Eyes still closed despite changes

[TuckersMum]

Hey

So thanks to everyone who helped me get Tucker's enclosure more suitable and comfortable. However his eyes remain closed.
I removed the dried grass and sandy substrate and replaced it with fine orchid bark as per suggestion. I replaced the infrared basking bulb with an arcadia spotlight basking bulb. I increased the humidity and temperatures as they were slightly low. Basking spot 30°c with a range between 24-32 in his viv. New uv bulb in. Also made him a humid hide. Been soaking him twice a day. Cleaning his eyes 3 times a day as per vet suggestion with saline, then putting Chloramphenicol drops in 3 times a day also as per vet suggestion.
It's been 2 and a half weeks now and he hasn't eaten. He did seem to inprove the day I put the new substrate in - he was exploring it all and very active but has since gone back to hardly moving.

His right eye was the worst, it improved and then his left eye was the worst, now they are both the same. Closed and puffy. We are back at the vets on Tuesday where she will probably recommend stronger antibiotics. I am at a loss - none of the changes I've made have helped him.

Any other ideas of what I could try over the weekend? Hate seeing him like this😔

Thanks in advance xx

 

[TammyJ]

Do you soak him in warm water with baby carrot food mixed in?

 

[wellington]

Spot bulb should be a flood bulb, not spot bulb. UVb should be from a tube florescent not any type that is coiled, has a bend in it.
Soak with carrot baby food and piedialyte.
When wiping it's eyes, do not use the same cloth on both eyes. One clean cloth per eye or whatever you are using, do not use it on both eyes.

 

[Len B]

Hey

So thanks to everyone who helped me get Tucker's enclosure more suitable and comfortable. However his eyes remain closed.
I removed the dried grass and sandy substrate and replaced it with fine orchid bark as per suggestion. I replaced the infrared basking bulb with an arcadia spotlight basking bulb. I increased the humidity and temperatures as they were slightly low. Basking spot 30°c with a range between 24-32 in his viv. New uv bulb in. Also made him a humid hide. Been soaking him twice a day. Cleaning his eyes 3 times a day as per vet suggestion with saline, then putting Chloramphenicol drops in 3 times a day also as per vet suggestion.
It's been 2 and a half weeks now and he hasn't eaten. He did seem to inprove the day I put the new substrate in - he was exploring it all and very active but has since gone back to hardly moving.

His right eye was the worst, it improved and then his left eye was the worst, now they are both the same. Closed and puffy. We are back at the vets on Tuesday where she will probably recommend stronger antibiotics. I am at a loss - none of the changes I've made have helped him.

Any other ideas of what I could try over the weekend? Hate seeing him like this😔

Thanks in advance xx

What I would do is turn all the lights off for a few days and see what happens. It could be one or more of the lights causing the problem. A few days without artificial light isn't going to cause any permanent harm to Tucker.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Maybe we have different reasons for puffy eyes here:
1. Irritation because of light and substrate. You have addressed this. But turning off UVB lamp at all like Len B suggested can help. While tube lamps should not be harmful for eyes, there is a neglible chance that inner tube coating is damaged. Also, check that Arcadia bulb is a floodlight and not a spotlight (they sell both).
2. Puffyness because of malnourishment - you should address this with baby carrot soaks, they give small energy boost. Also soaking helps with impactions if any.
3. Infection - this will be assessed by the vet. Just in case, refuse vitamin A injection if offered.

Also, I would raise ambient temperature in the enclosure (as suggested in your previous thread). This might help too. Also, basking zone should be around 36C.

 

[TuckersMum]

Do you soak him in warm water with baby carrot food mixed in?

No not tried that but will do.. is it the jar ls of baby food? I have been putting ReptoBoost powder in his soaks.

Spot bulb should be a flood bulb, not spot bulb. UVb should be from a tube florescent not any type that is coiled, has a bend in it.
Soak with carrot baby food and piedialyte.
When wiping it's eyes, do not use the same cloth on both eyes. One clean cloth per eye or whatever you are using, do not use it on both eyes.

Sorry, I meant flood not spot haha it's definitely flood I just checked which one I ordered. No coils or bends in uvb. Already using different cotton pads on each eye👍👍 will try carrot soak and piedialyte - thank you.

What I would do is turn all the lights off for a few days and see what happens. It could be one or more of the lights causing the problem. A few days without artificial light isn't going to cause any permanent harm to Tucker.

