Chameleon question

[Moozillion]

A friend has 2 children, ages 8 and 6, who want a chameleon. My friend is a surgeon, and is well aware of the importance of UVB light, vitamin D etc. He has been doing lots of research into chameleons, enclosures etc. He is fine with the expectation that the kids will be typical kids and end up slacking on the care for the animal at some point, and he fully expects to be the animal's primary caregiver sooner or later.
He does NOT want a large chameleon, and is trying to decide which one to get.
Which chameleons would y'all recommend?
Also, what are some reputable chameleon breeders?
Thanks!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Maybe @ZEROPILOT can recommend something (he kept chameleons a while ago)?

I'll just leave here my favourite comic titled: "Chameleons favourite things to do are get sick and die"

 

[Moozillion]

Thanks, Alex and the Redfoot!

 

[COmtnLady]

A friend has 2 children, ages 8 and 6, who want a chameleon. My friend is a surgeon, and is well aware of the importance of UVB light, vitamin D etc. He has been doing lots of research into chameleons, enclosures etc. He is fine with the expectation that the kids will be typical kids and end up slacking on the care for the animal at some point, and he fully expects to be the animal's primary caregiver sooner or later.
He does NOT want a large chameleon, and is trying to decide which one to get.
Which chameleons would y'all recommend?
Also, what are some reputable chameleon breeders?
Thanks!

Maybe first he should ask them why they want a chameleon. Sometimes kids have an idea of something that doesn't have a lot to do with reality. (Like maybe they saw a cartoon with a chameleon that flashed bright colors every two seconds, or something that could talk and was "cute"...) And perhaps he could divert them, in a positive way, to something that they would do better with. Most 6 and 8 year olds are not known for actually wanting what they say they want. (Look at the tons of had-to-have-Christmas-toys that don't get played with after Groundhog's Day...)

Another idea would be to find a reptile store, or zoo, or someone who owns one, where they could hold one, try one on. That can change a lot of kid's/people's ideas about having a particular pet.

Its also possible that some other kid's older sibling has one and that is the only reason they're interested.

If the kiddos were a few years older, it would be a better idea - but this sounds like a recipe for a neglected/unwanted pet trapped in cage until it dies from a draft blowing on it or someone forgets to feed it.



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[wellington]

Maybe first he should ask them why they want a chameleon. Sometimes kids have an idea of something that doesn't have a lot to do with reality. (Like maybe they saw a cartoon with a chameleon that flashed bright colors every two seconds, or something that could talk and was "cute"...) And perhaps he could divert them, in a positive way, to something that they would do better with. Most 6 and 8 year olds are not known for actually wanting what they say they want. (Look at the tons of had-to-have-Christmas-toys that don't get played with after Groundhog's Day...)

Another idea would be to find a reptile store, or zoo, or someone who owns one, where they could hold one, try one on. That can change a lot of kid's/people's ideas about having a particular pet.

Its also possible that some other kid's older sibling has one and that is the only reason they're interested.

If the kiddos were a few years older, it would be a better idea - but this sounds like a recipe for a neglected/unwanted pet trapped in cage until it dies from a draft blowing on it or someone forgets to feed it.



.

Totally agree!

 

[Moozillion]

Neglect by the kids won’t be an issue here- my friend is looking forward to building an enclosure and setting it up right. He’s been researching a lot and is asking good questions. Also, he is a doctor (a dental surgeon) so he’s bright, responsible and actually EXPECTS to take care of the animal himself.
I kinda think the kids’ request is a convenient excuse for him to get a pet that he’s interested in!
They have friends who have lizards- I mentioned a bearded dragon but that got an immediate NO! because he’s seen and heard of too many misadventures with that beardie!

 

[zovick]

Neglect by the kids won’t be an issue here- my friend is looking forward to building an enclosure and setting it up right. He’s been researching a lot and is asking good questions. Also, he is a doctor (a dental surgeon) so he’s bright, responsible and actually EXPECTS to take care of the animal himself.
I kinda think the kids’ request is a convenient excuse for him to get a pet that he’s interested in!
They have friends who have lizards- I mentioned a bearded dragon but that got an immediate NO! because he’s seen and heard of too many misadventures with that beardie!

I have experience with Panther Chameleons and Veiled Chameleons. I kept both species when living in CT and kept Veiled Chameleons after I moved to GA. Panther Chameleons are more affected by cold weather and seem to need a higher level of care than the Veileds, which are able to withstand occasional cold spells and seem less needy of water. After a 3 day power outage when the temp in my animal room in CT dropped to about 45 degrees (no generator), all of my Panthers died. The Veiled Chameleons survived. I even left the Veiled outside in CT at temps which sometimes dropped below 50 at night with no problems.

Tell your friend that I am also a DDS (Baltimore College of Dental Surgery, 1971) and am still working in the CT practice which I started from scratch in 1973 after serving two years in the US Army. I am seeing the 4th generation of some of the families that started coming to me in the1970's and 1980's.

 

[Tom]

A friend has 2 children, ages 8 and 6, who want a chameleon. My friend is a surgeon, and is well aware of the importance of UVB light, vitamin D etc. He has been doing lots of research into chameleons, enclosures etc. He is fine with the expectation that the kids will be typical kids and end up slacking on the care for the animal at some point, and he fully expects to be the animal's primary caregiver sooner or later.
He does NOT want a large chameleon, and is trying to decide which one to get.
Which chameleons would y'all recommend?
Also, what are some reputable chameleon breeders?
Thanks!

The two primary tried and true species that are hardy and also beautiful are the panthers and veileds. Furcifer pardalis and Chameleo calyptratus. Both would be considered large chameleons, but they aren't all that large in comparison to some other lizards. The reason to choose one of these is because they are the hardiest and easiest to keep alive of all the chameleons and they are forgiving of beginner mistakes. There are other species available, and if set up correctly from the start, and no mistakes are made, they can thrive too.

Avoid the Jacksons in your climate. They are a montane species and they need cooler temperatures all around and cold nights year round. They are common and frequently sold, but they are more difficult to house correctly due to their temperature requirements.

If he is just dead set against these two species, and wants something small, then check out this guy. I have no first hand experience with him, but I'd buy from him:

Carpet Chameleons (Furcifer lateralis) | livingart

I am raising three clutches of babies now that should be available in late June. A detailed article on their care and breeding written by myself is available to all that are interested. You can also pick up a copy of the January/February 2018 issue of Reptiles magazine to read another version of...

www.livingartbyfrankpayne.com

He has great info on his site, and great YouTube videos to watch too.

 

[Tom]

I have experience with Panther Chameleons and Veiled Chameleons. I kept both species when living in CT and kept Veiled Chameleons after I moved to GA. Panther Chameleons are more affected by cold weather and seem to need a higher level of care than the Veileds, which are able to withstand occasional cold spells and seem less needy of water. After a 3 day power outage when the temp in my animal room in CT dropped to about 45 degrees (no generator), all of my Panthers died. The Veiled Chameleons survived. I even left the Veiled outside in CT at temps which sometimes dropped below 50 at night with no problems.

Tell your friend that I am also a DDS (Baltimore College of Dental Surgery, 1971) and am still working in the CT practice which I started from scratch in 1973 after serving two years in the US Army. I am seeing the 4th generation of some of the families that started coming to me in the1970's and 1980's.

If I lived even remotely near you, I would soooooo have you as my dentist! That would be so fantastic.

 

[Moozillion]

The two primary tried and true species that are hardy and also beautiful are the panthers and veileds. Furcifer pardalis and Chameleo calyptratus. Both would be considered large chameleons, but they aren't all that large in comparison to some other lizards. The reason to choose one of these is because they are the hardiest and easiest to keep alive of all the chameleons and they are forgiving of beginner mistakes. There are other species available, and if set up correctly from the start, and no mistakes are made, they can thrive too.

Avoid the Jacksons in your climate. They are a montane species and they need cooler temperatures all around and cold nights year round. They are common and frequently sold, but they are more difficult to house correctly due to their temperature requirements.

If he is just dead set against these two species, and wants something small, then check out this guy. I have no first hand experience with him, but I'd buy from him:

Carpet Chameleons (Furcifer lateralis) | livingart

I am raising three clutches of babies now that should be available in late June. A detailed article on their care and breeding written by myself is available to all that are interested. You can also pick up a copy of the January/February 2018 issue of Reptiles magazine to read another version of...

www.livingartbyfrankpayne.com

He has great info on his site, and great YouTube videos to watch too.

Thanks, Tom!

 

[zovick]

Neglect by the kids won’t be an issue here- my friend is looking forward to building an enclosure and setting it up right. He’s been researching a lot and is asking good questions. Also, he is a doctor (a dental surgeon) so he’s bright, responsible and actually EXPECTS to take care of the animal himself.
I kinda think the kids’ request is a convenient excuse for him to get a pet that he’s interested in!
They have friends who have lizards- I mentioned a bearded dragon but that got an immediate NO! because he’s seen and heard of too many misadventures with that beardie!

Another point: the Panthers have become a "designer" chameleon and as a result their prices can be quite hefty. Veiled Chameleons are often available for under $50.

Starting out with the Veileds could be a good way to avoid losing a fairly good amount of $$ in case of any misfortunes.

 

[RandyTortoise]

A friend has 2 children, ages 8 and 6, who want a chameleon. My friend is a surgeon, and is well aware of the importance of UVB light, vitamin D etc. He has been doing lots of research into chameleons, enclosures etc. He is fine with the expectation that the kids will be typical kids and end up slacking on the care for the animal at some point, and he fully expects to be the animal's primary caregiver sooner or later.
He does NOT want a large chameleon, and is trying to decide which one to get.
Which chameleons would y'all recommend?
Also, what are some reputable chameleon breeders?
Thanks!

Personally, I would get a Jackson’s chameleon. They are cool looking, don’t get too large, and are pretty friendly.
If you want something super friendly, but gets larger and really easy to take care of, you can’t go wrong with a green chameleon

 

[Tom]

Personally, I would get a Jackson’s chameleon. They are cool looking, don’t get too large, and are pretty friendly.
If you want something super friendly, but gets larger and really easy to take care of, you can’t go wrong with a green chameleon

Did you read what I wrote about the Jackson's? Are you aware that the OP is in one of the hottest parts of the country?

 

[RandyTortoise]

Did you read what I wrote about the Jackson's? Are you aware that the OP is in one of the hottest parts of the country?

I saw your advice on the Jacksons just now. I don’t see that before I posted. I didn’t know that actually!

 

[Tom]

I saw your advice on the Jacksons just now. I don’t see that before I posted. I didn’t know that actually!

I had a buddy that lived here on the coast. Constant cool weather. Summer highs around 80, but with constant cool ocean breezes. Cool nights every night. He was able to keep Jacksons living outside in the back yard. No heating or lighting. They bred for him and produced babies. He could not keep them alive just 30 miles inland at his Dad's house in Whittier, but the panthers and veiled chameleons did fine in Whittier with some supplemental heat in the colder months and attention to misting in the summer months.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

As per our telephone conversation, some Chameleons are much easier to have success with than others.
The most common type you'll see that is the most specialized is the JACKSONS.
DO NOT make that your first Chameleon.
Just the 20+ degree drop in night temperature that they need will have you throwing in the towel.

I reccomend a male Veiled or a MALE Panther.
Although neither should be handled much in my opinion. So they aren't great children's pets.

Proper, very large open air mesh cage, heavily planted. Plants and vines. Make sure they're edible plants, because Veiled will nibble on them. I like Pathos. A MIST KING on a timer is money well spent, a T5 5.0 strip florescent and a low wattage incandescent bulb near the favorite hang out spot. Avoid high traffic areas and drafts.
Do not just feed crickets.
I no longer keep Chameleons because of the insect zoo I ended up with. Including two types of cockroaches. It became more time consuming than the Chameleons, and my wife became irritated after this went on for several years. (Because I'd figured out how to keep my Chameleons alive)
4 to 7 years seems about right. But my 7 year old Veiled had seen the doctor more than I had.
Expect illness and have a vet ready.
Like tortoises, you'll need a keen eye to spot issues before they become too serious

 

[Moozillion]

My friend is going with a Panther chameleon!
He’s got the enclosure, and really enjoyed setting up the whole mini-environment. He’s letting the plants settle in for a few weeks before he orders the Panther!

 

[Moozillion]

Here’s some follow up on the chameleon!

Our friend, Zack, got a male panther chameleon, and his kids named it Cami.
The kids are absolutely NOT allowed to hold Cami, only to look at him. They are more interested in their guinea pigs currently.
But Zack is FASCINATED with Cami (it really is HIS pet, the kids being interested was a convenient incentive/excuse to get one! )!
Cami rapidly doubled in size and appears to be doing great. Zack’s phone is full of photos. I suggested he could mount a camera inside the enclosure, but he laughed and said that would not be a good idea because he’d be up all night scrolling through the camera feed from the day!
He really is like a big kid himself when it comes to Cami the chameleon!

Another convert to the special joy of reptiles!

 

[TammyJ]

That's great! Cami is adorable .

 

[zovick]

Here’s some follow up on the chameleon!

Our friend, Zack, got a male panther chameleon, and his kids named it Cami.
The kids are absolutely NOT allowed to hold Cami, only to look at him. They are more interested in their guinea pigs currently.
But Zack is FASCINATED with Cami (it really is HIS pet, the kids being interested was a convenient incentive/excuse to get one! )!
Cami rapidly doubled in size and appears to be doing great. Zack’s phone is full of photos. I suggested he could mount a camera inside the enclosure, but he laughed and said that would not be a good idea because he’d be up all night scrolling through the camera feed from the day!
He really is like a big kid himself when it comes to Cami the chameleon!

Another convert to the special joy of reptiles!
View attachment 396015View attachment 396016

Chameleons are very interesting pets. I used to keep a number of them myself. Feeding them was the thing that finally made me decide to let them go. I lived up north at the time, so the chameleons were inside most of the time, and I always had feed crickets escaping into my house and chirping at all hours. Hopefully, this will not be an issue where your friend lives.