower than 18, even 13-16C isn't that uncommon for the high of the day. Those days I am going to keep him inside, it is probably for the best.

There are days when it can get really cold near the ground, especially in areas that have lower elevation and no water nearby. There is a warning given in the summer if the temperature might drop to 0C near ground level, a bigger warning is given when temperatures near ground leve drop to -4C or less. These are rare, couldn't find a statistic of them near me but I would say they are more of a thing in may and august, maybe 10 or so days in the year. Usually causes the demise of many human grown plants. On these days he will obviously be inside too.

I still have to work on finding some statistics of the max and min temperatures here.

Using UV open plastic to make a hoophouse/poly tunnel might let you take advantage of those days that are sunny but not quite warm enough.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

my thought would be to put a mercury vapor light on a timer in their pen...... i use them outside in the fall and spring...... the ground temperature is a big deal, they get a lot of their heat from the ground.... a raised bed may help, just don't let them hibernate in a raised bed .....

Yeah, the outdoor set up is going to be temporary, only for this summer. I personnally would never let my tortoise hibernate outside in Finland, it is just plain dangerous... As said I still have took look into the ground temps, statistics offered usually consist of temps measured 2m or 6 a bit over six feet of the ground. So there isn't really any data on ground temps. Maybe I will end up raising the enclosure of the ground just to be safe even though I am only keeping him in there on warm days.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Using UV open plastic to make a hoophouse/poly tunnel might let you take advantage of those days that are sunny but not quite warm enough.

Would a greenhouse made out of cellurar polycarbonate panels work, so a cold frame? Are they all UV open plastic, since they are meant for plants?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Would a greenhouse made out of cellurar polycarbonate panels work, so a cold frame? Are they all UV open plastic, since they are meant for plants?

I mean I am not sure if those greenhouses made from PVC "fabric" hold in heat enough.

 

[mark1]

Yeah, the outdoor set up is going to be temporary, only for this summer. I personnally would never let my tortoise hibernate outside in Finland, it is just plain dangerous... As said I still have took look into the ground temps, statistics offered usually consist of temps measured 2m or 6 a bit over six feet of the ground. So there isn't really any data on ground temps. Maybe I will end up raising the enclosure of the ground just to be safe even though I am only keeping him in there on warm days.

by a raised bed i meant added soil in a frame ,on top of the natural ground....... the substrate temperatures in an enclosure off the ground are way too erratic .... as long as the ground is near 60 at the surface , it'd be fine , they'd use the sun to heat up beyond that..... dig down a couple inches and put a temp probe in the ground .... i doubt a russian tortoise digs any deeper than a couple inches.....

 

[jaizei]

Would a greenhouse made out of cellurar polycarbonate panels work, so a cold frame? Are they all UV open plastic, since they are meant for plants?

No, not all greenhouse materials are UV open or UV transmissive. You can get panels that are also UV open but in my experience they've usually been more expensive and harder to find. And the shipping on the panels is usually expensive because of the size.

Here's an example of a cold frame by Andy Highfield

The Climate Frame Outdoor Terrarium with Natural UV-B and WiRA

Ourdoor Reptile Terrarium with natural UVB

www.tortoisetrust.org

 

[mark1]

I mean I am not sure if those greenhouses made from PVC "fabric" hold in heat enough.

on full sun days in february here , it'd be 15F outside , and i'd be opening the doors to keep it from getting to HOT inside..... when the sun goes down the temps plummet, you need to use objects of some type to somewhat stabilize the temperature at night.... i use the ground, rocks/boulders, water......

 

[Tom]

.... i doubt a russian tortoise digs any deeper than a couple inches.....

6-8 inches deep is a normal day of digging for a Russian. 12-18 inches occasionally in extremes of hot or cold. They have a way of sort of shimmying down into the dirt like a stingray or a halibut.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

on full sun days in february here , it'd be 15F outside , and i'd be opening the doors to keep it from getting to HOT inside..... when the sun goes down the temps plummet, you need to use objects of some type to somewhat stabilize the temperature at night.... i use the ground, rocks/boulders, water......

He is not going to be spending the night outside, since this is going to be a temporary set up.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

6-8 inches deep is a normal day of digging for a Russian. 12-18 inches occasionally in extremes of hot or cold. They have a way of sort of shimmying down into the dirt like a stingray or a halibut.