Will do there is plenty of natural light anyway coming into the room he is in👍 thanks😊

Maybe we have different reasons for puffy eyes here:
1. Irritation because of light and substrate. You have addressed this. But turning off UVB lamp at all like Len B suggested can help. While tube lamps should not be harmful for eyes, there is a neglible chance that inner tube coating is damaged. Also, check that Arcadia bulb is a floodlight and not a spotlight (they sell both).
2. Puffyness because of malnourishment - you should address this with baby carrot soaks, they give small energy boost. Also soaking helps with impactions if any.
3. Infection - this will be assessed by the vet. Just in case, refuse vitamin A injection if offered.

Also, I would raise ambient temperature in the enclosure (as suggested in your previous thread). This might help too. Also, basking zone should be around 36C.

Thanks will do and will increase temps. Back with vet Tues👍

Thanks for your suggestions everyone will give them a go🤞🤞 feel a bit less useless now🥰

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

When at the vet, ask if it makes sense to do an X-ray. This may be pricey, but can show the possible impaction and some other issues.

 

[TuckersMum]

When at the vet, ask if it makes sense to do an X-ray. This may be pricey, but can show the possible impaction and some other issues.

Vet gave him a small tube feed the other day and he pood that out later in the day (after a week plus of no food) so if there was imoaction he wouldn't have been able to would he? She mentioned bloods as a next potential investigation. 🤷‍♀️

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Perhaps, yes, you are right. But I feel it happened rather quick - usually food takes several days to pass through, but with soft tube fed foods it might not be the case.

Blood panel may show if something's off with internal organs. I really hope, he is fine. It could be that his sense of smell is reduced and he simply doesn't recognize the food as such. At this point, my experience is certainly not enough to justify. Your best bet is your vet and advice from knowledgeable members like Tom, Yvonne, Zovick or Wellington

 

[TuckersMum]

Perhaps, yes, you are right. But I feel it happened rather quick - usually food takes several days to pass through, but with soft tube fed foods it might not be the case.

Blood panel may show if something's off with internal organs. I really hope, he is fine. It could be that his sense of smell is reduced and he simply doesn't recognize the food as such. At this point, my experience is certainly not enough to justify. Your best bet is your vet and advice from knowledgeable members like Tom, Yvonne, Zovick or Wellington

I read somewhere they are sight feeders, so no sight means they won't eat. But when I've been reading other posts on here some people have said their torts eyes were closed but they were still eating🤷‍♀️
It's so hard I just want him to be better. I really appreciate everyones feedback though it means a lot to know others are out there who care about these amazing creatures🥰

 

[Maggie3fan]

I don't remember when you first told us about Tucker...but...it takes weeks to improve not days, he needs soaked in baby food, strained carrots, that will give the nutrition he needs...I personally would not go to the Vet as the carrot soaks weren't done...that would be like the tube feeding. Carrots have Vit A and the nutrition soaks in thru their cloaca. He desperately needs those soaks. There are part of the recovery changes you need to make...
I have had many chelonia, and the only reason I EVER took one to the Vet was for a beak trim...my sister and the experts here know vastly more than Vets do...Vets learned the old way...not todays reptiles

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I read somewhere they are sight feeders, so no sight means they won't eat. But when I've been reading other posts on here some people have said their torts eyes were closed but they were still eating🤷‍♀️
It's so hard I just want him to be better. I really appreciate everyones feedback though it means a lot to know others are out there who care about these amazing creatures🥰

While observing my torts behavior, I would say she wouldn't eat any plant without smelling it first. She clearly uses both senses to search for food and choose what does she want for dinner. Maybe your guy will take a bite of something with a strong distinct smell like a leaf of arugula (aka rocket or ruccola salad).

I understand, what you feel. Perhaps the hardest part is that tortoises don't communicate like we do - he can't tell if it hurts or he's freezing, if carrot soaks help and so.

 

[TuckersMum]

I don't remember when you first told us about Tucker...but...it takes weeks to improve not days, he needs soaked in baby food, strained carrots, that will give the nutrition he needs...I personally would not go to the Vet as the carrot soaks weren't done...that would be like the tube feeding. Carrots have Vit A and the nutrition soaks in thru their cloaca. He desperately needs those soaks. There are part of the recovery changes you need to make...
I have had many chelonia, and the only reason I EVER took one to the Vet was for a beak trim...my sister and the experts here know vastly more than Vets do...Vets learned the old way...not todays reptilesView attachment 366311

Thanks so much off to buy baby food now haha really appreciate it.

