Newbie Questions

[Jennifer Nicole]

Hi, so we are getting a leopard tortoise and I am new to the whole "being a tortoise mom" lol... I want to get all the equipment here and set up before I get him from the breeder (already have one picked out) so I need a little help. I am from the southern valley of California and it tends to stay really warm/hot here in the summer (100ish) and lows of like 35 (that's in F) in the winter (please note I already know I will have to build him a warming shed when he eventually goes outside). I keep my house at a constant 74F in the winter and 78F in the summer (I have some temperature sensitive family members). The table I am getting is 36" L X 18" W X 12" H. I know I will need a daytime heat lamp, a UVB (sunlight replacer) lamp, and I am not sure about a night lamp because my house stays so warm. So I guess my first questions are...

For that enclosure what is a good wattage for bulbs?
Do I need a night time one?
Do those dimmer thermostats work?
What humidity do you keep yours at and how? (I found conflicting articles about when they are babies)
How often do you feed them?
If you grow grass in trays inside... how do you do that?! Doesn't it need sun???

Also if you want to share pics of your table I would appreciate some idea set ups. Any information is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome to the Forum, Jennifer.

You can get quite a few pointers from this thread:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

And then our care sheet for leopards:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/leopard-tortoise-care-sheet.63792/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/

 

[TerrapinStation]

Hello and Welcome

As usual Yvonne has got you hooked up with the right links and threads.

This si the best place to be for up to date information to make you ad your tortoise happy and healthy!

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Hello, Jennifer, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
4' by 8' would be a minimum for all but a tiny hatchling and you may have trouble with your humidity using an open tortoise table.
is it a closed system ? Leopards need a humid environment.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/

 

[Jennifer Nicole]

Hello, Jennifer, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum.
4' by 8' would be a minimum for all but a tiny hatchling and you may have trouble with your humidity using an open tortoise table.
is it a closed system ? Leopards need a humid environment.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
and http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/

Ok I know this is bad... but its a low profile reptile tank (I plan to make it so he cannot see out. I am placing thin pieces of wood on the inside so he cannot see out. I eventually want to move him out of the house and into the backyard (once he gets big enough). So this is just until he out grows it (I also plan to build a movable outside box so he will get real sun and some fun outside but still be safe. The tank looks like this... I am not sure if this is the exact one but its got the breathing room like this

http://www.petsmart.com/reptile/sup...mphibian-low-terrarium-14957.html?cgid=500009

I feel like the one I got is bigger than this. Its really large but a lower tank if that makes any sense. Again I am going to make it so he can't see out. What % of humidity do you keep yours at? I haven't read the care sheets posted. That is my next thing to do.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I don't keep leopards, so my humidity for Greek tortoises is less than you require.
Tom recommends humidity of 80% with a humid hide of 95 to 100 %, i believe if you read his sheet for sulcatas and leopards. (care similar).
The care sheets here are excellent.

 

[Jennifer Nicole]

I read it and I am now confused about outside... once they get a certain age and you put them outside how do you get 80% humidity. Africa certainly does not stay that humid all year round.

 

[JoesMum]

I read it and I am now confused about outside... once they get a certain age and you put them outside how do you get 80% humidity. Africa certainly does not stay that humid all year round.

Once they get to a certain size then the need for higher humidity it decreased.

@Tom can give you the full rundown on how it works.

Broadly: The tortoises hatch at the start of the wet season to give them the best start. They spend a lot of time burrowing throughout their lives and the humidity inside the burrow is higher which compensates for the aridness on the surface in the dry season.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hi Jennifer

 

[Jennifer Nicole]

Once they get to a certain size then the need for higher humidity it decreased.

@Tom can give you the full rundown on how it works.

Broadly: The tortoises hatch at the start of the wet season to give them the best start. They spend a lot of time burrowing throughout their lives and the humidity inside the burrow is higher which compensates for the aridness on the surface in the dry season.

Ah ok... this is why I wanted to get some information from real people and not an article lol. Thank you. Has anyone ever tried one of those machines that pump humidity (fog) into the tank? If I have to keep it around 80% I wonder if that would be easier to maintain a constant level. Or if just misting the tank twice a day with some moss mixed into one side of the substrate would be enough

 

[cmacusa3]

Ah ok... this is why I wanted to get some information from real people and not an article lol. Thank you. Has anyone ever tried one of those machines that pump humidity (fog) into the tank? If I have to keep it around 80% I wonder if that would be easier to maintain a constant level. Or if just misting the tank twice a day with some moss mixed into one side of the substrate would be enough

The easiest thing is a closed chamber and you will be surprised how easy it is to maintain the humidity. The issue you will have with that tank is lights and a CHE will be difficult to close up because it very low sided.

 

[Jennifer Nicole]

The easiest thing is a closed chamber and you will be surprised how easy it is to maintain the humidity. The issue you will have with that tank is lights and a CHE will be difficult to close up because it very low sided.

CHE? Yes I will admit I am already confused on lighting. I know they need a uvb light (not a coil one), a UVA basking daytime, and a night time heat lamp. However it is the wattage that I am confused about. I just went to look around Petco (get a hands on feel) and the guy who was suppose to be a reptile expert walked up to me (note I do not trust information given by petco workers... they mean well but most have no idea what they are talking about) and tried to help... but again I am not relying on his info. I figured I would set up Max's tank next week (I am getting him in a couple of weeks) and test all the temps and if I have to just go buy a stronger light I will. But do you think 100w is a good starting point?

