Some help for my friend please.

[StuMac]

Hey guys and gals. My friend has a Russian called Speedy. She was a bit concerned with the way her shell seems to have taken shape. She isn't pyramiding, and does poop and pee well. She eats fine too, although when I gave her a soak today I noticed she had undigested tomato skins appear. She has had the tort for about 6 months and unfortunately she is housing her on that horrible pellets, so I've advised her to get coco coir ASAP. She is in a vivarium with a UVB/heat strip light. Not sure of the temps but it certainly felt very cosy. She is just worried that the shell seems to be pretty "open" regarding the colouring. The shell is nice and firm, she is a strong, weighty tort. Not flimsy or floppy. I've also advised her to get some ornaments and plants to make her environment more cosy and welcoming. Here are some shots for you to see what I mean. Thanks in advance!!

 

[Moozillion]

I'm certainly no expert, but Speedy doesn't look like a Russian to me. Let's see what more knowledgable people think!

 

[wellington]

Looks to me like there is a huge growth spurt with very wide growth lines. What kind of diet is Speedy getting? Also, that aquarium looks way to small for her.

 

[lismar79]

I know its only one shot of enclosure but it really does not seem big enough for a russian. They need a lot of room.

 

[Abdulla6169]

Does the tort have a hide? I can't see one in the photo, what is his diet? What are the temps? Can you provide some more info? I can't to the species (still new to tort keeping)

 

[justino4444]

I think it is definitely a Russian but it has very strange growth lines


~ Justin

 

[StuMac]

Hi. It seems to definitely be a Russian but I could be wrong. It has a wicker hide to the right of the picture. And a heat mat under there. It's diet is some greens with tomato and cucumber as these were what she was told from the shop( typical uneducated advice as usual!). She was recommended the horrid pellets but she is planning on coir or topsoil. I've let her know I'm willing to help make a larger table similar to my 6x4. I'm not sure what's happened with the growth, the tort seems healthy but I agree it needs MUCH more room. I'll check back with her to see how she is getting on. Thanks for the advice and input.

PS...I *think* the viv is around 4x3 feet. Don't know the temps as she doesn't have a thermometer but her hubby is picking one up.

 

[Yvonne G]

When you see those really wide bands of new growth it usually means the tortoise is eating too much and not getting enough UVB. What does your friend feed the tortoise? And does it ever get outside in real sunshine?

 

[StuMac]

From what she was told to feed it she gives it cherry tomatoes, cucumber and cabbage. I've given her some herbivore nuggets to try that and up it's fibre. She does let it out but not very often as she and her husband work shifts that are usually all day till early evening. She does have a uv bulb in the viv. I'll be seeing her tomorrow, so I'll try to encourage her to sort the diet and fix up a different substrate. She wants what's best for her tort so is thankful of any advice we can give her.

 

[Tom]

That diet is all wrong. They need high fiber broadleaf weeds. Tomato, cucumber and cabbage should almost never be fed, if at all. The diet should be mostly weeds and leaves.

Please print these out and have her read them, or get her to read them here on the forum. If she truly wants whats best for her tortoise, she will follow some of these suggestions.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Here are a whole bunch of diet suggestions:
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food

 

[StuMac]

Thanks Tom. Like I said, she is working off of what she was told in a pet shop. I'll make sure she changes up the diet immediately. I gather the diet is similar to a hermanns? If so I'll make sure she gets all she needs as I have Slash eating well. Thanks again.

 

[dmmj]

The diet is def. hih calorie, and being in a smaller enclosure it prob. does not burn off he calories like it should, plus it is high sugar bad for russians. It is a russian, just a little diff. shell pattern. Diet and substrate change asap the enclosure looks awfully bare. The shell is prob growing to fast, to not keep pace with it' shell formation ( I hope that makes sense). Corrrect he diet and you should see the shell grow more rounded instead of the hat look it is developing.

 

[StuMac]

I have gently told her the environment is too barren for it so she will be making some changes. I'll show her these comments to let her see what's needed to help in all areas. Thanks for all the advice and help guys. I'm sure I'll be back here at some point with better news later. Thanks.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tom. Like I said, she is working off of what she was told in a pet shop. I'll make sure she changes up the diet immediately. I gather the diet is similar to a hermanns? If so I'll make sure she gets all she needs as I have Slash eating well. Thanks again.

Yes. The diet is basically the same for hermanni and horsfield.

Thanks for trying to help her. I hope she listens. I hope you go tell the pet shop too. It would be great to stop the flow of mis-information at the source.

 

[StuMac]

No problems. I love animals and want them all to live long and healthy. I'll be sure to mention to the shop and encourage them to up their game. She'll be happy that we all care so much that we want to help. Thanks.

 

[Abdulla6169]

No problems. I love animals and want them all to live long and healthy. I'll be sure to mention to the shop and encourage them to up their game. She'll be happy that we all care so much that we want to help. Thanks.

Animal lovers are usually very kind & like to help a lot (in my opinion)

 

[Tom]

Just be prepared to be shot down by the shop. They often don't take kindly to being told they are, and have been, doing things the wrong way. Still they need to be told. Eventually they will hear it enough times from enough people and it will start to sink in, but those unfortunate first few people might have to take the brunt of it. It may not be fun, but you will really be helping the tortoises one way or another in the long run. I have done this many times and seen all sorts of good and bad reactions.

You can always come back here and commiserate, however it goes. We'd love to hear.

 

[Abdulla6169]

Just be prepared to be shot down by the shop. They often don't take kindly to being told they are, and have been, doing things the wrong way. Still they need to be told. Eventually they will hear it enough times from enough people and it will start to sink in, but those unfortunate first few people might have to take the brunt of it. It may not be fun, but you will really be helping the tortoises one way or another in the long run. I have done this many times and seen all sorts of good and bad reactions.

You can always come back here and commiserate, however it goes. We'd love to hear.

It kinda depends on how owns it/the staff, those local pet shops that try hard will probably listen, those chain stores are usually not very good at listening to customer advice...

 

[Tom]

It definitely depends on many factors, but from what I have seen: The chain stores just have to do things the way the corporate offices tell them to do it. Not much room for them to change things. The smaller private stores are usually staffed and run by more experienced pet people. The people usually consider themselves experts, even though they often have no idea what they are talking about. Sometimes they listen and politely take it in. Other times they get all huffy and mad. My failures far outnumber my successes, but who knows what happens long after I've left. Sometimes I go back and changes have been made. Sometimes not. Still, I gotta try.

 

[wellington]

I totally agree with Tom, you have to try. Anytime someone sees a wrong with an animal, you have to try to make it right. We are the ONLY voice they have.
Sounds like your friend is very willing to change things. It would be nice if they could get her outside more often. A varmit proof enclosure, even a kiddie pool with a wire framed top in it would work to get her more exercise.