While observing my torts behavior, I would say she wouldn't eat any plant without smelling it first. She clearly uses both senses to search for food and choose what does she want for dinner. Maybe your guy will take a bite of something with a strong distinct smell like a leaf of arugula (aka rocket or ruccola salad).

I understand, what you feel. Perhaps the hardest part is that tortoises don't communicate like we do - he can't tell if it hurts or he's freezing, if carrot soaks help and so.

Yeah Tucks does the same. Will give it a go. Willing to try anything at this point🩵

 

[TuckersMum]

I don't remember when you first told us about Tucker...but...it takes weeks to improve not days, he needs soaked in baby food, strained carrots, that will give the nutrition he needs...I personally would not go to the Vet as the carrot soaks weren't done...that would be like the tube feeding. Carrots have Vit A and the nutrition soaks in thru their cloaca. He desperately needs those soaks. There are part of the recovery changes you need to make...
I have had many chelonia, and the only reason I EVER took one to the Vet was for a beak trim...my sister and the experts here know vastly more than Vets do...Vets learned the old way...not todays reptilesView attachment 366311

He is currently soaking in a baby carrot food bath and already seems more alert. I'll give his eyes a clean after this and see how he goes. What do you suggest humidity should be for an 18-24 month old? It was at 50-60 but someone said it should be higher for a baby/young so it's currently 70-78.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Thanks so much off to buy baby food now haha really appreciate it.

Yeah Tucks does the same. Will give it a go. Willing to try anything at this point🩵

Seriously, everyday, it's important that you do the same thing the same way daily to Tucker. Tortoises are animals who live a routine. So ya get him up at 8 am and into a 20 minute carrot soak...you put him in a small container he can't get out of and you put a warming light over him so the water stays warm, or just change the water, while he's soaking you fix his breakfast of Spring Mix with other leafy vegatables added...ok now you get the picture? That's what I do for a sick animal...leave his food out for a while, then pick
it up... I also instead of putting it all in one pile..put small piles around his habitat, so he might go around sorta grazing...see?
I really believe routine is very helpful in a situation like yours. All my chelonia are so used to that they are all (except Mary) at their feeding stations waiting for breakfast...keep up the good work...
This is my Redfoot, layla, giving me her opinion of her empty food dish...she likes her routine...

 

[Maggie3fan]

75-80% humidity I would say...

 

[TuckersMum]

Seriously, everyday, it's important that you do the same thing the same way daily to Tucker. Tortoises are animals who live a routine. So ya get him up at 8 am and into a 20 minute carrot soak...you put him in a small container he can't get out of and you put a warming light over him so the water stays warm, or just change the water, while he's soaking you fix his breakfast of Spring Mix with other leafy vegatables added...ok now you get the picture? That's what I do for a sick animal...leave his food out for a while, then pick
it up... I also instead of putting it all in one pile..put small piles around his habitat, so he might go around sorta grazing...see?
I really believe routine is very helpful in a situation like yours. All my chelonia are so used to that they are all (except Mary) at their feeding stations waiting for breakfast...keep up the good work...
This is my Redfoot, layla, giving me her opinion of her empty food dish...she likes her routine... View attachment 366312

Thanks. Yeah before this he would run to me every morning when he heard me. I have a few different food spots. He definitely perked up during that soak, and his left eye opened after a clean🤞🤞
It'll be 3 weeks on Tues he has been like this so hoping I see some progress soon🤞
Aww Hi Layla what a cutie🥰🥰
Will keep you posted 🤞❤️ thanks again. Xx

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thanks. Yeah before this he would run to me every morning when he heard me. I have a few different food spots. He definitely perked up during that soak, and his left eye opened after a clean🤞🤞
It'll be 3 weeks on Tues he has been like this so hoping I see some progress soon🤞
Aww Hi Layla what a cutie🥰🥰
Will keep you posted 🤞❤️ thanks again. Xx

Please, keep us updated!

You may offer him finely chopped greens (or out of a food processor) after the soak, as Maggie mentioned. "Carrot boost" doesn't last long, but gives him energy to eat.

 

[TuckersMum]

Please, keep us updated!

You may offer him finely chopped greens (or out of a food processor) after the soak, as Maggie mentioned. "Carrot boost" doesn't last long, but gives him energy to eat.

I certainly will. Fab. I don't think he is going to eat until both his eyes are open. But will still, as I have been, keep putti g fresh food down and offering it to him too❤️🩵

 

[Maggie3fan]

Also if you get freaked out cuz he's not eating, I used to take a syringe and just put some carrots in his mouth...not a lot at one time cuz you don't want to choke him, but that helps too, but don't fret if you can't do it.