Do you let your russian roam your room?

[leigti]

When I first got my Tortoise I let her run around the house also, closely supervised, and I thought it was fine. I vacuumed constantly to make sure the floor was clean. That hasn't happened since but no matter how clean I thought the floor was I noticed that when I went to put him back in the enclosure that there were hairs on her claws. And I know that digesting Hericken be very dangerous. So I don't let her out anymore except in the outdoor pen. I have read a few times on this forum that somebody says they should only be in their enclosures otherwise they realize there's a whole big world out there and they will never be satisfied staying in that enclosure. I have noticed my Tortoise clause much less at the indoor enclosure and does not try to get out of the outdoor enclosure nearly as often now that I limit him sorry her to those two enclosures. I do soak my Tortoise every other day or so so I can handle her then and hand feed her one of her favorite types of leaves every day. I think what they say about the Tortoise looking for a hiding place is true, I noticed that Yurik would stay at the edges of the room and head for a dark place as quick as possible.

 

[G_Vincey]

I honestly didn't think it was that bad otherwise I never would have done it. I think little things like this should be included on the care-sheets. For the sake of an extra few sentences so many accidents/injuries could be prevented. I mean not every member joins a forum to further their learning.

 

[leigti]

I never really thought it was a big deal either until I started reading this forum on a regular basis and saw other people's comments about it. I'm sure some people have a proper set up in their house where this could be done relatively safely, but most people probably don't. And I definitely don't. My biggest fear is the Tortoise eating hair, between me, my dog, and my two cats, there is a bunch of hair in this house and there is just no way to get rid of it all. Sometimes this topic is almost treated like a "advanced" topic and I'm not sure why, I agree that it should be on care sheets. If it is that dangerous it should be pointed out much more clearly and from the beginning.

 

[G_Vincey]

Exactly right.. I mean I live in London and most of the time it rains for more than 3 days, so technically my little tort may not get any exercise for a few days.. So naturally I would think its okay to do so.. My tortoise is the only pet in my house, so I don't have an issue with hair from other animals but can fully understand the amount there may be from dog or cat owners.

One thing I don't understand though guys, if your letting him free roam and watching him, like observing the little fellow as if you was video recording him or something, then he won't eat anything dangerous, cause you won't let him. Your watching him so no one can step on him and your not near a door, so that can't hit him.. Then that only leaves the temperature issue, which can be resolved with a towel?

Again, if you guys suggest its no good, I won't do it anymore.. But, surely if ALL the potential problems can be eliminated, it cant be that bad?
BTW I'm talking about supervised watching, not letting him down on the floor and then doing something else and then being like "Where's (insert name here) gone..

 

[leigti]

If you can keep the area very clean and watching that closely and keep the temperatures up you can probably get away with it. I can't because I can't see well enough to tell what he's really doing. I can't see him from across a very small room so that doesn't work for me. Like I said it can be done and very specific circumstances but many people are not careful no matter what they say and that's when things can happen. I think for the most part the people on this forum have seen and heard many bad stories or learned it themselves the hard way so that's where they are against it. It all comes down to your particular situation and what you want to do. No matter what somebody will like it and somebody won't. For instance I do not have a water bowl in my tortoises enclosure well not in the indoor one anyway there is one in the outdoor one. Some people would have a total conniption fit if they heard that even though I soak my Tortoise every other day and spray down the food they would still not agree with it. But that's what I choose to do and so far I haven't been told a good enough reason to change so I'm not going to. So but I guess I'm saying is take everybody's information and decide for yourself.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

He should have a safe outdoor enclosure, too. Probably the indoor habitat could use an upgrade.

Too much floor time is bad for the claws and legs, doesn't provide humidity. It's unsafe and unprotected.

When I was new to turtles, back when there was no internet and all the care books available were useless, and no good products were available for love or money, mine lived loose in my room. I would never return to that or recommend it. I understand the thinking, but no. Upgrade the habitat & provide one outdoors.

The beauty of this forum is that we can learn from each other & don't have to make every mistake first hand to learn. The body of collective knowledge is huge. You don't have to learn the hard way.

 

[G_Vincey]

Yeah very true.. I learnt that lesson quickly after viewing a 'sand as substrate' related question..
I won't do it any longer, but I felt the negatives being stated against it were kind of easy to counter argue and easy to avoid yet no one was saying it..
Like with sand and impaction, probably the only way to avoid it, is to do without sand.. But your water situation is similar to this situation in that the problems can be resolved or substituted without issue.. That was my point really..

 

[G_Vincey]

Upgrade the habitat & provide one outdoors.QUOTE]

This is constantly on my mind, you would think I lived in the enclosure lol..

