is uv-b needed ??

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mintybum

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so i'm reasearching a new table for my new arrivals next weekend, at present we have a uvb spot and a ceramic heat bulb, i've been talking to a breeder who says they don't need uv-b but it can be obtained through their diet and the sun, i'm in the uk so obviously they're not outdoor till summer time, what's everyone elses views on this.

julie:shy:
 

cherylim

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You'll need the UV light. Here in the UK, we simply can't get them out in the sun during the winter - it's too cold. They need UV light all year, and in the summer they can get natural light as well. UV rays won't travel through surfaces like glass, either, so you don't want to avoid getting a UV light in the hope that some will get into your house.
 

cherylim

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Apologies,

I've just seen that you're talking about Redfoots. For some reason I had in mind that you were getting a Mediterranean species. Ignore my comments - I'm not an expert and certainly not on RFs!
 

Angrycowgoesmoo

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Yes they still need UVB don't listen to that guy he probably doesn't know. I don't think they can get it from there diet but they can get it from the sun but still get them a UVB bulb. I have one for my red foot right now too :3 Also I was reading through the caresheet and I'm pretty sure redfoots do need basking spots because mine basks most of the time. He just started basking and I was like :O because he barely comes out (he is a baby :3) but I don't think the guy knows much about red foots also I kept reading on and the guy said he never soaks them but I think it's good to soak them once in a while. You should look at the red foot care sheet here :) It seems more helpful and not so FREAKIN OVER COLORED!! I kinda hate when care sheets have like different colors dunno why seems unprofessional to me.
 

jackrat

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Angrycowgoesmoo said:
Yes they still need UVB don't listen to that guy he probably doesn't know. I don't think they can get it from there diet but they can get it from the sun but still get them a UVB bulb. I have one for my red foot right now too :3 Also I was reading through the caresheet and I'm pretty sure redfoots do need basking spots because mine basks most of the time. He just started basking and I was like :O because he barely comes out (he is a baby :3) but I don't think the guy knows much about red foots also I kept reading on and the guy said he never soaks them but I think it's good to soak them once in a while. You should look at the red foot care sheet here :) It seems more helpful and not so FREAKIN OVER COLORED!! I kinda hate when care sheets have like different colors dunno why seems unprofessional to me.
Do you know,the fellow you are talking about is a member of our forum? No? Well he is. He is also a good friend who has been very successful at breeding,hatching and raising redfoots for a number of years. He has been a big help to a number of us when we were first getting started with redfoots. You don't think he knows that much about redfoots? What are you basing this on? A caresheet that is "FREAKIN OVER COLORED"? Why don't you e-mail him,get to know him. You might be surprised what he could teach you. And isn't that why we are all here,to learn?
 

terryo

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I've been raising my Cherry Heads on that care sheet for almost 5 years now. I have my oldest one since she was 1 month old. This is what she looks like today from being raised on that care sheet. Terry K. spent endless hours answering my millions of questions when I first got her. He was very patient with me and because of his help my Cherry Heads are beautiful and healthy.
029-18.jpg
 

mintybum

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mintybum said:
http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm
this is the breeder i'm referring to, he says the d3 can be obtained thorugh diet.

i do think the proof is in the pudding though, his torts are beautiful and after i emailed him he was very helpful indeed, everyone has different regimes and i certainly wouldn't jump on someone because theirs was different to mine.
 

ascott

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I have just chimed in on the discussion here....I went to the site (turtletary) and am TOTALLY 100% going to follow the care outlined...I am new to these guys buy not only does he have proof of what he says, but it makes perfect sense to their natural environment....I have been misting the heck out of the little ones, have been having them out under my Mimosa tree (as in the am they get the sun rising along with some shade...high noon they are shaded with a glimpse of light through the tree with the breeze...then by 2 they are getting some of the afternoon sun...but always have shade to go to)....I started their day with a misting, after the day heated up a bit I ran the sprinkler/lightly for about 5 minutes right over them and their temporary outdoor spaces...then before I put them indoors in their enclosure I added some warmish water to their substrate (which at present is good ole clay type dirt mixed with organic soil) which brought up the humidity and I turned on their purple heat bulb and they both went in and walked/sat in their water dish then each proceeded to a hide...it was nice to read what was on the site is in line with what I was doing....the best part to me was the reassurance that the UVB is not required (I have had them out during the day since they came to me) and the diet section was reassuring as well and well written, easy to remember...for me that is important LOL LOL :D
 

