Please help (closed, swollen eyes)

[DeeG]

Hi I am new to tortoise keeping! I have many reptiles and pets rats fish tanks but first time tortoise owning , I purchased a horsefield tortoise 4 weeks ago from my pet store he was fine for the first week then went off his food I done all his temps correctly and fitted a heat mat for the nights so it doesn't drop below 16. He is living in a table. He stopped eating a week ago and his eyes were puffy so I started bathing him 2ce a day which helped but then his eyes closed over and have not opened over and have not opened in 5 days and he is refusing to eat. Please help

 

[TheLastGreen]

Hi, follow this

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

www.tortoiseforum.org

Most of the advice you received from the petshop is most likely wrong.
Stop using the heatpad, some babies burrow and can burn on it.
16C seems way to low for a tort, follow the temps in the guide.
Can you send images of the tort and his enclosure?
@Tom @wellington

 

[DeeG]

Hi, follow this

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

www.tortoiseforum.org

Most of the advice you received from the petshop is most likely wrong.
Stop using the heatpad, some babies burrow and can burn on it.
16C seems way to low for a tort, follow the temps in the guide.
Can you send images of the tort and his enclosure?
@Tom @wellington

Thankyou for your quick reply, the pet shop told me to only bath him once a week to! He is around 7 months old now I will take pics later this evening. The heat map is attached to the top not the bottom of the table it's on the lid of his bed part. The picture was the first week we got him he has loads of space the bult thermostat reaches 35degrees. Should I higher his heat mat of a night as they said to put it at 16degrees.

 

[TheLastGreen]

I would remove the substrate immediately, sandy substrates can cause impaction, and those little white stones seems to be perlite? If so it can also cause impaction and death. I would change the water bowl to a terracota saucer, the type that you have can cause tipping and drowning.
It seems the bugger is way too dry. He is almost a yearling and should have adequate humidity as stated in the caresheet.
Make sure to soak him daily for about a half an hour (the tort should be able to easily support his head and neck above the water, the water should be just above the flat part of the shell, the plastron).
You should also follow this guide

Closed "Chambers"

Been meaning to do this one for a while now... Over the years I have kept a lot of reptiles in a lot of different ways. I've learned a lot of stuff about a lot of species. Since finding and joining this forum almost two years ago, I've learned a TON more. Now I'm not just stumbling around...

www.tortoiseforum.org

It seems you are feeding kale? Kale has some oxalates, so if you do feed it to him make sure he stays hydrated enough via soaking. Make sure the torts diet is diverse and follow the instructions by the caresheet. (The temps are also listed there)

 

[DeeG]

What substrate do you use please?? Yes I have changed the bowls as I was worried filling them up incase he did fall in, I don't have a recent picture at the min

 

[TheLastGreen]

I use orchid/repti bark, it keeps humidity in

 

[DeeG]

I use orchid/repti bark, it keeps humidity in

Is this OK for younger tortoise aswell??

 

[TheLastGreen]

Yes, just make sure the bark pieces are larger than the tortoise's mouth and not sharp
(My 7 month old hingeback)

 

[DeeG]

Yes, just make sure the bark pieces are larger than the tortoise's mouth and not sharpView attachment 337616View attachment 337617
(My 7 month old hingeback)

Thankyou so much, ok so I'm questioning everything the shop have told me now do you spray the substrate ??

 

[TheLastGreen]

Yes, the bottle should make a spray or mist, spray the walls and the substrate (place the terracotta bowl beneath or near the basking light to increase humidity)

 

[wellington]

The basking spot needs to be 95-100F. Over all temp can range from 75 to 80F and night temps can go into the 60's F but not below 60. The humidity should be around 50% to 80%.
If you make the enclosure a closed chamber enclosure the temps and humidity will be much easier to maintain.
Use a tube florescent for uvb and a flood or basking bulb for basking. The heat mat is fine being on the top but it's not good as basking heat.

 

[Yvonne G]

Others have already told you how to make changes to your husbandry, so I'm going to tell you how to get his eyes open (but they won't stay open unless you change the way you're caring for him):

Buy some human baby food strained carrots. Here in the States we have Gerber brand, but any brand will work.
Using a bowl with tall sides that he can't climb out of, but a small foot print mix the babyfood 50/50 with warm water. You want the depth to come up to the middle of his sides, where the top shell meets the bottom shell.
Soak the baby in this mixture for at least a half hour and longer won't hurt. If you place the bowl back inside the enclosure the water will stay warm.
If you do this daily his eyes will be open at the end of three days.

 

[Tom]

Hi I am new to tortoise keeping! I have many reptiles and pets rats fish tanks but first time tortoise owning , I purchased a horsefield tortoise 4 weeks ago from my pet store he was fine for the first week then went off his food I done all his temps correctly and fitted a heat mat for the nights so it doesn't drop below 16. He is living in a table. He stopped eating a week ago and his eyes were puffy so I started bathing him 2ce a day which helped but then his eyes closed over and have not opened over and have not opened in 5 days and he is refusing to eat. Please help

It seems like you realized now that the pet shop did not steer you in the right direction. This is how it goes for most people, so don't feel bad. Glad you are receptive to learning better ways to do it.

Read that care sheet. All of this is explained in there in detail, and questions are welcome.