 

[Tom]

But, surely if ALL the potential problems can be eliminated, it cant be that bad?

If ALL the potential problems were eliminated you would basically have a large tortoise enclosure. And that is the point. The floor of any normal house, where people are active and going about their daily "business", cannot be made safe enough to eliminate all the potential problems. Close off a section of floor, heat and light it correctly, clean it up, add the right substrate, water bowls, "furniture", etc., and then it would be fine to let them roam on the floor because it would be in a tortoise enclosure. I did this in the living room of one house I live in. It was a pretty elaborate set up.

If your tortoise is bored in its enclosure and the enclosure is small enough for you to conclude that he needs to get "out" for exercise, then I think your enclosure needs to be greatly enlarged and possibly made more interesting from a tortoises point of view. I consider 4x8' a minimum size for one adult of even the smaller Testudo species. Tortoises are walkers. They need room to move. I understand you climate is not ideal sometimes, but a large outdoor enclosure for fair weather would be a great place for him to get out.

 

[G_Vincey]

If ALL the potential problems were eliminated you would basically have a large tortoise enclosure. And that is the point. The floor of any normal house, where people are active and going about their daily "business", cannot be made safe enough to eliminate all the potential problems. Close off a section of floor, heat and light it correctly, clean it up, add the right substrate, water bowls, "furniture", etc., and then it would be fine to let them roam on the floor because it would be in a tortoise enclosure. I did this in the living room of one house I live in. It was a pretty elaborate set up.

If your tortoise is bored in its enclosure and the enclosure is small enough for you to conclude that he needs to get "out" for exercise, then I think your enclosure needs to be greatly enlarged and possibly made more interesting from a tortoises point of view. I consider 4x8' a minimum size for one adult of even the smaller Testudo species. Tortoises are walkers. They need room to move. I understand you climate is not ideal sometimes, but a large outdoor enclosure for fair weather would be a great place for him to get out.

The misconception is "the floor".. It was a few slightly warmed towels, when he got to the edge of the towels, he would get put back in the middle and allowed to wonder again. He was never allowed to walk on laminate flooring or tiling or dusty, fibrous collecting carpet and was for 10-15 minutes at a time so never too long to get absolutely cold.. Granted there was no lights but there isn't at night either, so is 15 minutes that bad when he's been warming up all day?.. There was no substrate, that's a fair point, but its not something he will die without for 15 minutes?.. My intention was to merely offer and encourage him to do more exercise then he currently did.. Do you have photos or a link to pictures of your living room enclosure as it sounds interesting..

I just thought that in the wild he would be walking miles and of course no indoor enclosure can offer that, therefore thought this was a good alternative, as I said, I won't do it if its not recommended.. If something was to happen after purposely ignoring so many expert opinions I couldn't live with myself..

And I intend to build an outdoor enclosure but am in the process of moving so its better to wait atm.. I give him a couple hours in the sun when available..

 

[dmmj]

Sounds like you are waiting for someone to come along and say it is ok. People who have had tortoises for decades, do rescue work, who work with rescue groups and see what happens, won't ever say it is ok, you have been given advice, either take it or don't you keep saying if it is ok, well it is not, has been said many times now, by many people. Again your tortoise, your choice But stop asking for more "is it ok?", it won't come, this thread is going in circles now. Sorry if I sound harsh, but it does get a little tiresome to say the same thing over and over again.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Tortoises are essentially wild animals. We should handle them for their benefit, not ours. So, pick him up to check his health regularly- good weight, eyes & nares clear, no injuries or oddities- to carry him outdoors (I carry mine in a plastic hand basket like supermarkets use) or to place him where he needs to be. Yours should be the trusted hand of beneficence, not a random stress agent.

 

[G_Vincey]

Sounds like you are waiting for someone to come along and say it is ok. People who have had tortoises for decades, do rescue work, who work with rescue groups and see what happens, won't ever say it is ok, you have been given advice, either take it or don't you keep saying if it is ok, well it is not, has been said many times now, by many people. Again your tortoise, your choice But stop asking for more "is it ok?", it won't come, this thread is going in circles now. Sorry if I sound harsh, but it does get a little tiresome to say the same thing over and over again.

I'm not waiting for someone to say its okay, people have already said that they do it, I on the other hand have said I will stop, so I am taking the advice.

I don't know about "harsh" but rude, more likely.. Your basically saying to me, shut up, you've been told, lets move on..
I gave reasons for how and why I thought the listed 'dangers' could be avoided or better handled (no wrong doing really) and as of yet the only counter argument I have got, is basically, 'You've been told, take it or leave it'..
And how can you claim its tiresome to say the same thing over and over again, when all you have said is "people have told you its bad".. If you had argued my points and then I asked you exactly the same questions again, that would be tiresome..

