Sulcata temperatures; what can they tolerate?

[Smile]

You are starting to get the idea, but you are much too inflexible in your plans. You need to change the environment to give the tortoise what it needs, not decide what is convenient for you and then decide the tortoise will adapt to it. I want to offer some tips based on what I have read in this thread. I hope this will help you and the tortoise you are considering.

1. You are making a mistake in not buying from Lance. I've never met him and unfortunately I don't even know him well enough to call him "friend". But I do know that very few people on this earth start their sulcata babies as correctly or as thoroughly as he does. I have talked to him on the phone about his practices, and I've seen countless babies of his on this forum thrive and do well. A sulcata hatchlings first few days and weeks are critical and set the tone for the rest of that babies life. I love LLL. The owner of LLL is a friend of mine. They sell a lot of babies and so they buy babies from a lot of sources. These sources, to the best of my knowledge, do not start their babies as well as Lance. Just send Lance a cashiers check. You can trust him. He's been on this forum for years without a single complaint. If he rips you off, I will personally repay you.
2. 30 gallons is too small. I say minimum 40, but that will only last 2 or 3 months. Just do it right and build a big one from the start.
3. If his bulb is going to overheat and dehydrate him, it is the wrong bulb or the wrong enclosure. This is the inflexibility I'm talking about. Why must it be a 125 if that is not the right bulb to maintain your temps in your enclosure?
4. Instead of asking what they can tolerate, ask what is optimal and figure out how to offer it.
5. You don't need night heat if your room temp is warm enough. I don't use night heat in my reptile room because I keep the ambient temp at 80. Does your living rom stay 80 all year? Even in winter?
6. If your deep dome doesn't accommodate the heating and lighting equipment your baby needs, get the right fixture. THey are only $12 at Home Depot.
7. They can see colored light bulbs at night and sometimes it messes with their head. I'm glad to see you are switching to a CHE.
8. There is no way to find out what every person is or isn't putting on that grass. Even if the manager of the park says its "clean", he might be lying and telling you what he thinks you want to hear, or he might not know what one of his guys is doing. Don't risk it. Besides that you shouldn't be letting him run loose anyway. Make him a large outdoor pen and let him run around in there. Don't let him run outside of a proper enclosure, and don't run him in an area that you don't have control over.
9. People with open tortoise tables in normal houses CAN'T maintain proper conditions. That's why their tortoises pyramid. Make a closed chamber. Like this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

Please read these threads. They will help you:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

Hello Tom, thank you for your reply. I really do want to buy from Lance, but there is no way we can make the transaction work... the only thing that would work is providing my credit card information to him over the phone, something I'm not fine with. I'm not even sure if the bulb will overheat or dehydrate him, I just assumed so because I've never used such a high watt bulb and MVBs get very warm apparently. Now that I think about it, I've used two 75-Watt bulbs in the same enclosure before and the temperature was OK, so I'm not concerned about that issue anymore. No my living room doesn't stay at comfortable temperatures year-round, but it doesn't start getting cold here until mid-October. Do you think I can do without a CHE until then? I don't know if you missed it, but I stated that wild turtles and ducks reside in the pond where the park is and most likely eat the grass... wouldn't it affect them negatively if it was contaminated with something? If letting him munch on the grass at the park turns out to be safe, then I can take some of those rabbit PVC cage builders with me and build him a little play pen while I'm there.

 

[Smile]

I would assume that any of the plants in a park area have been sprayed. If there are no weeds and the grass looks perfect, then it probably has been treated with things you don't want your tortoise to eat.

I don't know how the majority of people house their tortoises inside. Those that use a closed chamber rather than an open top table easily maintain the 75-85% relative humidity. I suggest you search the forum for "closed chambers".

Thought you'd be able to tell at a glance because of what you said here, sorry. Am I able to plant grass in Eco-Earth? If so, where do I get seeds? Sorry for all of these simple questions... complete noob at gardening here, haha.

