First time Tortoise owner.

NamedNut

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
65
Location (City and/or State)
SW Washington
Hello and Happy Saturday! :tort:

We recently got our first tortoise, Murray the Russian from a big box store (I know, but he was too cute). Over the past 12-18 months I've been loosely researching Testudo and the care requirements in preparation. We were not planning on getting Murray when we found him but... you know how that goes. Original plan was to get captive bred, I'm still unsure about our decision because I know that the odds are very high he's wild... but we still love him and want to give him his best life in captivity he can have. Background on me; I live in SW Washington (state) this is my first reptile, I've been keeping fish specifically Cichlids for about 20 years now. Have had as small as 2.5 gallon clear up to 240 gallon aquariums, currently have one 120 gallon and have a second that will be getting setup soon. I take my fish keeping seriously and try to provide the best eco systems I can, I intend to the do the same in this new world to me called Reptiles. I'm enthusiastic about my animals and their care. We also have a cat and dog, both will not be allowed near the tortoise for obvious safety concerns.

We've had him for a week now (4/14/23), he's currently housed in a "large" Rubbermaid tote with the essentials and nothing more. UVB/Heat combo lamp, basking rock, shallow terracotta water dish, terracotta pot for a hide, cypress mulch for substrate. His light is on from 6:30AM - 8PM, we feed him at about 7:30AM and remove the food after 3 hours or so. We've been feeding him a fairly even mix of organic store bought romain lettuce, collard green, red dandelion greens and kale. and give him a dandelion flower ever couple of days. Today I'm going to add a cuddle bone in with him, I've removed the hard backing. Our plan is to soak him on Sundays and Wednesdays. I weigh him after each soak; he was 392 grams two days after we got him and 399 grams 5 days after. From what I've read this leads me to believe that he's full grown, thoughts?

Over the past week I've built him a tortoise table, just waiting for the orchid bark to arrive early next week then he'll be moving in. We let him explore it a bit last night. The table is 4' x 8', walls are 19" tall, there will be 3" of substrate throughout and some areas will be slightly deeper. There's a ramp to an upper section above his "house", this is where his basking rock will be, according to my math that gives him about 38.5 sq. ft. I'll be ordering a UV index meter late next week to help dial in his lights and am prepared to buy a 2' two lamp T5 HO fixture which I'll put one or two 10.0 UVB tubes in. I also have two more (three total) 250w rated hanging fixtures to use as needed. Initially his table will be somewhat boring (in my opinion), but I plan to add plants, rocks, wood, etc. over time to dress it up for him.

It's very important to me that my family and I give Murry the Russian tortoise the best life he can have in captivity. I've scheduled a vet wellness exam at a semi local exotic vet, however they're booked out and that's nearly 6 weeks from now. I've been lurking on this site for 18 months now, it's evident that there're some very experienced keepers here. I have three questions listed below, but please school me, I won't take offense!

What am I doing wrong?

What could I do better?

What would you do differently?

Thank you for your time and I look forward to talking with you all!
-NamedNut
 

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Yvonne G

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Hi, and welcome!

Russians need a lot of room to wander. They're hard wired to wander great distances searching for food (even though you are now providing the food). When not allowed the space, they dig at the corners, climb the walls, surf the walls. Your best bet is to figure out a way to set up a safe outdoor area for him or her.
 

NamedNut

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
65
Location (City and/or State)
SW Washington
Hi, and welcome!

Russians need a lot of room to wander. They're hard wired to wander great distances searching for food (even though you are now providing the food). When not allowed the space, they dig at the corners, climb the walls, surf the walls. Your best bet is to figure out a way to set up a safe outdoor area for him or her.
Thank you for this advice Yvonne. I will definitely be working on an outdoor enclosure once it's dries outside. I live in the PNW and it rains most of the year here. What would you consider the lowest temperature and highest temperature range to be when housed outdoor?

I'm hoping that the tortoise table will meet his wandering needs when housed in it. If I notice him exhibiting the behaviors you mentioned then I will look into expanding his table. Luckily the room the table is in I could double or triple the size, however it will require some major rearranging - but want what's best for the Tortoise.
 

NamedNut

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
65
Location (City and/or State)
SW Washington

NamedNut

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
65
Location (City and/or State)
SW Washington
Update: I just ordered "Herbal Tortoise Hay" and "Broadleaf Testudo Seed Mix" from Tortoise Supply.

:)
Sorry to spam - thought there was an edit function I could use.

Also just ordered ZooMed "Reptivite without D3" and "Repti Calcium without D3"

Plan to start using calcium twice a week and reptivite once a week as mentioned on Tom's post found here: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

I want to give Tom a big thank you, he appears to do an outstanding job at conveying information. :)
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
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Update: I just ordered "Herbal Tortoise Hay" and "Broadleaf Testudo Seed Mix" from Tortoise Supply.

:)
I think you are going to be a fantastic tortoise keeper. The table looks great.

Your questions:
What am I doing wrong?
All looks pretty good. I see no glaring errors. Nothing that will harm your tortoise.