 

[JoesMum]

A 100W basking bulb is a good start

The following is a pre-prepared script that you might find helpful as an explanation of tortoise needs

Your tort needs:

1. A basking lamp
This must hang vertically, not at an angle. Basking is essential to raise your tortoise's core temperature so it can digest food. This must be on continuously for 12-14 hours and must not be used with a thermostat.

2. UVB light
Read the instructions for the source to see how close to the substrate it must be. UVB is essential so your tort can process dietary calcium and have healthy bones and shell. This must also be on for 12-14 hours.

Both 1 and 2 are available from the sun for those able to live outside.

UVB does not pass through glass or perspex(plexiglass) - light must be direct to be effective not through a window. Mesh screening can also interfere with UVB.

3. A minimum overnight temperature (see the care sheet for your species) and complete darkness at night to sleep.


Notes

(a) A Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) provides combined UVB and Basking. Alternatively you can use 2 bulbs: a tube UVB and a reflector bulb for basking (a household reflector - not low energy or halogen - from a hardware store will do the job; it's the wattage that counts) It must not be used with a thermostat, rheostat or dimmer.

(b) Ignore any references to UVA you may read - it's misleading marketing speak.

(c) Compact coil UVB harms tortoise eyes and must not be used.

(d) Basking and UVB should be on a timer so the light(s) are on for 12 hours a day. Temperature under the basking is regulated by its height above the substrate.

(e) Overnight, depending on your home, you may need additional heat. You get this from a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter) which must be on a thermostat.

(f) Torts have outstanding colour vision and love red and purple food. Coloured heat lamps colour tank decor and torts don't always apply intelligence to what they eat, resulting them in eating tank decor. Coloured bulbs should not be used.


Measurements

There are 4 important temperatures that you must know for an indoor enclosure.
- Directly under the basking lamp
- Warm side
- Cool side
- Overnight Minimum

You will need digital thermometers for accuracy.

A temperature gun thermometer (inexpensive from Amazon) measures temperature accurately in specific places like directly under the basking lamp.

A min/max thermometer so you know the min/max temperatures in your home by day and night.

You should also get a good digital probe hygrometer to measure humidity.

Thermometers and hygrometer that stick to the side of the enclosure tend to be less accurate.

 

[cmacusa3]

CHE? Yes I will admit I am already confused on lighting. I know they need a uvb light (not a coil one), a UVA basking daytime, and a night time heat lamp. However it is the wattage that I am confused about. I just went to look around Petco (get a hands on feel) and the guy who was suppose to be a reptile expert walked up to me (note I do not trust information given by petco workers... they mean well but most have no idea what they are talking about) and tried to help... but again I am not relying on his info. I figured I would set up Max's tank next week (I am getting him in a couple of weeks) and test all the temps and if I have to just go buy a stronger light I will. But do you think 100w is a good starting point?

CHE is Ceramic heat emitter used for night heat. You put it on a thermostat to control the heat to keep the enclosure over 80 degrees at night

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...er&sprefix=ceramic,aps,159&crid=297ZSWDQARK3V

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...d=1ILTW51HXH9RP&rh=i:aps,k:reptile+thermostat

I know it seems like a lot of info right now but at least you are setting this up before you get the tort. Keep reading all the care sheets for great info.

 

[Jennifer Nicole]

CHE is Ceramic heat emitter used for night heat. You put it on a thermostat to control the heat to keep the enclosure over 80 degrees at night

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_9_7?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=ceramic+heat+emitter&sprefix=ceramic,aps,159&crid=297ZSWDQARK3V

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_13?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=reptile+thermostat&sprefix=reptile+therm,aps,189&crid=1ILTW51HXH9RP&rh=i:aps,k:reptile+thermostat

I know it seems like a lot of info right now but at least you are setting this up before you get the tort. Keep reading all the care sheets for great info.

Thanks you guys are a big help. We have been looking into it for over a year and we were very cautious with making this commitment. It isn't like a goldfish that live a year. I wouldn't want someone to adopt me and not give me the best life possible... if I were an animal. We have two terriers and a beagle and they are more than just pets to us. They are family. If I am going to give a tortoise a home its going to be great home!

 

[TerrapinStation]

hey hey hey.... my goldfish lived for more that a year! The he went Kamikaze on me and jumped out of his own tank while we were at work. Poor guy.

 

[Jennifer Nicole]

hey hey hey.... my goldfish lived for more that a year! The he went Kamikaze on me and jumped out of his own tank while we were at work. Poor guy.

Lol! I had a fish do that. A sun Mollie I think it was called. Anyways put them in the tank and everything was great... next morning... the bigger one (had 2) was missing... looked everywhere in and out of the tank... so I thought (tank was on my dresser in HS).... a few years later I went to move the dresser and out drops this little bent dried fish.... apparently he jumped out and got wedged between the wall and dresser where I could not see. (I did look under the dresser). Poor guy.

 

[TerrapinStation]

RIP to our crazy fish who tried to fly.

 

[Jennifer Nicole]

Ok two more questions... I want to use coco fiber... that is suitable for leopards right? On the care sheet it says its ok. Do you add less water (I was going to use the brick ones) or just like how it says on the eco earth package?

And an off the wall question... we have some hibiscus plants... however they are from Home Depot... now I know they must spray their plants with something... so my question is how long after planting a plant from Home Depot/Lowes is it safe for them to eat the leaves/flowers. Also I do not think that the soil in the pots is organic. Pretty sure its straight up potting soil.