What if I take him to the park just so he can get natural sun, what kind of container can I use if I don't want him eating grass or flowers? I've heard that some glass/plastic doesn't allow UVB to get through them.

 

[Tom]

Hello Tom, thank you for your reply. I really do want to buy from Lance, but there is no way we can make the transaction work... the only thing that would work is providing my credit card information to him over the phone, something I'm not fine with. I'm not even sure if the bulb will overheat or dehydrate him, I just assumed so because I've never used such a high watt bulb and MVBs get very warm apparently. Now that I think about it, I've used two 75-Watt bulbs in the same enclosure before and the temperature was OK, so I'm not concerned about that issue anymore. No my living room doesn't stay at comfortable temperatures year-round, but it doesn't start getting cold here until mid-October. Do you think I can do without a CHE until then? I don't know if you missed it, but I stated that wild turtles and ducks reside in the pond where the park is and most likely eat the grass... wouldn't it affect them negatively if it was contaminated with something? If letting him munch on the grass at the park turns out to be safe, then I can take some of those rabbit PVC cage builders with me and build him a little play pen while I'm there.

Lance won't take a cashier's check? Money order? Work it out man. Beginning with a healthy, properly started baby should be priority number 1.

Only your thermometer can answer your temperature and bulb questions. Number 6 on the Beginner Mistakes thread.

I saw the part about turtles and ducks. Those things are found dead all the time. They can all survive for a limited amount of time with toxins. NOT worth the risk to your tortoise that could very well live more than 100 years. There is NO way to be sure that that area is safe and pesticide free. There is also no benefit that your tortoise won't get in your own yard. Leave your tortoise at home in his large outdoor enclosure for exercise, sunshine and grazing.

 

[Tom]

Thought you'd be able to tell at a glance because of what you said here, sorry. Am I able to plant grass in Eco-Earth? If so, where do I get seeds? Sorry for all of these simple questions... complete noob at gardening here, haha.

What if I take him to the park just so he can get natural sun, what kind of container can I use if I don't want him eating grass or flowers? I've heard that some glass/plastic doesn't allow UVB to get through them.

Don't take him to the park. Its the same sun as at your house where you know it is safe and chemical free.


I buy seeds here:
http://www.groworganic.com/premium-horse-pasture-mix-irrigation.html

And here:
http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes

 

[Smile]

@Tom I've never bought anything online without a credit card and I've never written a check or anything, so I don't know how to go on about that. As much as I want to buy my baby from Lance, it's going to have to be LLLReptile unfortunately since I'm buying supplies from there anyways, so might as well get it from there. It would cost the same to get it from him too which sucks and it'd work if he had a website, but there's nothing we can do.

I missed this from your OP.

1. You are making a mistake in not buying from Lance. I've never met him and unfortunately I don't even know him well enough to call him "friend". But I do know that very few people on this earth start their sulcata babies as correctly or as thoroughly as he does. I have talked to him on the phone about his practices, and I've seen countless babies of his on this forum thrive and do well. A sulcata hatchlings first few days and weeks are critical and set the tone for the rest of that babies life. I love LLL. The owner of LLL is a friend of mine. They sell a lot of babies and so they buy babies from a lot of sources. These sources, to the best of my knowledge, do not start their babies as well as Lance. Just send Lance a cashiers check. You can trust him. He's been on this forum for years without a single complaint. If he rips you off, I will personally repay you.

LLLReptiles claims that their sulcata tortoises are CB... are some of their stock imports as well? That's what I got from your post.

 

[Yvonne G]

I felt I had to commend you on your willingness to listen to the different opinions our members are giving you. Thank you for maintaining your cool and taking the info given in the spirit it is given. We just had another new member who joined today and took offense at everything they were advised. It is so refreshing to have a new member be willing to accept what we're saying and either go with it or explain why you can't go with it. I have a feeling we're going to get along just great, and you are a welcome new member to join our family here.