mintybum

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ascott said:
I have just chimed in on the discussion here....I went to the site (turtletary) and am TOTALLY 100% going to follow the care outlined...I am new to these guys buy not only does he have proof of what he says, but it makes perfect sense to their natural environment....I have been misting the heck out of the little ones, have been having them out under my Mimosa tree (as in the am they get the sun rising along with some shade...high noon they are shaded with a glimpse of light through the tree with the breeze...then by 2 they are getting some of the afternoon sun...but always have shade to go to)....I started their day with a misting, after the day heated up a bit I ran the sprinkler/lightly for about 5 minutes right over them and their temporary outdoor spaces...then before I put them indoors in their enclosure I added some warmish water to their substrate (which at present is good ole clay type dirt mixed with organic soil) which brought up the humidity and I turned on their purple heat bulb and they both went in and walked/sat in their water dish then each proceeded to a hide...it was nice to read what was on the site is in line with what I was doing....the best part to me was the reassurance that the UVB is not required (I have had them out during the day since they came to me) and the diet section was reassuring as well and well written, easy to remember...for me that is important LOL LOL :D

i do agree, i just worry as i'm in the uk so my torts don't get out in the winter months, i think his site is great to, easy to understand and beautiful pics. he's obviously very dedicated to them.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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I don't keep Redfoots, but Terry is a member here as has been already reported, and I have personally learned a lot about Redfoot care from him. I don't have any intention on getting any Redfoots, I just wanted to learn, and learn I did. Your Redfoots can be raised according to his care sheets. I trust his judgment and have seen many pix of his animals and they are beautiful...
 

Tom

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Terry K, the owner of that website is a long time member here, and a very accomplished redfoot keeper and breeder. He's also a friend of mine.

... don't be afraid to think outside the box.

Oops. I'm late to the party again. I read post number five several hours ago and just now had time to reply to it.
 

Madkins007

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Red-foots need vitamin D as much as any other animal does, and they can indeed get SOME of their vitamin D needs from their diet.

For example, mushrooms and fungi exposed to natural light are high in vitamin D2, a less effective version of the vitamin. On the downside, they would need to eat their body weight in mushrooms almost daily to get the necessary dose. Some meats contain D as well- but again, almost all of them are rather low in the actual dosage and cannot meet the animals full dosage needs. (Just FYI- things like cat food do contain some vitamin D, but not very much).

Some keepers and breeders think of Red-foots as a deep forest animal, and of baby torts as hiding in deep cover all day, so not getting natural UVB light that creates D3 in the skin. Neither seems to be true in the wild- Red-foots are more of a savanna species, and they are often observed basking. They almost certainly do not need a long or intense exposure to UVB lighting to get the proper dose, but they do seem to benefit from UVB as much as any other species.

While we do not have the pyramiding issue completely locked down in what causes and prevents it, one thing that seems to really help is a good 'bone building' diet in the early part of life- good doses of calcium and vitamin D, proper ratios of phosphorous, iron, magnesium, etc., as well as warmth, humidity, proper hydration, exercise, and sleep.

There is also some evidence that early exposures to the proper levels of UVB can help with dealing with the adjusting seasons and reproduction in the way the UV light stimulates the pineal and other glands.

(Terry, aka 'NERD', is an experienced keeper, breeder, and nice guy. Even amongst experienced breeders, however, there are differing opinions and practices. Just because a given plan works for one does not automatically mean it will work for everyone. You need to take climates, local food availabilities, etc. into consideration as well.)
 

terryo

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Madkins007 said:
Red-foots need vitamin D as much as any other animal does, and they can indeed get SOME of their vitamin D needs from their diet.

For example, mushrooms and fungi exposed to natural light are high in vitamin D2, a less effective version of the vitamin. On the downside, they would need to eat their body weight in mushrooms almost daily to get the necessary dose. Some meats contain D as well- but again, almost all of them are rather low in the actual dosage and cannot meet the animals full dosage needs. (Just FYI- things like cat food do contain some vitamin D, but not very much).

Some keepers and breeders think of Red-foots as a deep forest animal, and of baby torts as hiding in deep cover all day, so not getting natural UVB light that creates D3 in the skin. Neither seems to be true in the wild- Red-foots are more of a savanna species, and they are often observed basking. They almost certainly do not need a long or intense exposure to UVB lighting to get the proper dose, but they do seem to benefit from UVB as much as any other species.

While we do not have the pyramiding issue completely locked down in what causes and prevents it, one thing that seems to really help is a good 'bone building' diet in the early part of life- good doses of calcium and vitamin D, proper ratios of phosphorous, iron, magnesium, etc., as well as warmth, humidity, proper hydration, exercise, and sleep.

There is also some evidence that early exposures to the proper levels of UVB can help with dealing with the adjusting seasons and reproduction in the way the UV light stimulates the pineal and other glands.

