Yellows,reds and cherries

[Turtlepete]

For ex situ to in situ reintroduction however, this is a crucial barrier to uphold. But very few and far between for that.

Why do you feel it's so important for in-situ reintroduction? I get the idea of maintaining purity on a species level, but to me , a lot of the reason for reintroduction and species conservation to begin with is not just for the benefit of that single species itself, but the effect their absence can have on the ecosystem they once inhabited. Take the effects of the absence of giant tortoises on Madagascar. Or the effects that the absence of Gopher tortoises would have, since they are effectively a "keystone species" and have a big contribution to the ecosystem they inhabit. I get maintaining genetic purity, to an extent, but I feel as long as whatever tortoise is reintroduced can still fill that ecological niche then to me it seems a success. I don't know all about this topic, just a curious thought…

I do really like the idea of locale-specific animals in captivity. I'd love to have some pure-blood of those giant Bolivian locales of both red foots and yellow's.

 

[Anyfoot]

In my occupation I aim for perfection. Not 99% but 100% perfection. If you you had an opportunity to revive a species back to its natural habitat a mixed locality breed would make do but a pure breed locality is 100% perfection. I get it when someone wants to perfect something. Well that's my thought anyway. I to know little on this subject but fast becoming addicted.

 

[tortadise]

Wow. So people smuggle them across boarders to countries that its legal to ship out to wherever. So why isn't it policed by experts who know the differences in locality to stop the smuggling.
How many different dendiculata and carbonara localities are there. Is this known?

Well if you ever get the chance to visit South America especially northern nations. You will see how easy it is. Most the nations down there are very low income economic areas. Border agents are easily paid off. In fact a very large group of Brazilian Yellowfoots I had about 14 years ago were smuggled into Guyana and shipped from there. I course this was found out after the fact. Unfortunately they all perished too. They were quite different than Suriname/Guyana dendiculata as well. Had a completely different shape, color and sizes were quite large. They each had ticks that were bigger than quarters and leaches 6" in length. We're quite the specimens. Happens all the time. Same with chacos. Argentina rarely allows chilensis out of the country because they're listed critically endangered through the ministry of agriculture. But they will get smuggled out into Paraguay and shipped out. This got shut down in 2004 though. Hence the a very reason why they're incredibly rare to find in the US and Europe. Only specimens legally allowed out are from captive breeding colonies. Even them CITEs quotas are very limited.

 

[tortadise]

Why do you feel it's so important for in-situ reintroduction? I get the idea of maintaining purity on a species level, but to me , a lot of the reason for reintroduction and species conservation to begin with is not just for the benefit of that single species itself, but the effect their absence can have on the ecosystem they once inhabited. Take the effects of the absence of giant tortoises on Madagascar. Or the effects that the absence of Gopher tortoises would have, since they are effectively a "keystone species" and have a big contribution to the ecosystem they inhabit. I get maintaining genetic purity, to an extent, but I feel as long as whatever tortoise is reintroduced can still fill that ecological niche then to me it seems a success. I don't know all about this topic, just a curious thought…

I do really like the idea of locale-specific animals in captivity. I'd love to have some pure-blood of those giant Bolivian locales of both red foots and yellow's.

I used that reference merely to define the differences of the importance in captie breeding to supply/demand efforts. I refer to that as captive conservation. When you stop the import of a species because captive bred animals are in surplus it lowers the demand of wild collected specimens. But when your either reinforcing, reintroducing, or maintaining a species. The standards trough world wildlife, IUCN, and international authorities require phylogenetic similarities of exact or regionally similar localities. Especially reptiles. I'm currently goin through this process with west African homeana and Manouria emys phyrei in Bangladesh.

In captivity there a species of tortoise. But in the wild they're a tortoise with a genetic coding which regionally is unique to certain areas. Wouldn't want to introduce a Vietnamese black into western Myanmar. It could alter the microevolution of a population. Per introduction standards of authorities. Which makes sense in some ways to me.

 

[tortadise]

Monty Python moment. "How does a 1 pound sparrow carry a 2 pound coconut?" Well that depends. An English sparrow or a French? Lol

 

[Anyfoot]

Well if you ever get the chance to visit South America especially northern nations. You will see how easy it is. Most the nations down there are very low income economic areas. Border agents are easily paid off. In fact a very large group of Brazilian Yellowfoots I had about 14 years ago were smuggled into Guyana and shipped from there. I course this was found out after the fact. Unfortunately they all perished too. They were quite different than Suriname/Guyana dendiculata as well. Had a completely different shape, color and sizes were quite large. They each had ticks that were bigger than quarters and leaches 6" in length. We're quite the specimens. Happens all the time. Same with chacos. Argentina rarely allows chilensis out of the country because they're listed critically endangered through the ministry of agriculture. But they will get smuggled out into Paraguay and shipped out. This got shut down in 2004 though. Hence the a very reason why they're incredibly rare to find in the US and Europe. Only specimens legally allowed out are from captive breeding colonies. Even them CITEs quotas are very limited.

Have you managed to breed any of you 6 separate true locality bloodline yet.

 

[tortadise]

I'm going to start a thread on both those projects were working on and explain it more.

 

[tortadise]

Have you managed to breed any of you 6 separate true locality bloodline yet.

Yes except Bolivian. The male hasn't successfully fertilized the female the past 3 years. Have Guyana and Venezuelan hatching now actually for the. 6th year F2/F3.