 

[AmRoKo]

If Lance uses paypal you can pay with a credit card though I have never got a tortoise from him so I don't know what his paying methods are. I too have read wonderful things about the sulcata's others have gotten from Lance. I have never gotten any torts from LLLreptile, but I did order some supplies from them once and that went really well.

 

[Tom]

All sulcatas in the US are captive bred. Importation was banned in 1998. You are not understanding what I am telling you. Did you read this thread?
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

Read it and then we can talk about why it matters where you buy your baby. Different people start tortoises in different ways right after hatching. There are a million variables. Most breeders do it the old dry way. This damages their kidneys and other internal organs, but they live and behave normally for weeks or months after the damage is done before they finally die. Starting them the way Lance starts them prevents this. Buying one from a seller who buys all sorts of them from a wide variety of sources who start them in ways that are not as good as the way Lance, or some of our other breeders here on the forum do it, is taking a gamble. I'm only harping on Lance and LLL because you mentioned them.

Dude. Its not that hard to go to the bank and get a cashiers check or money order. At some point in life you might need to know how to do this, so what better way to learn? I'm from and older generation and have some old fashioned views. There were no computers or cell phones when I learned to do business. How old are you? Why are you okay with typing your digits into a computer and sending them off to a company in cyberspace, but you aren't comfortable telling your digits to a small-time well-known and trusted person on the phone? I ask because I am the complete opposite. I HATE entering my numbers in to a computer. I won't do business with a company that won't talk to me on the phone and take my order and credit card info that way. I won't order anything online in those automatic computer programs.

 

[Smile]

All sulcatas in the US are captive bred. Importation was banned in 1998. You are not understanding what I am telling you. Did you read this thread?
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

Read it and then we can talk about why it matters where you buy your baby. Different people start tortoises in different ways right after hatching. There are a million variables. Most breeders do it the old dry way. This damages their kidneys and other internal organs, but they live and behave normally for weeks or months after the damage is done before they finally die. Starting them the way Lance starts them prevents this. Buying one from a seller who buys all sorts of them from a wide variety of sources who start them in ways that are not as good as the way Lance, or some of our other breeders here on the forum do it, is taking a gamble. I'm only harping on Lance and LLL because you mentioned them.

Dude. Its not that hard to go to the bank and get a cashiers check or money order. At some point in life you might need to know how to do this, so what better way to learn? I'm from and older generation and have some old fashioned views. There were no computers or cell phones when I learned to do business. How old are you? Why are you okay with typing your digits into a computer and sending them off to a company in cyberspace, but you aren't comfortable telling your digits to a small-time well-known and trusted person on the phone? I ask because I am the complete opposite. I HATE entering my numbers in to a computer. I won't do business with a company that won't talk to me on the phone and take my order and credit card info that way. I won't order anything online in those automatic computer programs.

I read that entire thing last night. I watched a video on LLL's tortoises and saw that they had reptibark as bedding, which probably means they aren't kept too dry. If I were to get a baby that isn't kept too dry, would I be able to transition it slowly to the way you keep your babies? If so, how? So far I plan on misting the cage twice a day and keeping a water dish where it can soak and drink out off at all times.

Are sulcatas able to eat Timothy hay safely? I took care of my neighbor's guinea pig for a few weeks over the summer and it ate this grass and timothy hay mixture. I don't know what it's called since the bag she left at my place that I have of it is in a clear bag, but it sort of looks like this so I'm assuming it's safe since it's for other small animals as well. I'll probably ask for the brand and buy some tomorrow if it's OK for them.

 

[Abdulla6169]

I read that entire thing last night. I watched a video on LLL's tortoises and saw that they had reptibark as bedding, which probably means they aren't kept too dry. If I were to get a baby that isn't kept too dry, would I be able to transition it slowly to the way you keep your babies? If so, how? So far I plan on misting the cage twice a day and keeping a water dish where it can soak and drink out off at all times.

