morals

[DoctorCosmonaut]

You don't need to spank someone, even a child, to earn their respect. If "spare the rod spoil the child" how do you explain the tons of children who turn out better than the kids who are spanked? Parenting methods are so much more than spanking, and they should be.

 

[ChiKat]

(the biggest threat, that would literally stop them in their tracks, was "I will tell Dad about this when he gets home"--again, not that Fred ever spanked any of them more than 5 times in their lives, but the very thought of it made them change their ways fast!)

haha that was the biggest threat for us too!! I remember my brother and I goofing off when I was little, and my mom threatening that my dad would be home soon Once he walked through the door we were angels (my poor mother!)
He never actually spanked us, but he was still intimidating

And let me reiterate the importance of the most effective child-rearing strategy: PRAISE them when they do the RIGHT thing, reward them sometimes for exhibiting good behaviors, and you will be amazed at how hard they will try to impress you again.

So true!! I need to remember this with my kindergarteners...there is a group of boys in the afternoon that I need to remember to praise more often. Most of my interaction with them is saying "if you are not going to be a good listener you may go back to your seat!"

Note the cringing many take just for basic discipline of children.

While I might not believe in physical discipline I am still a very strict teacher and I imagine I will be a strict parent as well.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

PS Your kids may have needed only a few spanks, but I needed one everyday practically and still rebelled, and my parents raised me just the same as they did my other siblings and we all turned out way different.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

You don't need to spank someone, even a child, to earn their respect. If "spare the rod spoil the child" how do you explain the tons of children who turn out better than the kids who are spanked? Parenting methods are so much more than spanking, and they should be.

I think the most recent study showed kids that were spanked turned out to be less likely to engage in violence or anti-social behavior. I'll try to google that tomorrow.

Certainly you can raise good kids without spanking. I just don't think it's always bad, either.

 

[terryo]

I'm not judging anyone here, as everyone has their own way of raising their children. I raised 5 sons, and never...never...used my hands on any of them. Never had to spank and never believed in it. If someone did something that was unacceptable, we sat down and talked about it and discussed ways to change things.
Maybe things were different then, but everyone had their jobs to do around the house, and everyone helped in the kitchen. They all love to cook now and can do a better job than I can. We all cooked supper together..one made the salad, one chopped the veggies...then we all had a production line doing the dishes. We laughed and told stories of our day while we ate, and played music while we did our dishes. After supper we all sat in the living room and told stories...I would start with a few words like....there was a girl...and then they would have to make up the rest of the story. We had one little TV and each night one kid got to pick something to watch. Two had paper routes after school and two of them walked dogs for the neighbors. The two older boys had to help the smaller ones with their homework. They were very protective of each other.....they still are.
We did a lot of hiking and camping together. Sometimes I would put up tents in the back yard and we would all sleep in them.
When they were young, they were deprived of material things, as we had no money then, and they had to work for anything they wanted. I think these things made them the men they are today. In a way I'm glad we had no money then, because it built character, to have to earn everything, and made them appreciate the things they got. I was very appreciative of the fact that when they were teenagers, they always included me in their life. When I was sad or depressed they would come in with all their friends and make me go to the movies with them. They all live close by today, in the same neighborhood, and we still are a very close family. Maybe the problem today is that people don't do enough with their kids or let them help make family decisions....I don't know....
Well now I'm really depressed................ where did all the years go............

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Yall should check out this really good 2008 newsweek article about how "Spanking may lead to aggression and sexual problems later in life" studies shohow http://www.newsweek.com/id/116788 ...

Maybe this thread should be split into a new one?

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Sorry Yvonne, this whole spanking thing is way off topic... lets all stop this spanking thing...

 

[Stephanie Logan]

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyl...akes_kids_perform_better_in_school_study.html

OK, I promise this is my last post about spanking, though I disagree with Jordan that this subject is unrelated to the original post. I think morals are very much related to respect, and respect is either increased or decreased (or has no effect ) by spanking as an influence upon children's development of respect for authority. My position is that rare spankings are not detrimental and can be helpful in setting the boundaries for behavior that all children crave.

Clearly, Jordan, being paddled with a wooden spoon every day was NOT effective to curb your behaviors, and your mom should have switched (oh, good pun!) to something else when it was clear the spoon did not influence you to change your behaviors.

The study above was widely panned by child psychology experts, who are virtually unanimous in their opinion that spanking is always bad, and just teaches children that it's OK to hit smaller people if you are bigger. I have always thought that is the most simplistic, convenient take on a rather complex subject, so I ignored it as I was busy raising my own very excellent kids. One critical feature of this study is that it's divided into spanking before age six, and spanking after age six. I would agree that after age six (or so), spanking becomes more of a power struggle and if your kid is still engaging in behaviors that merit spanking once he is in school, other things are going on and it may be time for some family counseling.

I don't object to the concept of raising children without spanking if it's possible and if you choose to. What I do differ with is this totally unproven "wisdom" that people who spank are sociopaths and sadists whose kids will grow up with their spirits broken and become violent criminals. That simply isn't true. Think of every generation of kids before Dr. Spock (1950s). All of the nation's leaders, presidents, inventors, scholars, etc. Read the Little House books by Laura Ingalls Wilder. If you didn't know your lessons in school, the teacher beat your palm with a ruler till it was black and blue, and when you went home, your mom or dad said, "If the teacher has to beat you again, I will give you a worse beating when you get home!" And we had MUCH lower rates of violent crime, and more respect for authority, if our nation's history is any indication.

Dr. Spock came around, and then the 60's, and suddenly it was all about freedom, and letting your kids "explore" and build their own characters without "square" parents restricting the little darlings from "finding themselves". Surely you see where I'm going here. Extremes=Bad, Moderation and Common Sense=Good.

Got to run and teach literacy (my favorite), so must pack up my stickers bag so I have plenty of goodies for the kids!

 

[TylerStewart]

Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up a red ant bed.
1960 - Ants die.
2010 - ATF, Homeland Security and the FBI are all called. Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. The FBI investigates his parents -- and all siblings are removed from their home and all computers are confiscated. Johnny's dad is placed on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

I just noticed this thread....

Another scenario to think about:
1980s - Kid gets caught with a condom in his wallet at school. School takes it away, and the kid begs the principal not to tell his parents.
2010 - School gives condoms to kids, and begs the kids not to tell their parents.

Of course spankings work.... There are plenty of people out there that think things can be done differently because "poor Timmy doesn't need his butt swatted," but come on..... It's not realistic, and it leads kids to not be respectful to their own parents. Spankings worked on me and they work on my kid (currently 7 years old) like a champ. It's not like a beat him or punch him in the face. Sure I can (and have) stood him in a corner for an hour to think about what he's done, but believe me, a imminent spanking threat is a much bigger deterrent. It's like a video camera versus a big guard dog when a criminal is thinking about breaking into a house or jumping over that wall. With the camera, you might get caught or might not, but with the dog, you know immediately it's going to hurt if you make that decision. In one situation the house gets robbed and in the other situation it doesn't.

 

[chadk]

Having been raised in a big family, having worked with kids over the years in various settings, and now having my own kids ranging from ages 16 to 2, I have lots of experience on disciplining kids in various ways. I will also note that my wife is a 'retired' (chose to retire at a young age to focus on raising the kids) social worker with a degree in child psychology.

Here is the bottom line in my experience. Kids and parents are all different. So there is not a one size fits all approach. Some families never spank. And in some of those, the outcome is awesome. In others of those, the kids are out of control and the family suffers. Same is true for families that do choose to use spanking as one of the forms of discipline.

With my own kids, each one responds differntly to different forms of discipline. For some of them, a stern look or a raised eyebrow can get the point accross. For some, a swat on the bottom is very effective. For one particulary stubborn boy, the swat is nothing to him and it has very little effect. So for each child, we have to be aware of what works and doesn't work. That is part of the challenge of parenting. You can read a book or an article or talk to a friend or your own parent for advice, but in the end, your kids are unique. And you as a parent are unique. Not all parents are as effective at certain types of discipline.

No matter what approach though, a huge factor is raising your kids in a loving way. A child raised who is spanked for every little thing and not shown love is a recipe for rebellion and worse later. Same for a child who is emotionally abused and not shown any love. Or a child that is just left to run wild with no boundaries or expectactions and no loving correction. It is hard work being a balanced loving and nurturing parent who is also able to set realistic boundaries, correct and discipline, and so forth...

 

[terryo]

Nice post Chad! You are right. Each child is different and needs a different approach. Also I think times, family situations, financial stability....everything comes into play here.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

And I forgot to say to terryo that her earlier post about how her family scraped by and came through hard times was very moving and sounded like a movie script!

Your boys were very lucky and it's especially sweet that they realized even when they were teenagers that you were doing the best you could with what you had, and showed their appreciation for your hard work.

Feeling nostalgic for the past means you have good memories, and the fact that your kids share those memories means you are a great mom. Soak it up, girl!

 

[chadk]

+1, I agree with Stephanie... again

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I raised 2 boys and spanked them. I actually used a leather belt with a Harley Davidson buckle and wasn't very careful which end I used. They both grew up to be really nice men. Were I to do it over I don't think I would spank with anything but my hand. I think Dr Spock really did change the way of raising kids for the worse.

I just want to say that I have had several dealings with DoctorCosmonaut and I think he and his girlfriend are the cream of their generation. They are really nice kids and have kind of changed my way of looking at their generation. They go to school and dress nicely and take showers and help old ladies. I am kinda making a joke here, but I really do think Jordan is a great kid and I am very glad to know him and very proud of the way he lives and acts.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Awww thanks Maggie! You are such a sweetheart! Anytime you need anything just call! I always enjoy seeing your pets and getting to chat with you.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

People become more aware of and adherent to morals as they age. Having children refocuses one's priorities so that ethics and role modeling become eminent.

Agreed?

Jordan, does Bob respect or just tolerate you? Has Maggie been teaching him good manners?

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

Bob's always acted well around me (Maggie must have spanked him a few times ), although he did decorate once before I came over and saw him (decided to mess his room all up). lol

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Awww thanks Maggie! You are such a sweetheart! Anytime you need anything just call! I always enjoy seeing your pets and getting to chat with you.

That's exactly why I was buttering you up. I want some building help!...

One more thing about spanking. My parents had "the red stick". It was a flat stick maybe 3 inches across and heavy and just the right length to get a good swing. They said it was painted red so it wouldn't show the blood. ha ha, It hurt so bad, it made me pee when one of my parents reached for it from on top of the refrigerator. I actually can only remember being hit with it a couple of times. But the fear of it made me much better at hiding my 'badness'. It didn't make me any better. But after I was about 10 I can remember my mother swinging one of her crutches like a baseball bat and hitting both my brother and I with it. It was one of those metal crutches, my mother had polio and limped and had to walk with those crutches. My nightmares to this day have the sound of those crutches in them ugh! clink... scrape... clink... scrape... (her leg dragged)

I couldn't sleep so I thought I'd peruse the forum, but I am giving myself nightmares.

 

[Yvonne G]

OMG, Maggie! Did you have to bring me back those memories?

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Polio was a scourge that crippled and killed so many; my mom remembers hearing about the vaccine in 1955 when she was pregnant with her first child, and she was SO grateful that her kids wouldn't be vulnerable to that terrible disease.

Fred's dad lost his lower leg to a land mine in WWII, and growing up Fred and his 5 brothers had one big bedroom over the garage (3 sets of bunk beds). When they were up past bed time having pillow fights or peeing out their window, they'd hear their dad coming up the stairs: "Step, drag, step, drag, step, drag..." his slow pace would give them about one minute to get everything under a bed and themselves inside "asleep"...