Reoccurring sickness

[Gennifer11]

I'm sure some of you remember me posting on here about 6 months ago that my sully had a respiratory infection. The vet tried a series of shot antibiotics and when those didn't work he tried a oral 45 day antibiotic, which seemed to do the trick. However things didn't go as planned.

I recently bought a baby leopard tortoise who was diagnosed with septicemia and passed away shortly after. The torts had separate enclosures, but they did meet and I handled them without washing between.

During this time, my sulcacta started to get his RI symptoms back. Stuffy nose, trouble breathing, bubbles, and urinated less frequently. Not as bad as the first sickness. The vet told me to use the same oral antibiotics that cured his sickness the first time. After 2 weeks with no improvement, I took my sully into the vet again (today). $300 later, we were able to get a booger sample and stool sample to be sent to the lab. I won't know results for at least a week. Now here comes my questions for you!

I've done a lot of reading about the different common diseases and how RIs can easily reoccur after the initial diagnosis. However, if this is true... I'm not sure how I triggered his sickness. He's always been accustomed to 85F ambient temps, 80% humidity, healthy foods, long baths etc. The only thing I can think of is that he got a chill while outside one day or meeting a new tortoise took a strain on his immune system.

So I asked the vet if he was a believer in the high humidity practice for baby torts. He said depends on the species, he also recommended that I turn my sulcactas humidity down to about 60%.

I'm really not sure what's going on, im just praying that this will not be a lifetime issue. I gave you all the facts so now Any advice is welcome. Leo is my baby and these sicknesses are unacceptable.


The photo is from tonight, you can sorta see one nostril slightly smaller than the other. Most of the time he has clear boogers, but about a week ago there was a milky tint to it.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Gennifer
I've been raising Leopards for 15yrs and what I'm about to say isn't ment to make ... But I see your tort is covered in a towel ( not a paper towel ) and your a nice person that towel is washed in soap and you use fabric softener and I try to keep chemicals away from my torts .

 

[Tom]

Have you posted pics of your enclosure?
How are you maintaining an ambient of 85 all over?
What size and type enclosure?
How often and for how long is the tortoise out of the enclosure, like in the pic you posted in this thread?
How old is your tortoise now and what does it weigh?
Remind me of where you got this tortoise and anything about its history prior to you getting it.

 

[Gennifer11]

@Tom

Bought him from a pet store :/ her was fed iceberg lettuce, he was sick when I got him but I didn't realize it until a few weeks later, then he was brought to the vet. Diagnosed with an RI.

I used to have him in an open top enclosure when he was about 6 months old, then I found this site. You advised me to build a closed enclosure, since then his shell growth has been amazingly smooth.

Ambient temps are maintained by a rheostat thermometer, with CHEs and a heat a lamp.

He is outdoors for hours at a time during the day, usually he is out of the enclosure around the house for maybe a max of 30 mins at a time, not including bath times, the photo I posted was of him drying off after bath time

He currently weighs 216g, 1 week ago he was 200g, 6 months ago he was 50g ish

Attached photos are, the enclosre, the tort I had that passed away, treats, typical meals on days I work, on days I don't work he gets to be outside all day

 

[Gennifer11]

He also peed this out about 3 weeks ago. The vet said it should be nothing to worry about, he doesn't thing it was a calcium stone, just a urates build up.

Since peeing this thing out, my tort went a week without peeing and when he finally started peeing again, there were no urates attached, just clear liquid. It's been this way for about 2 weeks now. He pees every 4 days now and poops about every other day. He used to pee every night in the bath time before he was sick.

 

[Gennifer11]

And he will be 1 year old in about 2 weeks

 

[Gennifer11]

Leo was diagnosed with pin worms today. The doc called to tell me his stool sample had a few in there.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

What is it with vets and $300?
It's always $300!
Most tortoises have pin worms or round worms, etc.
Not a death warrant and not always necessary to treat.
As for an RI. The treatments must be for long enough to kill the whole virus. Otherwise it will likely return. Worse, it can build a resistance to the treatment and become very hard to stop.
These two are not related. Bacteria or virus and parasites that is. But a weakened system caused by one can help the other grow stronger.