Are sulcatas able to eat Timothy hay safely? I took care of my neighbor's guinea pig for a few weeks over the summer and it ate this grass and timothy hay mixture. I don't know what it's called since the bag she left at my place that I have of it is in a clear bag, but it sort of looks like this so I'm assuming it's safe since it's for other small animals as well. I'll probably ask for the brand and buy some tomorrow if it's OK for them.

LLL's tortoises are taken from breeders, these breeders may house the tortoise in a humid or dry environment. The first days of a tortoise's life are the most important, so if they were started dry they might die in sometime. Dehydration is the worst factor for a hatchling, because once the internal organs are damaged a tortoise may live for a very short time ( about a few weeks or a few months). Since you have a credit card, you can take cash from the bank. Send it it Lance by mail Good luck!
Hatchlings may eat Timothy hay, it's a maybe. I suggest growing it

 

[Dizisdalife]

Thought you'd be able to tell at a glance because of what you said here, sorry. Am I able to plant grass in Eco-Earth? If so, where do I get seeds? Sorry for all of these simple questions... complete noob at gardening here, haha.

Some keepers are able to grow plants in their indoor enclosure in Eco-Earth. I was never able to do that. My hatchling would eat some and trample the rest. What worked for me was to start some seeds in small patches in my yard, and some in planters or pots. Hatchlings don't eat that much, so this was enough to start out with. The seed mixes that have worked for me are the same as the ones Tom mention. This one has orchard grass and clovers. It produces lots of grass. I have several plots of this planted in the tortoise pen and my 4 year old loves it. In the winter months (the grasses are cool weather types) I get more than enough so I make hay and store it for drier times.
http://www.groworganic.com/premium-horse-pasture-mix-irrigation.html
Over the past few years I have added more seeds to these same plots. I over-seeded the area with orchard grass, also from grow organic, because it survives our summer better than the rye grasses. Also added some plantain, white clover, turnip, and dandelion, and chicory. I continue to add plants to the pen. Always looking for new plants that are edible and to increase the variety for my sulcata. A 50 pound sulcata will eat more than a 150 pound human (or so it seems to me). Maybe they eat less when their growth rate slows as they get older. A few plants that I have added that really help satisfy his need for volume are grape (leaves), hibiscus (leaves and flowers), opuntia, and mulberry (leaves).

Another seed mix that was succesful for me, and continues to produce, is: http://www.tortoisesupply.com/TestudoMix

I started some seeds in a planter at first and later began added it to the yard (in the tortoise pen). This added a lot of variety to my tortoise's diet. Three years later, this stuff is still producing.

Both of these places take credit cards and I have no complaint about either of them.

My hatchling never would eat hay. I couldn't leave it in his closed chamber because it was just too moist, the hay would get wet and mold. I think that Timothy hay is a bit tough for hatchling sulcata. Bermuda grass hay, or orchard grass hay are more palatable. Since timothy grass doesn't do well in my climate I don't grow it. Today, my sulcata (4 1/2 years old) does eat hay when he has too, but that is seldom because there is enough green grass here for him. That could change if Southern California doesn't get plenty of rain real soon.

When I first joined the forum I was told that to raise a sulcata I would need to become a gardener. I am glad I took that advice seriously. I have also had to develop some carpentry skills as well.

 

[Tom]

I read that entire thing last night. I watched a video on LLL's tortoises and saw that they had reptibark as bedding, which probably means they aren't kept too dry. If I were to get a baby that isn't kept too dry, would I be able to transition it slowly to the way you keep your babies? If so, how? So far I plan on misting the cage twice a day and keeping a water dish where it can soak and drink out off at all times.

Are sulcatas able to eat Timothy hay safely? I took care of my neighbor's guinea pig for a few weeks over the summer and it ate this grass and timothy hay mixture. I don't know what it's called since the bag she left at my place that I have of it is in a clear bag, but it sort of looks like this so I'm assuming it's safe since it's for other small animals as well. I'll probably ask for the brand and buy some tomorrow if it's OK for them.

LLL does a decent job of housing and soaking them, but what I'm trying to warn you about is the care they get in their first few days or weeks BEFORE LLL gets them.

If you set up your enclosure correctly you won't need to mist twice a day, and misting just evaporates in minutes anyway.

Adult sulcatas will eat timothy hay. Babies usually won't. Dry hay is more for older bigger sulcatas.

 

[Jodie]

I bought 2 Leopard hatchlings online and one of them died slowly after a couple months of seeming fine. It was absolutely horrible watching her get sicker and sicker. Nothing I did helped her. I will never buy from anyone other than a breeder directly again, so I can ensure they were started correctly. Not only is it a waste of money, it was devastating and very time consuming trying everything I could to try to save her. Please learn from my mistake n don't put yourself through that.

 

[Abdulla6169]

I bought 2 Leopard hatchlings online and one of them died slowly after a couple months of seeming fine. It was absolutely horrible watching her get sicker and sicker. Nothing I did helped her. I will never buy from anyone other than a breeder directly again, so I can ensure they were started correctly. Not only is it a waste of money, it was devastating and very time consuming trying everything I could to try to save her. Please learn from my mistake n don't put yourself through that.

This makes me feel so sad, but serves as a reminder for all those new members!

 

[Smile]

I'll probably wait until there's a reptile expo near me so I can get the sulcata from a breeder I can personally talk to and closely inspect the babies, then. Anyone in the East coast know if breeders carry hatchling sulcatas at the White Plains, NY or Hamburg PA reptile shows?

 

[Smile]

Actually I change my mind, I'm getting my baby directly from Lance... but it won't be now, it'll probably be towards the end of September. Can anyone that knows about check writing and stuff PM me haha? I feel so embarrassed asking about this stuff because it must be so simple.

 

[Abdulla6169]

Actually I change my mind, I'm getting my baby directly from Lance... but it won't be now, it'll probably be towards the end of September. Can anyone that knows about check writing and stuff PM me haha? I feel so embarrassed asking about this stuff because it must be so simple.

Do you have a bank account? Ask the bank for a check book... It's a lot easier than it seems

 

[Jodie]

Actually I change my mind, I'm getting my baby directly from Lance... but it won't be now, it'll probably be towards the end of September. Can anyone that knows about check writing and stuff PM me haha? I feel so embarrassed asking about this stuff because it must be so simple.

You can just go to your bank n ask for a cashier's check as well. They will fill it out for you. Just tell them how much n to who.

 

[Smile]

Hey guys, I got this in my email from LLL this morning.

Our baby sulcattas are housed in groups in large vision cages, typically on bark bedding. We rotate them for time outdoors in the natural sunlight and back inside under UVB and basking heat. We feed them a variety of fresh greens. Their enclosure is sprayed down daily so it stays relatively humid. (Please note that larger juveniles do not require the high level of humidity that babies do).

Sounds exactly how Tom raises his babies, humid while they're young and slowly decreasing it as they get older. What do you think? Should I just go ahead and order from them?

 

[Abdulla6169]

Hey guys, I got this in my email from LLL this morning.

Our baby sulcattas are housed in groups in large vision cages, typically on bark bedding. We rotate them for time outdoors in the natural sunlight and back inside under UVB and basking heat. We feed them a variety of fresh greens. Their enclosure is sprayed down daily so it stays relatively humid. (Please note that larger juveniles do not require the high level of humidity that babies do).

Sounds exactly how Tom raises his babies, humid while they're young and slowly decreasing it as they get older. What do you think? Should I just go ahead and order from them?

Get one from Lance, my friend just sent him a text message & send him the money by mail. That's a very easy route