Sulcata hatchling

[Claudiaromanoh]

So we just got a new baby sulcata. And his skin has been kind of flaking off and his eyes seem a bit different and he recently started squealing. I’m not sure if this is normal the way he looks or i’m over reacting.
His enclosure is about 95 at the hottest area and he has space to move if he wants to get away from the heat. I’ve been having trouble trying to keep the humidity up and can’t seem to keep it constantly at a good humidity. I bought a fogger because its the only way to get the humidity up. Hes on coconut husk.
His head is flaky and pieces seem to be falling off and he acts as if it bothers him.

The squealing started after we got him the fogger. He makes the noise and then rubs his eyes with his arms. He also sounds like he may have moisture in his nose.
He seems to be eating normally but I haven’t seen him poop in about 4 days. But the last poop was massive and he got it under all his belly.
I’ve attached some pictures and hopefully I can get advice on if he looks okay and what might be the deal with his flaky skin and squeeling.

 

[Tom]

So we just got a new baby sulcata. And his skin has been kind of flaking off and his eyes seem a bit different and he recently started squealing. I’m not sure if this is normal the way he looks or i’m over reacting.
His enclosure is about 95 at the hottest area and he has space to move if he wants to get away from the heat. I’ve been having trouble trying to keep the humidity up and can’t seem to keep it constantly at a good humidity. I bought a fogger because its the only way to get the humidity up. Hes on coconut husk.
His head is flaky and pieces seem to be falling off and he acts as if it bothers him.

The squealing started after we got him the fogger. He makes the noise and then rubs his eyes with his arms. He also sounds like he may have moisture in his nose.
He seems to be eating normally but I haven’t seen him poop in about 4 days. But the last poop was massive and he got it under all his belly.
I’ve attached some pictures and hopefully I can get advice on if he looks okay and what might be the deal with his flaky skin and squeeling.

Hello and welcome. Your pics didn't attach.

Most of the care info for this species is wrong. Read this for the correct care info and fix whatever is wrong. Stop using the fogger. Those shouldn't be used. What are you using for night heat? They need it warm all the time. Are you using any UV? What type of bulb?

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions and conversation are welcome.

 

[lionheartHC]

Hello and welcome. Your pics didn't attach.

Most of the care info for this species is wrong. Read this for the correct care info and fix whatever is wrong. Stop using the fogger. Those shouldn't be used. What are you using for night heat? They need it warm all the time. Are you using any UV? What type of bulb?

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions and conversation are welcome.

Hey Tom, is there a specific reason foggers should be avoided? I have mine being delivered today with a humidity controller to help keep my humidity at 80% during the day.

 

[Tom]

Hey Tom, is there a specific reason foggers should be avoided? I have mine being delivered today with a humidity controller to help keep my humidity at 80% during the day.

Foggers put out air filled with water vapor. That makes me uncomfortable, and I've seen an anecdotally high amount of respiratory infections associated with their use. Water vapor in the air is different than humid air.

Also, it fails to adress the root problem which is too much ventilation that allows your humidity and warmth to escape in the first place. If you aren't holding humidity in your enclosure, then you also aren't holding the warmth in, which means you are burning more electricity to keep temps up, which dries things out even more and makes it even harder to maintain humidity, and also contributes to pyramiding.

Using a humidifier is like trying to bail out a sinking boat with a cup. Plug the leak, and you won't have to continually bail out your boat.

Using a proper closed chamber solves all of these problems.

 

[lionheartHC]

Foggers put out air filled with water vapor. That makes me uncomfortable, and I've seen an anecdotally high amount of respiratory infections associated with their use. Water vapor in the air is different than humid air.

Also, it fails to adress the root problem which is too much ventilation that allows your humidity and warmth to escape in the first place. If you aren't holding humidity in your enclosure, then you also aren't holding the warmth in, which means you are burning more electricity to keep temps up, which dries things out even more and makes it even harder to maintain humidity, and also contributes to pyramiding.

Using a humidifier is like trying to bail out a sinking boat with a cup. Plug the leak, and you won't have to continually bail out your boat.

Using a proper closed chamber solves all of these problems.

I agree entirely but my enclosure is totally sealed and has steady temps of 90F but the humidity declines to about 70%. It gets hot enough that the thermostat kicks off my CHE all the time. Evrything is sealed and all the cracks are filled with silicone. (6ftx3ftx3ft by the way.) Aren't Sulcata hatchlings notorious for not getting respiratory issues due to moisture and humidity? I'd assume if you can soak them/mist their enclosure for extended periods of time there might not be a major difference right?