Yeah, I agree. This is why I am probably going for an raised option with some wire underneath so he can't dig out. This way I don't have to dig the enclosure deep enough, which I could to if it was my own yard and a temporary solution.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

No, not all greenhouse materials are UV open or UV transmissive. You can get panels that are also UV open but in my experience they've usually been more expensive and harder to find. And the shipping on the panels is usually expensive because of the size.

Here's an example of a cold frame by Andy Highfield

The Climate Frame Outdoor Terrarium with Natural UV-B and WiRA

Ourdoor Reptile Terrarium with natural UVB

www.tortoisetrust.org

Yeah, I am finding it hard to find any UV open materials, but I will keep looking. Most materials don't say anything about UV. Some PVC fabrics meant for making greenhouses and even some ready-made-greenhouses state that they are "UV protected", which probably means that they are made so they can last months in the sun. But does this also mean that UVB can't pass through properly?

 

[jaizei]

Yeah, I am finding it hard to find any UV open materials, but I will keep looking. Most materials don't say anything about UV. Some PVC fabrics meant for making greenhouses and even some ready-made-greenhouses state that they are "UV protected", which probably means that they are made so they can last months in the sun. But does this also mean that UVB can't pass through properly?

UV-open seems to be a newer term. UV transmitting might yield better results. The acrylic sheets were originally used mostly for tanning beds so searching in that direction might also help.

Example of acrylic sheet:

Clear Sunbed Grade UV Perspex Acrylic Sheet | Plastic Stockist

Plastic Stockist Provides A Great Range Of Clear Sunbed Grade Perspex Sheet with UV Filters Removed, for Applications Requiring Transparency to UV Rays. Perfect For Sunbed Replacement Panels. Available To Buy Online Now.

www.plasticstockist.com

Here's a couple of the greenhouse films:
https://www.f-clean.net/f-clean-uv-open/

CoolMax 4 Year UV Open & UV Resistant 6 mil Clear Greenhouse Covering | Farm Plastic Supply

CoolMax Greenhouse Film has all of the properties of our IRAC Film (Anti-Condensate, IR Treatment) with the additional benefits of 75% light diffusion and UV Open technology.

farmplasticsupply.com

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

UV-open seems to be a newer term. UV transmitting might yield better results. The acrylic sheets were originally used mostly for tanning beds so searching in that direction might also help.

Example of acrylic sheet:

Clear Sunbed Grade UV Perspex Acrylic Sheet | Plastic Stockist

Plastic Stockist Provides A Great Range Of Clear Sunbed Grade Perspex Sheet with UV Filters Removed, for Applications Requiring Transparency to UV Rays. Perfect For Sunbed Replacement Panels. Available To Buy Online Now.

www.plasticstockist.com

Here's a couple of the greenhouse films:
https://www.f-clean.net/f-clean-uv-open/

CoolMax 4 Year UV Open & UV Resistant 6 mil Clear Greenhouse Covering | Farm Plastic Supply

CoolMax Greenhouse Film has all of the properties of our IRAC Film (Anti-Condensate, IR Treatment) with the additional benefits of 75% light diffusion and UV Open technology.

farmplasticsupply.com

Now I just have to find the correct search term in Finnish, so I can see whats available near me, thanks for the help!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

UV-open seems to be a newer term. UV transmitting might yield better results. The acrylic sheets were originally used mostly for tanning beds so searching in that direction might also help.

Example of acrylic sheet:

Clear Sunbed Grade UV Perspex Acrylic Sheet | Plastic Stockist

Plastic Stockist Provides A Great Range Of Clear Sunbed Grade Perspex Sheet with UV Filters Removed, for Applications Requiring Transparency to UV Rays. Perfect For Sunbed Replacement Panels. Available To Buy Online Now.

www.plasticstockist.com

Here's a couple of the greenhouse films:
https://www.f-clean.net/f-clean-uv-open/

CoolMax 4 Year UV Open & UV Resistant 6 mil Clear Greenhouse Covering | Farm Plastic Supply

CoolMax Greenhouse Film has all of the properties of our IRAC Film (Anti-Condensate, IR Treatment) with the additional benefits of 75% light diffusion and UV Open technology.

farmplasticsupply.com

Once again, thank you for mentioning UV transmitting. I didn't find anything labeled as UV open available for me, but I found plenty labeled UVT. I believe that means they are UV transmitting.