 

[Gennifer11]

I agree^ I think that he caught pinworms and since I've never tested his poo he could have had them for a long time. So I think they might have knocked his immune system down enough to catch another RI.

I've been doing alot of reading about pinworms, it says they aren't really deadly just hard to get rid of because of the egg cycle. Can this parasite pass to humans? I also read about the human pinworms and they pretty much suck too, now I'm just worried that we could have caught it or something. I can't find a correlation between human and animal pinworms online anywhere.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Pin worms have been transmitted to dogs through dogs eating tort poop. Humans getting them through dirty hands seem logical.

 

[Gennifer11]

Also, what are some common ways to catch pinworms? I'm really trying to think of how he got them. Maybe from my deceased tortoise, or from the duck and goose poo outside that Leo loves to eat.

The vet costs way too much money, I'm started to get really upset about all these charges. The first time he got an RI, it was about $200. Then bringing my leopard tortoise is was another $200, then this last visit with leo being sick was $300. The vet visit is $90, the parasite poop test is $32, and the booger culture and sensitivity test was $170. I still haven't gotten the culture results back yet, who knows what new treatments will cost me. I'm glad I have a decent job... or leo wouldn't be getting the care he needs

 

[ZEROPILOT]

PM sent

 

[Gennifer11]

I have no new updates from the vet however I have been thinking a lot about my husbandry...
I have always had my tort at least at 80% humidity. But now I am starting to consider otherwise, since I think he may be prone to RIs whenever his immune system is low. My vet recommends 60% humidity at least until his sickness goes away. I think after the sickness goes away I will try to maintain 60-70% from then on. His shell growth has been incredibly smooth thus far so I will watch closely for any changes

 

[DawnH]

You poor thing. I bet you are sick with worry. If it were ME I would be sprinkling his food with FOOD GRADE diatomaceous earth. You can find it in most feed stores. This will help eradicate pin worms more naturally than pumping him full of meds again. If his wee little body is full of pin worms then I would assume it is making his immune system weak as well, leaving him more susceptible to RI's. That is just my .02cents! Since pin worms can live on surfaces for weeks (bleach everything you can and rinse like crazy and follow up with an Apple Cinder Vinegar rinse and let dry) and since reinfection is common I would treat for 90 days, including the yard/wherever his outdoor spot is.

 

[Gennifer11]

Dawn, how would you recommend cleaning outdoor areas? With the cider only?

This waiting game is driving me nuts. I wish the vet would call again. The last time they called, They did say that they won't treat the pinworms unless there is a large amount present, so I should have his poo tested in a month.

When I get word from the vet, and if I need to treat him, I'm thinking of temporarily changing the substrate. I'm almost willing to use paper towels since I will have to clean his pen constantly. But I'm open to better ideas

 

[DawnH]

I would use the food grade DE in the outdoor areas (I am assuming they are grassy.) Once it becomes wet (the DE) it becomes ineffective so you want to sprinkle it all around when dry. It will NOT hurt the tort and I think it is NUTS they won't treat the pinworms since YOU can get them just by holding the tort/cleaning his things, so can your pets if they eat fecal matter, kids if they handle the tort, etc.

Again - if it were ME I would treat the pinworm issue right now. Sprinkle food grade DE over everything like it's going out of style. Clean his areas with bleach and then a ACV rinse. Sprinkle his food with the food grade DE and watch him to see if he start perking up in a week or so. Due to their lifestyle (pinworms) you will need to do this for 90 days. No matter what - the food grade DE cannot HURT. One bit.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Hand wash obsessively. Anything out of his habitat wherever he has been may have invisible eggs on it, and they can survive for weeks. Wash those towels in hot water. DE the rug if he's been on it.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

It all makes me want to stop biting my fingernails.

 

[DawnH]

It all makes me want to stop biting my fingernails.

LOL! I am itching just reading this thread...

 

[Gennifer11]

Does anyone know anything about e coli in torts?