 

[G_Vincey]

Tortoises are essentially wild animals. We should handle them for their benefit, not ours. So, pick him up to check his health regularly- good weight, eyes & nares clear, no injuries or oddities- to carry him outdoors (I carry mine in a plastic hand basket like supermarkets use) or to place him where he needs to be. Yours should be the trusted hand of beneficence, not a random stress agent.

These are pretty much the only times I handle him, so that's good to know thank you..

 

[Tom]

The misconception is "the floor".. It was a few slightly warmed towels, when he got to the edge of the towels, he would get put back in the middle and allowed to wonder again. He was never allowed to walk on laminate flooring or tiling or dusty, fibrous collecting carpet and was for 10-15 minutes at a time so never too long to get absolutely cold.. Granted there was no lights but there isn't at night either, so is 15 minutes that bad when he's been warming up all day?.. There was no substrate, that's a fair point, but its not something he will die without for 15 minutes?.. My intention was to merely offer and encourage him to do more exercise then he currently did.. Do you have photos or a link to pictures of your living room enclosure as it sounds interesting..

I just thought that in the wild he would be walking miles and of course no indoor enclosure can offer that, therefore thought this was a good alternative, as I said, I won't do it if its not recommended.. If something was to happen after purposely ignoring so many expert opinions I couldn't live with myself..

And I intend to build an outdoor enclosure but am in the process of moving so its better to wait atm.. I give him a couple hours in the sun when available..

G, I don't mind answering your questions. I think its helpful if you more fully understand people's point of view on this. About your point that they walk miles in the wild so you wanted to encourage some more exercise: To answer this point I would say that if your enclosure does not offer him what he needs for exercise, neither will some towels on the floor. And you have not eliminated the stressfulness of being repeatedly dropped into a strange foreign area. No these 15 minutes aren't going to kill him, but any benefit does not out weigh the risks and costs. I think you know that, but ALL of the people who have had things go wrong with their tortoises on the floor didn't think anything would go wrong either. Its all the laws of probability. A piano could fall from a passing airplane and crush you tortoise while he is "safe" in his enclosure. The probability of that is pretty small. The probability of one of the many things listed above in this thread going wrong is much greater with a tortoise on the floor. That is the over all message here for you and anyone else still reading. No. Putting a tortoise on the floor is not an instantaneously assured death sentence. It is simply taking a much great chance with your tortoises safety and well being. It is without benefit and for some (possibly most) tortoises is very stressful.

Here is a counterpoint that could be brought up: I say its stressful to put the tortoise on the floor because its an unfamiliar area and they feel exposed in strange territory. Well what happens the first time I put them in an outdoor enclosure? Aren't they stressed and in unfamiliar territory there? The answer is yes. BUT, there is cover for them, there is major benefit to be had for them, and after a time or two of spending hours a day out there, it becomes familiar territory. It is also made safe for them before they go out there with no danger of all the aforementioned things. It is a dedicated space just for them without anyone dropping errant staples, rubber bands, or buttons. No swinging doors or stepping feet. Temps are within the ideal range, and a properly maintained area is available when temps are not ideal for tortoises who live out side full time as opposed to just fair weather.

I know you are hearing us, but there is nothing wrong with pressing for more understanding. You keep pressing util you understand it as fully as you wish.

 

[G_Vincey]

@Tom thank you, and I guess the stress factor is something I didn't really consider to much but you make an excellent point..
Also, I didn't consider that it could effect him over time..

I'm not trying to get on anyone's nerves or be rude, I just want to understand fully, for my tortoises benefit as well as my own and anyone whom I try and help..

Anything on that link to your previously mentioned living room enclosure?

 

[ashleyr21]

I never let my tort out in my room, mostly because the dog hair accumulation in my room. (I never the dogs near my tort unsupervised. I supervise them together, and they all are best of friends!)

 

[Tom]

Anything on that link to your previously mentioned living room enclosure?

That was about 15 years ago. It was before digital cameras went "mainstream" and I didn't even have or want a computer. So no. I don't have any pictures. I went through a long phase in life where I didn't want to take pictures of anything. I now regret that, but its too late to do anything about it.

 

[G_Vincey]

Ok Tom, that's a shame but fair enough.. Glad you changed your mind on the whole photo thing though.. Thanks for getting back to me on that..

 

[mr. Binks]

I put mine outside for a few hours a day (until I build an outdoor enclosure than he'll be out there all day) but I wouldn't recommend letting them in your house because they might poop on your floor and that wouldn't be good and it's just not safe: