Cooper update.

Baoh

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Rjhoop said:
And why is that? Rascal was a iguana. Everything was perfect diet, lighting, heat, habitat! His body couldn't absorb the amount of calcium needed and use it properly for his quick development! I don't care how much calcium something gets, if not given the time to use it properly it's a waste. And we can't even use the argument that well his shell is perfect! Because nobody is sure how much calcium has to do with it. Again I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anything here, just something I think about and would like other peoples input! Thanks :)
If Rascal could not absorb it, that means it was simply passed in his feces by definition.
 

Rjhoop

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Baoh said:
Rjhoop said:
And why is that? Rascal was a iguana. Everything was perfect diet, lighting, heat, habitat! His body couldn't absorb the amount of calcium needed and use it properly for his quick development! I don't care how much calcium something gets, if not given the time to use it properly it's a waste. And we can't even use the argument that well his shell is perfect! Because nobody is sure how much calcium has to do with it. Again I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anything here, just something I think about and would like other peoples input! Thanks :)
If Rascal could not absorb it, that means it was simply passed in his feces by definition.
My point exactly! You can't possibly absorb all of the calcium needed for that much growth in that much time! But you basically said it's not comparable and I'm just wondering how it's not? Just for my own use I would like to know that! I'm just wondering if anyone has thought about this?
 

Baoh

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Rjhoop said:
Baoh said:
Rjhoop said:
And why is that? Rascal was a iguana. Everything was perfect diet, lighting, heat, habitat! His body couldn't absorb the amount of calcium needed and use it properly for his quick development! I don't care how much calcium something gets, if not given the time to use it properly it's a waste. And we can't even use the argument that well his shell is perfect! Because nobody is sure how much calcium has to do with it. Again I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anything here, just something I think about and would like other peoples input! Thanks :)
If Rascal could not absorb it, that means it was simply passed in his feces by definition.
My point exactly! You can't possibly absorb all of the calcium needed for that much growth in that much time! But you basically said it's not comparable and I'm just wondering how it's not? Just for my own use I would like to know that! I'm just wondering if anyone has thought about this?
I did not say he could not absorb it or that it is not possible. I said that unabsorbed material would be passed in the feces in a conditional statement. So when you say that it is your point exactly in response to what I have typed, I am curious about whether you meant to type something else or you have misread what I have typed.

It is not comparable because the examples you gave, which largely relate to a gain of fat tissue in mammals is not equivalent to the gain of lbm in a reptile (nor equivalent to the gain lbm in a mammal for that matter). Lbm and fat are not equivalents.

Growing fast, in terms of lbm, is correct at a young age. Impairing growth is preventing the realization of an organism's full potential. Adipose (white) tissue is a different matter and can be curbed with Caloric control, activity level augmentation, and nutritional input selection for any given individual to the limit that their genes allow, although one should also generally have an adequate adipose tissue quantity for multiple aspects of endocrine regulation.
 

ascott

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http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-36412.html

We need to remember that even though there are loads of sulcata torts in the world...not each one is from the same growth gene pool....I have attached this link so that you can be reminded of this...

Chris, our handsome buddy Chunk O Dunk (aka; Cooper) is likely from a more strong, big and silent type gene...grow away Coop...fulfill your genes buddy....:D

Rj, sorry to hear about your Rascal....just a side comment; I too believe that if we force our reptiles to eat WAAAYYY too much in hopes that it will grow crazy is a hazard, for many reasons....but, also remember that the tort will only get as big as it is designed to be...now, the rate at which it gets there seems to be your point??

I believe that if we look at the updates here we will see that Chunks is more on a plateau at present and the gains are slowing--which is normal...:D
[hr]
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Baoh...now now, I think you are showing off a bit :p:p:p:p:p Fun for sure-- but we all (I) are not scientists to keep up with you getting annoyed and rattling off in all that scientific hocus pocus stuff...;)
 

Rjhoop

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Yes Boah, I realize that the 200 pound fat kid isn't the same thing haha. I was just using that as a reference I guess. I was more along the lines of reptile development and not so much mammal, but those were easier examples of bigger is not always better! I'm not saying anything is wrong with the way he is growing if that's how he was meant to be! From what I can see nobody has ever seen these growth rates in a sully, so one had to sit back and wonder! And that's why I have always thought about rascal while looking at his growth rates! Like I said by no means am I trying to debate anything here! I DON'T KNOW! I'm just speaking from past experiences which is what everyone does here! Like I said,I hope he is the "FREAK" it's gonna be awesome to see how he turns out!! :)
 

Tom

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6' is not all that abnormal for a three year old male green iguana. I wouldn't consider that unusually fast, depending upon the location of origin and the genetics.

There are many reasons why your iguana might have died. What made your vet think that fast growth was the cause of death? Was he showing signs of MBD? What was your UV source?

While Coopers growth is on the fast end of the spectrum, I think Chris does a good job of keeping him healthy and hydrated.
 

