- Joined
- Feb 21, 2010
- Messages
- 8,803
Oh No A Hybrid!
Many of these comments border on near-hysteria, others simply state that hybridization is unethical. In one case, I remember a member gave the impression that the world would end if additional hybrids of any type are produced. Yet while writing such a post, that same person may have a domestic cat curled up in his or her lap. The writer is blissfully unaware that this cherished pet is most likely a descendant of an intra-specific hybrid, a cross between the African Wild Cat and the Asian Wild Cat . In any event, all of this would have taken place thousands of years ago and the world is still turning.
But one thing is pretty obvious in all these cases. Most people are completely ignorant of what a hybrid truly is, and even more ignorant of some of the benefits of hybridization. Sure, there can be a few 'downsides' to hybrids, but even these have little merit in an argument. Think about that while you go let the dog out. Did you know your canine friend is a hybrid? In his case, there appear to be so many ancestors which contributed to his genetic pool that scientists cannot even agree on which or how many there might be. Yet no dog-lover would ever consider abandoning Fido simply because he's not 100% pure Wolf!
SO …..lets shed some light shall we?
The WORD hybrid is a term applied by plant and animal breeders to the offspring of a cross between two different subspecies or species. Hybrids between different species within the same genus are sometimes known as interspecific hybrids. Hybrids between different sub-species within a species are known as intra-specific hybrids. Hybrids between different genera are sometimes known as intervener .
Hybridization between cultivars or varieties is often used in agriculture to obtain greater vigor or growth (heterosis). The first generation often shows greatly increased vigor and a better yield primarily because many genes for recessive, often deleterious, traits from one parent are masked by corresponding dominant genes in the other parent. Many of the hybrid reptiles produced in today's marketplace also show the positive effects of hybrid vigor. Larger babies, with stronger feeding responses, are often produced.
The offspring can display traits and characteristics of both parents. This is a common reason for hybridizing captive reptiles. Combining two forms with attractive appearances to create a third intermediate form which may be still more uniquely attractive is a common goal. Many breeders also use hybridization as a means to introduce desired mutations into species not currently exhibiting them. One of the first projects along these lines was the use of albino Ruthven's Kingsnakes to introduce the albino gene to the closely related Gray Banded Kingsnake . By carefully selecting the resulting offspring for appearance similar to the Gray Banded Kingsnake, breeders were able to produce albino specimens nearly identical to pure Gray Banded Kingsnakes.
The possibility of natural interbreeding and the production of fertile offspring is an indicator of the genetic closeness of the two species. An understanding of the true relationships between species can be enhanced through the process. DNA compatibility is certainly a more accurate indicator of close relationships than mere anatomy...
The offspring of an interspecific or intergeneric cross may be sterile. Sterility is often attributed to the different number of chromosomes the two species have, for example donkeys have 62 chromosomes, while horses have 64, mules and hinnies have 63. Mules, hinnies, and other normally sterile interspecific hybrids normally cannot produce viable gametes because the extra chromosome cannot make a homologous pair at meiosis, meiosis is disrupted, and viable sperm and eggs are not formed. However, fertility in both female mules and hinnies has been reported with a donkey as the father.
Now the other side of the coin……Loss of 'purity of race'. This is the most common argument presented against hybridization, and it has a bit of merit. However, such argument is often carried to extremes. It's generally broken into a few concepts, most of which are misleading:
"The genetic purity of the race will be lost and the resulting specimens will be unfit for repatriation into the wild population".
"The genetic purity of the captive population will be destroyed forever". Often this argument is presented along with the idea that genetic information about hybrids sold will be lost or misunderstood by keepers acquiring future generations of these animals.
First, let me state that anybody producing hybrids does indeed have an obligation to accurately label them as such to prevent accidental introduction of undesired or unwanted genes into the population. That's just professional etiquette. I think the same data should accompany sales of known pure races as well. We've got the same obligation to maintain details of purity as we do of impurity.
Here's a secret for you: Unless your animals are pure descendants of known 'locality specific' specimens their purity is already highly questionable anyway.
"Hybrids are trash". Yeah, whatever...... Sharing such a factually presented opinion carries zero weight with anybody. You should have joined the high school debate team, you might have learned a thing or two about presenting your point. Foreign car enthusiasts have been saying bad things about domestic vehicles for years now, and vice versa. Come to think of it, so have Ford vs. Chevy owners. Guess what: Nobody cares about your sticker showing some kid wearing a Ford shirt urinating on a Chevy when they are shopping for a new vehicle. There's millions of happy owners of all these brands of vehicles.
Moral of the story: If you don't like it don't buy it. This is America and that's your freedom of choice. So is expressing your opinion, just try not to sound like an idiot or waste other people's time when doing so….
* No offense You Guys or hard feelings….* but I wonder sometimes why they even open up the thread…..just to *****?
One last note, I myself did not breed these but, took them on as an interesting project from start to finish and LEARN from the experiences with them . So far the experience has been awesome and the torts are just wonderful little creatures.
Enjoy~
A few weeks old ( notcice the egg tooth)
Almost 1.5 years....current
JD~
"JUST MY OPINION"
I honestly think they are Sweeeet!
