Less scutes than normal-significance?

[Tortoise]

Hi
I am going to purchase 2 baby Hermanns soon. I was told one had an extra scute so I was going to take that one as they seem to be mostly female.
I just got sent photos and one tortoise seems to actually be missing scutes.
Not damaged just developed differently.
has anyone had this happen and is there a sex more likely to experience this?

I don't mind a different tortoise as long as he or she will remain healthy and the scute thing doesn't indicate a problem.

It has from nose to tail only 3 scutes rather than the typical 5.

Thanks

 

[yagyujubei]

I personally like the normal number, myself. I think both should be priced below regular price. I haven't heard of either linked to any other problems. I kinda think of them as "irregulars"

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Interesting...no idea if this'll mean health problems later in life or if it merely makes it unique. Hopefully, if there'll likely be issues, someone more knowledgable will speak up.

 

[Kristina]

JD has a Redfoot with less than normal scutes. It appears to be perfectly healthy in all other respects.

Well Mike...... this lil gem isnt a " true splity" ...but unique nevertheless.......with a symmetrical top ( less one scute) and one extra small scute on her side.... Pretty Neat~o in my book

JD~

" KEEP ON TORT~N"

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Show-us-your-split-scutes#axzz1RjqbyTIv

Many tortoises with split scutes are female, but they can be male as well. I highly doubt that having less than normal scutes shows any sort of sexual dimorphism.

 

[Tortoise]

Here is a pic of the baby...

---

JD has a Redfoot with less than normal scutes. It appears to be perfectly healthy in all other respects.

Well Mike...... this lil gem isnt a " true splity" ...but unique nevertheless.......with a symmetrical top ( less one scute) and one extra small scute on her side.... Pretty Neat~o in my book

JD~

" KEEP ON TORT~N"

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Show-us-your-split-scutes#axzz1RjqbyTIv

Many tortoises with split scutes are female, but they can be male as well. I highly doubt that having less than normal scutes shows any sort of sexual dimorphism.

Hi
I like the pattern on the red foot-really pretty.
I do tend to be attracted to "different!"
Thanks for posting pics-its really interesting.
Louise

 

[Kristina]

I would buy that baby in a HEARTBEAT!!! Get it get it get it!!!!

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks Kristina
Yes I am definitely going with the unique one and maybe take my chances on the others. I just posted another thread about anal scute significance in the Hermanns section just in case there are subtle differences as I now have baby bottom pics of the Hermanns to choose from

Thanks
Louise

 

[Jacqui]

Hey, if you don't want it I do!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Thanks Kristina
Yes I am definitely going with the unique one and maybe take my chances on the others. I just posted another thread about anal scute significance in the Hermanns section just in case there are subtle differences as I now have baby bottom pics of the Hermanns to choose from

Thanks
Louise

VERY cool looking little thang!

 

[egyptiandan]

There usually is no significance to having less scutes when it comes to health problems. That being said, Hermanns are notorious for having less vertebral scutes. This comes from them being inbred and the trait has been fixed in quite a few lines (it's a genetic trait). With only 3 vertebral scutes, I'd be worried about how inbred this line is.

Danny

 

[Vizzle]

This is quite common in captive bred tortoises. If it is missing a scute on one side the price should be reduced. If both sides are missing scutes then it should be priced higher. They are trying to make this a new subspecies.

 

[Tortoise]

This is quite common in captive bred tortoises. If it is missing a scute on one side the price should be reduced. If both sides are missing scutes then it should be priced higher. They are trying to make this a new subspecies.

The scutes missing are in the middle-which way would you go then?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

This is quite common in captive bred tortoises. If it is missing a scute on one side the price should be reduced. If both sides are missing scutes then it should be priced higher. They are trying to make this a new subspecies.

A new sub-species?

 

[Kristina]

And who is "they?"

 

[Sky2Mina]

Cool pattern! It looks like arrows. Very unique.
I've seen a sulcata which had only 1 big scute at the back, instead of 3. Looked healthy and went for a higher price (in Thailand that is).
You should get it, she looks perfectly healthy.

 

[River14]

I feel every tortoise should be priced the same in its age species catergory even a sad mutation. There is no such thing as a cheaper tortoise because of mere cosmetic reasons, or there shouldn't be. Each and every one deserves the same chances no matter how many "scutes". Im thinking this is exactly whats wrong with treating them as a "product" instead of a living breathing little soul.

Extra scutes or less wont make a blind bit of difference to a pet.

I was at shop selling highly illegal Madagascarien radiated tortoises and they had them priced to the number of stripes, clarity of stripes and even geometrics of pattern. This is heinous to me and very sad. Considering they are almost wiped out in their native land. Every one who ownes one is privileged to own one no matter what it looks like, and is responsible to try and further the breed in a responsible breeding programe with no in-breeding. An extra scute here and there is possible but also maybe an indiction that in-breeding has been used and you should try and correct this as a reponsible owner or leave well alone.

Im steadfastly sure if you want a tortoise it shouldn't be one lonely George but a couple and you should make all arrangements that the responsible non in-breeding arrangements are met. Or rather find another pet. Mice are nice. A mouse is also not a desposable toy BTW.