What could I do better?
I would ditch the MVB and use a regular incandescent flood bulb instead. Also, no need for a dual 10.0 bulb set up. The Arcadia Pro T5 kits are the best way to go, and the UV meter will help you use them correctly.

I'm not a fan of grocery store produce. Weeds, leaves, and flowers are a much better way to go, and they are free. Grow your own, or scavenge from the "wild". Much to learn about this subject.

Outdoor housing for the warmer months should be a priority. A heated shelter, as described in the care sheet, will allow you to use the outdoor housing earlier in spring and later into fall each year.

What would you do differently?
See above. Also, be careful with the vet. Most of them know very little about correct tortoise care, and some of them will do more harm than good.

At the bottom of the linked thread is a care sheet for temperate species. I talk more about diet, and I explain a good way to house them outdoors with a heated and lit shelter, so that they can stay outdoors more of each year. There is also a heating and lighting break down at the bottom of that thread.

I'm really glad you are here, and it is very rewarding for me to know that our info has helped you take good care of your new tortoise. Please feel free to ask lots of questions, and you are welcome to join in to any conversation.

Now for MY question to YOU: What kind of cichlids? I was a fish guy long before I was a tortoise guy. I've kept most of the cichlids form around the world and I enjoy them immensely. I started with the big South American bruisers, as so many people did back in those days, but my tastes evolved. I worked for a wholesaler for a time as a younger man and had access to all sorts of different and uncommon Africans. I've had many a tank over the years, but I always go back to Tanganykans. I've bred most of the available Julidochromis, several of the Lampropeltis, and kept several of the Tropheus. I also LOVED all the different Synodontis, though I never did get them to breed. The guy I worked for specialized in catfish, so we had all sorts of unusual Synodontis.

Currently, I am down to just one 135 in my living room. It is shared by a single large Texas cichlid, a bunch of leporinus, one pleco, and one errant psudoechromis that does not belong at all, but was abandoned at our house by my BIL. I look forward to learning about yours! If you don't want to clutter your intro thread with fish talk, you can always start a fish thread in the "other pets" section and we can nerd out over there instead. :)
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
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I don’t think Russians eat Hay…
The "herbal hay" from torotisesupply.com is an assortment of dehydrated flower petals and leaves. Its almost like an edible potpourri. Tortoisesupply.com invented this concept, as far as I know, and they were copied by a big name company who released their similar product a couple of years ago. It works great as a supplemental food to sprinkle over or mix in to grocery store greens, much the same way as all the dehydrated leaf options from kapidolofarms.com. I've been using the one from tortoisesupply.com for about a decade now, and I love it. I get the 16 ounce bags and it lasts a very long time for me.

Like any new food, it takes some intro time, but after a few weeks, my Russians would eat up all their food and then lick the plate clean, not leaving even one crumb of the herbal hay behind.
 

NamedNut

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
65
Location (City and/or State)
SW Washington
I don’t think Russians eat Hay…
Ordered based on Tom's post, will report back on how "Mur-Dawg" likes it, if at all.

Link to Tom's post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

Copy and paste from Tom's post: ..."What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms."...

Link to product: https://www.tortoisesupply.com/HerbalHay

Copy and paste from product description: "A blend of 18-20 dehydrated leaves, flowers and herbs ideal for a tortoise's diet and digestive process."..."Our mix has no hay, no grass, and in our trials, has nothing in it that most tortoises won't eat. "...
 

NamedNut

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
65
Location (City and/or State)
SW Washington
I think you are going to be a fantastic tortoise keeper. The table looks great.

Your questions:
What am I doing wrong?
All looks pretty good. I see no glaring errors. Nothing that will harm your tortoise.

What could I do better?
I would ditch the MVB and use a regular incandescent flood bulb instead. Also, no need for a dual 10.0 bulb set up. The Arcadia Pro T5 kits are the best way to go, and the UV meter will help you use them correctly.

I'm not a fan of grocery store produce. Weeds, leaves, and flowers are a much better way to go, and they are free. Grow your own, or scavenge from the "wild". Much to learn about this subject.

Outdoor housing for the warmer months should be a priority. A heated shelter, as described in the care sheet, will allow you to use the outdoor housing earlier in spring and later into fall each year.

What would you do differently?
See above. Also, be careful with the vet. Most of them know very little about correct tortoise care, and some of them will do more harm than good.

At the bottom of the linked thread is a care sheet for temperate species. I talk more about diet, and I explain a good way to house them outdoors with a heated and lit shelter, so that they can stay outdoors more of each year. There is also a heating and lighting break down at the bottom of that thread.

I'm really glad you are here, and it is very rewarding for me to know that our info has helped you take good care of your new tortoise. Please feel free to ask lots of questions, and you are welcome to join in to any conversation.