(Terry, aka 'NERD', is an experienced keeper, breeder, and nice guy. Even amongst experienced breeders, however, there are differing opinions and practices. Just because a given plan works for one does not automatically mean it will work for everyone. You need to take climates, local food availabilities, etc. into consideration as well.)

I absolutely agree with Marks post. And, I'm by NO means telling you to stick with this care sheet, as there are many care sheets out there and hardly any of them agree....conflicting advice is so hard to cope with, especially when you are a new tortoise keeper. I'm only telling you what worked for me for almost 5 years. Everyone has their own choice. There are people on this forum who do not use UVB at all, and some who insist on it. In the Winter when I have to take mine in I do use a low wt. UVB......it can't hurt! I have always loved Terry K.'s (NERD) care sheet, and I will always stick by that choice. I found it very easy to follow, especially when at the time, I was so confused.
 

Angrycowgoesmoo

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jackrat said:
Angrycowgoesmoo said:
Yes they still need UVB don't listen to that guy he probably doesn't know. I don't think they can get it from there diet but they can get it from the sun but still get them a UVB bulb. I have one for my red foot right now too :3 Also I was reading through the caresheet and I'm pretty sure redfoots do need basking spots because mine basks most of the time. He just started basking and I was like :O because he barely comes out (he is a baby :3) but I don't think the guy knows much about red foots also I kept reading on and the guy said he never soaks them but I think it's good to soak them once in a while. You should look at the red foot care sheet here :) It seems more helpful and not so FREAKIN OVER COLORED!! I kinda hate when care sheets have like different colors dunno why seems unprofessional to me.
Do you know,the fellow you are talking about is a member of our forum? No? Well he is. He is also a good friend who has been very successful at breeding,hatching and raising redfoots for a number of years. He has been a big help to a number of us when we were first getting started with redfoots. You don't think he knows that much about redfoots? What are you basing this on? A caresheet that is "FREAKIN OVER COLORED"? Why don't you e-mail him,get to know him. You might be surprised what he could teach you. And isn't that why we are all here,to learn?

well I just don't like those caresheets where it's like all green red and yellow. Maybe if it's like 2 colors then it would be fine. But I don't think he would change it anyways
 

terryo

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This is his old care sheet that I've used. Very simple, easy to follow with pictures. Look at the top, and click on the appropriate age group for diet, housing...etc.. It was very helpful to me.
 

Redfoot NERD

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Angrycowgoesmoo said:
jackrat said:
Angrycowgoesmoo said:
Yes they still need UVB don't listen to that guy he probably doesn't know. I don't think they can get it from there diet but they can get it from the sun but still get them a UVB bulb. I have one for my red foot right now too :3 Also I was reading through the caresheet and I'm pretty sure redfoots do need basking spots because mine basks most of the time. He just started basking and I was like :O because he barely comes out (he is a baby :3) but I don't think the guy knows much about red foots also I kept reading on and the guy said he never soaks them but I think it's good to soak them once in a while. You should look at the red foot care sheet here :) It seems more helpful and not so FREAKIN OVER COLORED!! I kinda hate when care sheets have like different colors dunno why seems unprofessional to me.
Do you know,the fellow you are talking about is a member of our forum? No? Well he is. He is also a good friend who has been very successful at breeding,hatching and raising redfoots for a number of years. He has been a big help to a number of us when we were first getting started with redfoots. You don't think he knows that much about redfoots? What are you basing this on? A caresheet that is "FREAKIN OVER COLORED"? Why don't you e-mail him,get to know him. You might be surprised what he could teach you. And isn't that why we are all here,to learn?

well I just don't like those caresheets where it's like all green red and yellow. Maybe if it's like 2 colors then it would be fine. But I don't think he would change it anyways

Hey 'cow'!

I had a couple redfoots that were hatchlings in '05 - see the date in lower right

2and3monthsoldII.jpg


I still have the one on the left and he's a male.. and at 5 years old he looked like this -

a1JAN2010GROWTH.jpg


105maleF.jpg


105MALELegs.jpg


105maleP.jpg


How's that growth rate compare with yours at 5? No need to be angry ... be happy!!!

Terry K aka NERD / Turtletary - I'll figure it out one of these days.. maybe.
 
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Claireabbo

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here in CO we cant put them out in the winter. so if the temp is like it is over here then you will need a UVB light :)
 

bfmorris

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Laura said:
Vit D can be obtained thru diet...

That's absolutely correct. Winning the war on rickets would not have occured in the way it did, but that said, all tortoises indoors or out, can do well on dietary D3 in conservative amounts in conjunction with a good diet.
 
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