Smart in Snow?

[Tom]

Tom, does this mean that once we have gotten him to the point of habit I can allow him the choice to get out in the sun and grass even if I have melting snow? Or at his size you would not let him even have the choice of leaving? I understand to make sure he's in his heated enclosure when he plops down for sleep but do I keep him locked in no matter what during my winters like this one?

I would not let a tropical species of tortoise outside to romp in snow. I would not keep the tortoise "locked up" for months on end either, I would provide a large heated area if I was going to keep a species like this in a climate like that.

 

[Tom]

So when my sulcatas and leopard seek out the sun in the early morning after a chilly night (or any time the air may have a chill to it) they are not doing this to warm up because they are chilly, but for some other reason ? It is hard for me to accept that a tortoise especially leopards who's range does reach where it gets cold at times can't recognize cold.

Finding a spot lit and warmed by the giant fireball in the sky, is not the same as seeking out an electrically heated box in a snowy climate. The risk that I'm trying to warn this poster about is that if you allow a tortoise the choice to roam in the snow, some of them will make the choice to park under a bush some of the time instead of making their way back to the heated box we set out for them. A choice which could be fatal. I'm trying to relate the my own tortoises frequently park themselves in a place where they feel secure, even though the night temps will be far too cold for them and they have a heated box just a few feet away.

My own tortoises used to come out on a cold rainy January night, back when I used to give them the choice. Before I used doors, I would have to block them in their heated shelters on nights that it was going to rain. Their instinct to enjoy the water was stronger than their instinct to stay where its warm.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

All my commentary aside, I too, lock mine up at night and open at daylight,( or what passes for daylight here in the PNW. That tortoise in the snow picture was the only one of 4 out there that left the heated house. Sometimes they just do this ;
You can see its bright and sunny, but Makita there decided to bag it and stay inside where it was warm.

 

[Smazril]

I would not let a tropical species of tortoise outside to romp in snow. I would not keep the tortoise "locked up" for months on end either, I would provide a large heated area if I was going to keep a species like this in a climate like that.

Sorry.... Locked in sounded bad. I have a large sun room attached to an even larger enclosed patio that is all his to roam. The outside door has a dog door to the enclosed yard. I can leave the dog door, which he has learned to use, open or I can lock that. So when I say lock him up, that is what I am referring to.
Sounds like as long as my temps are in the 40s he will just roam inside and I will seal the dog door.
Thanks! Didn't know I would create such a debate.

 

[Jacqui]

I am not talking about using a heated box so much, because the box itself is an unknown. My thinking applies a lot more to using the burrows. I of course never "trained" mine to use theirs, they made it themselves and used it. They on their on, knew to go into the burrow at night and to stay in it on the colder mornings.

 

[Tom]

[QUOTE="Smazril, post: 991019, member: 45323" Didn't know I would create such a debate.[/QUOTE]

Its all good. This is when we all learn the most.

 

[Alaskamike]

It's really surprises me to see a cold blooded animal out in the snow. It seems especially with large sulcata this is not uncommon up North. The bigger the mass - the longer it would take to impact core temps I'm sure.

In 2010 , south Florida had record cold temps - lows of 32f for 3-4 days in a row.

Here there are many tropical reptiles that have been let loose , several species are breeding; iguanas, Nile monitor lizards ( can grow over 7' and weight 20+ lbs), tegu lizards (4' and 30lbs) . And Burmese Pythons - an 18' one was killed in 2014 in the Everglades - it had a 76lb deer in its stomach. They are decimating some native species.

It was thought that the cold snap would eliminate the problem. In fact I saw photos of parking lots near me where large iguanas had froze to death and just fell out of the trees to the pavement.

However , now in 2014 it is apparent that enough of them survived to continue breeding stock. Strong as ever. They are all here to stay.

Some died for sure. Maybe most. It is hard to know. But certainly many found shelter and a way to adapt.

I know here in So Florida I make sure my young torts (1-2 yo) do not stay out under 70f. If it's below that and wet they are inside or in their heated hide boxes.

I'll never have to deal with snow, but it can frost occasionally , and 40f is not unusual as low in Jan- Feb.

Right now it's 82f & sunny and my charges are roaming their enclosures eating up a storm.

I have a different take on torts and cold. Certainly a warm blooded creature does not feel cold the way a mammal does. Their entire body inside and out cools to the temperatures slowly. Mammals have mechanisms that alert them to this cooling of the blood ; great discomfort, shivering, etc. reptiles slow metabolism as their organs and blood cools. In other words they get lethargic. This lethargy can slow response , create inactivity and stiff limbs. They may just stay put and freeze to death.

The African and Madagascar torts did not develop a resistance to cold. In their environments there was no necessity For this reason alone I would take positive measure to insure their core temps never get very low. I insure mine are in warmth if it's below 70f outside

Maybe I am too cautious and have this luxury in Florida.

We've seen many pics of adult torts walking in the snow.

But it would make me very nervous

 

[Tom]

Mike, there is also a difference between what they can survive and what is good for them...

 

[argus333]

Also one could easily say keeping tortoises in any captive situation is not good for them. Behind walls.

 

[zenoandthetortoise]

Also one could easily say keeping tortoises in any captive situation is not good for them. Behind walls.

One could indeed easily say that. One might find it more difficult to substantiate.

 

[Tom]

Also one could easily say keeping tortoises in any captive situation is not good for them. Behind walls.

I agree with Zeno here. Anybody can say anything they want. Doesn't make it true. In my experience, a large percentage of captive tortoises have a much better life than their wild counterparts in just about any way you wish to measure such a thing.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I agree with Zeno here. Anybody can say anything they want. Doesn't make it true. In my experience, a large percentage of captive tortoises have a much better life than their wild counterparts in just about any way you wish to measure such a thing.

For instance the baby that hatched here this year with no eyes. He's doing great, finds food on his own and self soaks on his own. Terrible life he's got going compared to not in captivity, (insert sarcasm).

 

[ckromulus]

Speaking to Tom's point...I observed that when I moved my tortoises deck box, that night he hunkered down in the exact location of where his favorite corner USED to be. There was no cover there or warmth or deck box for that matter but he was in the exact position he was used to sleeping in. I had to move him to the deck box. The next night he made his way to the new location