That Pets at Home substrate is dangerous and should not be sold. Who in the heck thought it was a good idea to encourage a tortoise to eat sandy substrate by putting limestone bits in it??? That is crazy! I prefer damp hand packed coco coir for babies like yours, and fine grade orchid bark when they get a little bigger.

In theory 16C should be okay for a small Russian at night, but you are having an issue, so warmer would be better. This is best accomplished in a closed viv instead of an open table. Open tables are fine for adults, but babies do better in closed chambers. Keep the night temp up around 22-23C, and daytime ambient around 26-27C. The basking area directly below the basking bulb should be around 36-37C.

What lighting are you using? What type of UV bulb and at what mounting distance from the tort? Incorrect bulbs, and incorrect use of the right bulbs is a leading cause eye issues. Dry dusty substrate is another. Cold temps being a third possible cause to consider.

Hopefully we can help you solve this problem and get your tort back to good health. Questions are welcome.

 

[jsheffield]

Others have already told you how to make changes to your husbandry, so I'm going to tell you how to get his eyes open (but they won't stay open unless you change the way you're caring for him):

Buy some human baby food strained carrots. Here in the States we have Gerber brand, but any brand will work.
Using a bowl with tall sides that he can't climb out of, but a small foot print mix the babyfood 50/50 with warm water. You want the depth to come up to the middle of his sides, where the top shell meets the bottom shell.
Soak the baby in this mixture for at least a half hour and longer won't hurt. If you place the bowl back inside the enclosure the water will stay warm.
If you do this daily his eyes will be open at the end of three days.

I'll go one step further and say that you should do the daily soaks (inside the enclosure so the soak stays warm) for 3-4 hours every day for the foreseeable future... after the first week or so, you could cut the carrot to water ratio way back, but keep up the long warm soaks.

I took in a rescue in rough shape, feather-light and closed eyes and not active or eating, and I am convinced that it was the simple action of long soaks in warm water (initially cut with carrot babyfood) that saved his life and got him back to being a healthy and active tortoise.

Jamie

 

[DeeG]

The basking spot needs to be 95-100F. Over all temp can range from 75 to 80F and night temps can go into the 60's F but not below 60. The humidity should be around 50% to 80%.
If you make the enclosure a closed chamber enclosure the temps and humidity will be much easier to maintain.
Use a tube florescent for uvb and a flood or basking bulb for basking. The heat mat is fine being on the top but it's not good as basking heat.

That's his bulb and heat mat, the mat is on a thermostat and doesn't drop below 16 degrees the bulb I carnt adjust as its hooked on. I spray his enclose every morning. Just been the vets they said there's nothing they can do I need to Forse feed him!. Just bathed him again for 30mins 2nd time today and lightly cleaned his eyes with a q tip but his eyes are still closed over

 

[DeeG]

It seems like you realized now that the pet shop did not steer you in the right direction. This is how it goes for most people, so don't feel bad. Glad you are receptive to learning better ways to do it.

Read that care sheet. All of this is explained in there in detail, and questions are welcome.

That Pets at Home substrate is dangerous and should not be sold. Who in the heck thought it was a good idea to encourage a tortoise to eat sandy substrate by putting limestone bits in it??? That is crazy! I prefer damp hand packed coco coir for babies like yours, and fine grade orchid bark when they get a little bigger.

In theory 16C should be okay for a small Russian at night, but you are having an issue, so warmer would be better. This is best accomplished in a closed viv instead of an open table. Open tables are fine for adults, but babies do better in closed chambers. Keep the night temp up around 22-23C, and daytime ambient around 26-27C. The basking area directly below the basking bulb should be around 36-37C.

What lighting are you using? What type of UV bulb and at what mounting distance from the tort? Incorrect bulbs, and incorrect use of the right bulbs is a leading cause eye issues. Dry dusty substrate is another. Cold temps being a third possible cause to consider.

Hopefully we can help you solve this problem and get your tort back to good health. Questions are welcome.

Thankyou so much! I'm so upset that the shop have given me this information and it's incorrect. His bulb is a 2 in one I will attach photos and I will higher his heat mat now thankyou.

 

[DeeG]

What substrate would anyone recommend please found these two???

 

[DeeG]

Others have already told you how to make changes to your husbandry, so I'm going to tell you how to get his eyes open (but they won't stay open unless you change the way you're caring for him):

Buy some human baby food strained carrots. Here in the States we have Gerber brand, but any brand will work.
Using a bowl with tall sides that he can't climb out of, but a small foot print mix the babyfood 50/50 with warm water. You want the depth to come up to the middle of his sides, where the top shell meets the bottom shell.
Soak the baby in this mixture for at least a half hour and longer won't hurt. If you place the bowl back inside the enclosure the water will stay warm.
If you do this daily his eyes will be open at the end of three days.

Thankyou very much I have found a brand in my local store is this what you mean please?

 

[Tom]

What substrate would anyone recommend please found these two???

Both of those look good. I know the Repti-Bark brand to be safe.

MVBs are proving to be very problematic. Do you have a UV meter to measure the UV output under it? It may be too close, or it may just be a bad bulb producing anything from way too much UV, to none at all. Best to just not use those. Here is a simplified breakdown of the heating and lighting:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
3. Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

 

[Sarah2020]

What substrate would anyone recommend please found these two???

I buy from swell reptile online and they deliver. The have fine and course. You can mist it and it remains moist for humidity.