Many of these comments border on near-hysteria, others simply state that hybridization is unethical. In one case, I remember a member gave the impression that the world would end if additional hybrids of any type are produced. Yet while writing such a post, that same person may have a domestic cat curled up in his or her lap. The writer is blissfully unaware that this cherished pet is most likely a descendant of an intra-specific hybrid, a cross between the African Wild Cat and the Asian Wild Cat . In any event, all of this would have taken place thousands of years ago and the world is still turning.
But one thing is pretty obvious in all these cases. Most people are completely ignorant of what a hybrid truly is, and even more ignorant of some of the benefits of hybridization. Sure, there can be a few 'downsides' to hybrids, but even these have little merit in an argument. Think about that while you go let the dog out. Did you know your canine friend is a hybrid? In his case, there appear to be so many ancestors which contributed to his genetic pool that scientists cannot even agree on which or how many there might be. Yet no dog-lover would ever consider abandoning Fido simply because he's not 100% pure Wolf!
SO …..lets shed some light shall we?
The WORD hybrid is a term applied by plant and animal breeders to the offspring of a cross between two different subspecies or species. Hybrids between different species within the same genus are sometimes known as interspecific hybrids. Hybrids between different sub-species within a species are known as intra-specific hybrids. Hybrids between different genera are sometimes known as intervener .
Hybridization between cultivars or varieties is often used in agriculture to obtain greater vigor or growth (heterosis). The first generation often shows greatly increased vigor and a better yield primarily because many genes for recessive, often deleterious, traits from one parent are masked by corresponding dominant genes in the other parent. Many of the hybrid reptiles produced in today's marketplace also show the positive effects of hybrid vigor. Larger babies, with stronger feeding responses, are often produced.
The offspring can display traits and characteristics of both parents. This is a common reason for hybridizing captive reptiles. Combining two forms with attractive appearances to create a third intermediate form which may be still more uniquely attractive is a common goal. Many breeders also use hybridization as a means to introduce desired mutations into species not currently exhibiting them. One of the first projects along these lines was the use of albino Ruthven's Kingsnakes to introduce the albino gene to the closely related Gray Banded Kingsnake . By carefully selecting the resulting offspring for appearance similar to the Gray Banded Kingsnake, breeders were able to produce albino specimens nearly identical to pure Gray Banded Kingsnakes.
The possibility of natural interbreeding and the production of fertile offspring is an indicator of the genetic closeness of the two species. An understanding of the true relationships between species can be enhanced through the process. DNA compatibility is certainly a more accurate indicator of close relationships than mere anatomy...
The offspring of an interspecific or intergeneric cross may be sterile. Sterility is often attributed to the different number of chromosomes the two species have, for example donkeys have 62 chromosomes, while horses have 64, mules and hinnies have 63. Mules, hinnies, and other normally sterile interspecific hybrids normally cannot produce viable gametes because the extra chromosome cannot make a homologous pair at meiosis, meiosis is disrupted, and viable sperm and eggs are not formed. However, fertility in both female mules and hinnies has been reported with a donkey as the father.
Now the other side of the coin……Loss of 'purity of race'. This is the most common argument presented against hybridization, and it has a bit of merit. However, such argument is often carried to extremes. It's generally broken into a few concepts, most of which are misleading:
"The genetic purity of the race will be lost and the resulting specimens will be unfit for repatriation into the wild population".
"The genetic purity of the captive population will be destroyed forever". Often this argument is presented along with the idea that genetic information about hybrids sold will be lost or misunderstood by keepers acquiring future generations of these animals.
First, let me state that anybody producing hybrids does indeed have an obligation to accurately label them as such to prevent accidental introduction of undesired or unwanted genes into the population. That's just professional etiquette. I think the same data should accompany sales of known pure races as well. We've got the same obligation to maintain details of purity as we do of impurity.
Here's a secret for you: Unless your animals are pure descendants of known 'locality specific' specimens their purity is already highly questionable anyway.
"Hybrids are trash". Yeah, whatever...... Sharing such a factually presented opinion carries zero weight with anybody. You should have joined the high school debate team, you might have learned a thing or two about presenting your point. Foreign car enthusiasts have been saying bad things about domestic vehicles for years now, and vice versa. Come to think of it, so have Ford vs. Chevy owners. Guess what: Nobody cares about your sticker showing some kid wearing a Ford shirt urinating on a Chevy when they are shopping for a new vehicle. There's millions of happy owners of all these brands of vehicles.
Moral of the story: If you don't like it don't buy it. This is America and that's your freedom of choice. So is expressing your opinion, just try not to sound like an idiot or waste other people's time when doing so….
* No offense You Guys or hard feelings….* but I wonder sometimes why they even open up the thread…..just to *****?
One last note, I myself did not breed these but, took them on as an interesting project from start to finish and LEARN from the experiences with them . So far the experience has been awesome and the torts are just wonderful little creatures.
Enjoy~
A few weeks old ( notcice the egg tooth)
Almost 1.5 years....current
JD~
"JUST MY OPINION"
I honestly think they are Sweeeet!