Now for MY question to YOU: What kind of cichlids? I was a fish guy long before I was a tortoise guy. I've kept most of the cichlids form around the world and I enjoy them immensely. I started with the big South American bruisers, as so many people did back in those days, but my tastes evolved. I worked for a wholesaler for a time as a younger man and had access to all sorts of different and uncommon Africans. I've had many a tank over the years, but I always go back to Tanganykans. I've bred most of the available Julidochromis, several of the Lampropeltis, and kept several of the Tropheus. I also LOVED all the different Synodontis, though I never did get them to breed. The guy I worked for specialized in catfish, so we had all sorts of unusual Synodontis.

Currently, I am down to just one 135 in my living room. It is shared by a single large Texas cichlid, a bunch of leporinus, one pleco, and one errant psudoechromis that does not belong at all, but was abandoned at our house by my BIL. I look forward to learning about yours! If you don't want to clutter your intro thread with fish talk, you can always start a fish thread in the "other pets" section and we can nerd out over there instead. :)
Going to respond in order.

Thank you and I hope to be a great keeper as well. A big reason why I'm so excited about this journey is because my Wife who does not care for reptiles but is willing to learn about tortoises as they don't creep her out. So far she helps clean up after feedings and spot cleans his enclosure throughout the day, this is huge for her. Also my 8 and 5 year old are fascinated by him (closely monitored while around him). It's important to me that they learn how to care for animals properly and respect them.

I'm glad you mentioned the light and heat, after reading your care guides I was discussing with my wife that it would appear that my lighting setup is one of if not the first thing I need to change. Your recommended methods appear to be more practical for both the animal and the pocket book... win win.

Yes, much to learn regarding plants.. I suck at growing plants, but I will force my self to learn! Ordered the broadleaf seed mix and hay mix from Tortoise supply. Also ordered ZooMed calcium and vitamin per your care sheet, without D3.

I'll start planning the outdoor enclosure! We have an old cyclone dog run that is about 8' x 20'. I think this will be a good start to the enclosure. What would you recommend I top it with? How far into the ground should I go on the perimeter? I'm very nervous about leaving him outside overnight regardless of the enclosure he's in. We have a ton of racoons and opossums around us, plus a ton of cats.

Do you think I should cancel the vet appointment? I have no concerns regarding his health at this time. My thought was to get a general check up and have a place to go incase of an emergency. Not concerned about the money (I don't say that in a arrogant way), just want what's best for the Tortoise.

I read the part about your outdoor shelter and will most certainty be mimicking it.

I'm very pleased that I found this forum as well!

I'm running short on time and will start a separate post as your recommend regarding my fish keeping. You and I will be able to go on for hours. More to come on that tonight!

Thank you very much for your time and kind welcoming everyone!
 

Krista S

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Aug 4, 2019
Messages
1,364
Location (City and/or State)
Saskatchewan
Hi @NamedNut and welcome to the forum!

Congrats on Murray! He looks great and it sounds like he hit the jackpot with having you as his owner. I see you’ve already received a lot of advice from some of the best! Your new enclosure build looks awesome. I live in a part of the world where my tortoise has to live indoors for most of the year due to our crappy weather too. One recommendation I’d make for your new enclosure is to line it with something so the wood doesn’t rot so quickly from humidity, etc. You can use a variety of things for this. Some use garbage bags or shower curtain liners. I use 6mil polyethylene sheeting (amazon) and it holds up very well to an incredibly rambunctious Easter Hermanns tortoise who LOVES to dig. Some people use a variety of sealants, but I prefer to not use chemicals. Please show us pics of Murray in his new digs once he’s all settled in. 🙂
 

NamedNut

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
65
Location (City and/or State)
SW Washington
Hi @NamedNut and welcome to the forum!

Congrats on Murray! He looks great and it sounds like he hit the jackpot with having you as his owner. I see you’ve already received a lot of advice from some of the best! Your new enclosure build looks awesome. I live in a part of the world where my tortoise has to live indoors for most of the year due to our crappy weather too. One recommendation I’d make for your new enclosure is to line it with something so the wood doesn’t rot so quickly from humidity, etc. You can use a variety of things for this. Some use garbage bags or shower curtain liners. I use 6mil polyethylene sheeting (amazon) and it holds up very well to an incredibly rambunctious Easter Hermanns tortoise who LOVES to dig. Some people use a variety of sealants, but I prefer to not use chemicals. Please show us pics of Murray in his new digs once he’s all settled in. 🙂
Thank you for the kind welcome Krista!

Thank you for the reminder about the liner! I had home depot on my to do list for the day and couldn’t remember why! Do recommend the liner just on the bottom or on the side walls as-well?

I’ll be sure to send a lot of photos of him once he moves in.
 

TammyJ

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7,256
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Welcome to the forum! About the possible vet visit? I wouldn't. Some vets seem to think they have to find something to treat, then they prescribe something the animal does not need, or even harms him.
 

NamedNut

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2023
Messages
65
Location (City and/or State)
SW Washington
Welcome to the forum! About the possible vet visit? I wouldn't. Some vets seem to think they have to find something to treat, then they prescribe something the animal does not need, or even harms him.
Thank you, and you make a good point about vets.
 
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