Baoh

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ascott said:
Posting Freak
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Baoh...now now, I think you are showing off a bit :p:p:p:p:p Fun for sure-- but we all (I) are not scientists to keep up with you getting annoyed and rattling off in all that scientific hocus pocus stuff...;)
Not intending to show off. Exercise, diet, and performance enthusiasts, possessing a degree or not, tend to follow these types of information and topics, often looking at as much of the animal data and human data (often just cellular data) they can in order to gain an edge either competitively, therapeutically, or simply in the pursuit of a kind of ideal for personal excellence. Nothing to do with being a scientist, but being a scientist generally makes it easier to digest.
[hr]
Rjhoop said:
Yes Boah, I realize that the 200 pound fat kid isn't the same thing haha. I was just using that as a reference I guess. I was more along the lines of reptile development and not so much mammal, but those were easier examples of bigger is not always better! I'm not saying anything is wrong with the way he is growing if that's how he was meant to be! From what I can see nobody has ever seen these growth rates in a sully, so one had to sit back and wonder! And that's why I have always thought about rascal while looking at his growth rates! Like I said by no means am I trying to debate anything here! I DON'T KNOW! I'm just speaking from past experiences which is what everyone does here! Like I said,I hope he is the "FREAK" it's gonna be awesome to see how he turns out!! :)
That is why I spoke about validity in relation to context.

There have been such growth rates in other tortoises, some sulcatas included, but Cooper, like any other examples, is just at the more prodigious tail of the Gaussian distribution. The fastest-growing tortoise I had ever known about was a leopard, incidentally.

On a tangential note, I am curious to see a current photo of Cooper's plastron. The last time I saw Cooper's tail, it looked like that of a female, but that was quite some time ago.
 

Rjhoop

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Tom said:
6' is not all that abnormal for a three year old male green iguana. I wouldn't consider that unusually fast, depending upon the location of origin and the genetics.

There are many reasons why your iguana might have died. What made your vet think that fast growth was the cause of death? Was he showing signs of MBD? What was your UV source?

While Coopers growth is on the fast end of the spectrum, I think Chris does a good job of keeping him healthy and hydrated.
I can't remember what exactly the vet said Tom. But it was along the lines of lack of calcium and I believe protein he said also. It was a drawn out process over 3 months before he died.and it was well over 15 years ago so exact cause I can't remember. One thing I do remember is that no matter how sick a 6 foot iguana is, they don't like shots or being force fed and I had to do both lol!!
 

Baoh

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That was an unfortunate situation. I am sorry you lost Rascal.
 

cemmons12

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Ok, I will get some up here today somehow. I havent been out of bed except to take care of Cooper for 8 days I think. But I am going to the doctor at 4. I will find my camera when I go back to the old house. :) Plus I need to weigh him badly! He is so damn heavy when I sat him in the tub he smashed my finger. LOL!
 

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Rjhoop, your diet and lighting must not have been perfect if your iguana could not absorb the amount of calcium he needed. Its easy to say everything was perfect on your end when he passed, of course you do not want to put the blame on your self. Sorry to say.
 

cemmons12

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To all those I upset and offended on this thread earlier, this will not happen ever again. If I dont post something tortoise related, then I will not post anything at all. I am very sorry to you all.
Christian Emmons
 

cemmons12

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It been a long time since I posted Cooper's stats. But here are his latest stats as of today. He is 18 inches long, and 36 pounds. I am going to post some new pictures this weekend since my daughter has a cell that works. My cells mini sd card took a dump and I dont have the money to buy a new one right now. Thank you all for being such good friends! And I hope you all enjoy looking at his stats. Seeing as how he is now 31 months old and is still huge for his age, I love reading everyones thoughts on his huge size for his young age. Have a great day my forum friends!!!! And feel free to post your Sulcatas stas. I am always interested in finding out other members torts stats, and really interested when they are close to his age. :D
 

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I have just found this amazing thread, and what a thread! i love coopers story! of course, who couldn't? what a gorgeous sulcata! i am extremely impressed with how much personality he carries around, what a cutie! like everyone else, i can't wait til mine are that big. at his 3 month picture, cooper looked big too! what a lovely companion you have, that brings such happiness to your life. love these updates and will wait for the next one!
 

cemmons12

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Thank you all! I am glad others enjoy his story. He is such a good boy. I always hate putting him in his cage in the afternoon. He just looks so sad as if he was put up for doing something wrong. But lucky for him he only gets put up for no more then a few hours unless I have to be gone for a longer time. He never potties anywhere besides his cage or his nightly bath. It just seems like he knows this is our bed and he dont want it soiled. I love that tort more then I love my own life. Have a good weekend my forum friends!! :) :)
 

cemmons12

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Oh my god, it was so comical! Cooper started kicking his rear left leg at me which he does a lot when he is asleep, stretching or whatever. So I grabbed my light and shined it on him to see if he was awake. Well his eyes popped wide open and he starting attacking his blanket he sleeps on. I mean he was trying to bite chunks out of it. I had to tap him on the head like 4 times to get him to stop and look at me. I shined the light on my face so he could see me and he just stared at me for a minute then went right back to sleep, I was freaking cracking up! Guess it was funnier actually watching it happen though. LOL! Im easily amused at 4:30am!

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using TortForum mobile app
 

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