This is

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I feel every tortoise should be priced the same in its age species catergory even a sad mutation. There is no such thing as a cheaper tortoise because of mere cosmetic reasons, or there shouldn't be. Each and every one deserves the same chances no matter how many "scutes". Im thinking this is exactly whats wrong with treating them as a "product" instead of a living breathing little soul.
Extra scutes or less wont make a blind bit of difference to a pet.

I was at shop selling highly illegal Madagascarien radiated tortoises and they had them priced to the number of stripes, clarity of stripes and even geometrics of pattern. This is heinous to me and very sad. Considering they are almost wiped out in their native land. Every one who ownes one is privileged to own one no matter what it looks like, and is responsible to try and further the breed in a responsible breeding programe with no in-breeding. An extra scute here and there is possible but also maybe an indiction that in-breeding has been used and you should try and correct this as a reponsible owner or leave well alone.

Im steadfastly sure if you want a tortoise it shouldn't be one lonely George but a couple and you should make all arrangements that the responsible non in-breeding arrangements are met. Or rather find another pet. Mice are nice. A mouse is also not a desposable toy BTW.

This is

Agreed!

 

[yagyujubei]

In my opinion, by paying full price for one, you are rewarding the breeder for producibg less than perfect specimens. This is an incubation issue, thought top be brought about by too high incubation temperatures. If the breeder uses higher than ideal temps in an attempt to produce more females (usually to increase price)and this is thr result, by buying it, you are saying it's OK. Maybe less will be produced if his wallet becomes lighter. Would you pay full price for a three legged dog?

I feel every tortoise should be priced the same in its age species catergory even a sad mutation. There is no such thing as a cheaper tortoise because of mere cosmetic reasons, or there shouldn't be. Each and every one deserves the same chances no matter how many "scutes". Im thinking this is exactly whats wrong with treating them as a "product" instead of a living breathing little soul.

Extra scutes or less wont make a blind bit of difference to a pet.

I was at shop selling highly illegal Madagascarien radiated tortoises and they had them priced to the number of stripes, clarity of stripes and even geometrics of pattern. This is heinous to me and very sad. Considering they are almost wiped out in their native land. Every one who ownes one is privileged to own one no matter what it looks like, and is responsible to try and further the breed in a responsible breeding programe with no in-breeding. An extra scute here and there is possible but also maybe an indiction that in-breeding has been used and you should try and correct this as a reponsible owner or leave well alone.

Im steadfastly sure if you want a tortoise it shouldn't be one lonely George but a couple and you should make all arrangements that the responsible non in-breeding arrangements are met. Or rather find another pet. Mice are nice. A mouse is also not a desposable toy BTW.

This is

 

[River14]

Im not sure of the disgusting tricks of breeders. But I would certainly adopt a three legged dog off the streets if I was able and in a position to properly care for it.

Im not entirely worried about the "breeder" they are just trying to make cash out of a very endangered species right? And we should recognise this at start.

I as the so called "consumer" of a precious animal have the power to decide if I want to perpetuate the system in place or not?

This is the hard part that takes much thought research and decision, right?

If none of this comes into it one shouldn't buy a tortoise at all, no matter what the breed.

All breeds are under threat take that as a given. If you are not reponsible enough to own one in the circumstances these animals find themselves as species then simply my answere is dont buy one.

End of story.

 

[Tortoise]

I feel every tortoise should be priced the same in its age species catergory even a sad mutation. There is no such thing as a cheaper tortoise because of mere cosmetic reasons, or there shouldn't be. Each and every one deserves the same chances no matter how many "scutes". Im thinking this is exactly whats wrong with treating them as a "product" instead of a living breathing little soul.
Extra scutes or less wont make a blind bit of difference to a pet.

I was at shop selling highly illegal Madagascarien radiated tortoises and they had them priced to the number of stripes, clarity of stripes and even geometrics of pattern. This is heinous to me and very sad. Considering they are almost wiped out in their native land. Every one who ownes one is privileged to own one no matter what it looks like, and is responsible to try and further the breed in a responsible breeding programe with no in-breeding. An extra scute here and there is possible but also maybe an indiction that in-breeding has been used and you should try and correct this as a reponsible owner or leave well alone.

Im steadfastly sure if you want a tortoise it shouldn't be one lonely George but a couple and you should make all arrangements that the responsible non in-breeding arrangements are met. Or rather find another pet. Mice are nice. A mouse is also not a desposable toy BTW.

This is

Agreed!

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate it. Yes I am familiar with tortoises and have kept them for years. I don't need mice but we have a few very spoiled gerbils for the children-they are super creatures.
Nothing here is considered disposable!

In regard to price-I am not expecting a lower price. The breeder I am using doesn't sex the babies anyway so is not charging differently for either sex, also I feel his prices are very fair and I am prepared to pay the same price for the irregular baby.he could charge double here if he wished and they would still sell.(he is not greedy)
Its not his intention to produce different as some of his regular customers may refuse irregular because its different.

Price is irrelevant the whole focus of my thread was to determine if a tortoise is as healthy with a different carapace pattern etc not whether I can get a discount.

I see lots of US breeders charging a little less but not a significant drop and if that keeps the average customer happy then so be it.

We don't have enough torts here to have come to that.
They are all precious and deserve the best, that's a fact.