 

[Maro2Bear]

To play devil’s advocate here just a bit. I built a fully enclosed enclosure for our young Sully. BUT, i did have a ReptiFogger in place as well. I had everything on timers and the fogger came on about 1000 and off at 1400. This coincided with the hottest parts of our Sully’s day. I maintained all the sweet hot & basking & ambient temperature spots that Tom advises in his Care Sheet. I just felt the fogger really increased and maintainedthe humidity. So, the fogger/mister might not be for folks who don’t closely monitor their enclosures & temps & humidity. But, for those in tune & dialed in, works well. Mind you, this was a home built wooden enclosure, glass lid, but leaks I’m sure. Not a fancy high-end plastic viv with all the bells & whistles.

So in the end, Id do the same. Fogger worked well & kept things humid. Enclosure stayed at good temps. Substrate stayed moist. I also soaked our Sully religiously for “years” until she no longer fit in the kitchen sink. Yes, daily for what seems like a long time.

Today. Never an issue. Never a wheeze or a sniffle. Never a vet visit. I can barely lift our “little” guy. I’m guessing close to 100 lbs now & going strong.

ps - I was also lucky enough to get a well-hydrated, well-started hatchling from @Lancecham . That helped too!

 

[Tom]

I agree entirely but my enclosure is totally sealed and has steady temps of 90F but the humidity declines to about 70%. It gets hot enough that the thermostat kicks off my CHE all the time. Evrything is sealed and all the cracks are filled with silicone. (6ftx3ftx3ft by the way.) Aren't Sulcata hatchlings notorious for not getting respiratory issues due to moisture and humidity? I'd assume if you can soak them/mist their enclosure for extended periods of time there might not be a major difference right?

If the enclosure is sealed and you are not able to maintain humidity, it means you aren't generating any, or enough. What type of substrate is in the enclosure? Is it damp? What size water dish? I'm able to maintain 80+% humidity in my cribo enclosures with a humid hide and a large water dish even with dry substrate.

 

[lionheartHC]

If the enclosure is sealed and you are not able to maintain humidity, it means you aren't generating any, or enough. What type of substrate is in the enclosure? Is it damp? What size water dish? I'm able to maintain 80+% humidity in my cribo enclosures with a humid hide and a large water dish even with dry substrate.

Edit: I should add, when I wet everything down, it will stay at 80%+ for a few hours but then works it’s way down to 70% pretty quickly

I’m using coco coir mixed with Cyprus mulch and have reptibark around the terrcotta lids so that he doesn’t drop substrate into the dishes. I use a small watering can every morning and wet everything down and mist probably 4-5 times a day. I have the water dish overtop of the 150w CHE. I also have a large humid hide with sphagnum moss over top of a smaller CHE (he’s never tried to eat it). I’ve tried to figure out anything to help the problem and figured the fogger was an easy solution.

 

[Tom]

I’m using coco coir mixed with Cyprus mulch and have reptibark around the terrcotta lids so that he doesn’t drop substrate into the dishes. I use a small watering can every morning and wet everything down and mist probably 4-5 times a day. I have the water dish overtop of the 150w CHE. I also have a large humid hide with sphagnum moss over top of a smaller CHE (he’s never tried to eat it). I’ve tried to figure out anything to help the problem and figured the fogger was an easy solution.

Can you post a picture of the enclosure? Are the lights on the inside, or is there a hole in the top to allow lights on the outside to shine in? What type of doors? Sliders, or swingers? Front opening or top opening?

Something isn't adding up...

How are you measuring humidity? With what device(s)?

 

[lionheartHC]

Can you post a picture of the enclosure? Are the lights on the inside, or is there a hole in the top to allow lights on the outside to shine in? What type of doors? Sliders, or swingers? Front opening or top opening?

Something isn't adding up...

How are you measuring humidity? With what device(s)?

Sure thing! The door is on hinges but I added a rubber seal around the entire thing to make it totally closed. I have two LED recessed light fixtures in there too but sealed them with silicone as well.

 

[Tom]

Sure thing! The door is on hinges but I added a rubber seal around the entire thing to make it totally closed. I have two LED recessed light fixtures in there too but sealed them with silicone as well.

No holes in the top? I see the digital thermometer. Do you have more than one? I get one of those that malfunctions in high humidity once in a while. I run about two dozen of them continusoualsy in all my enclosures and night boxes.

 

[lionheartHC]

No holes in the top? I see the digital thermometer. Do you have more than one? I get one of those that malfunctions in high humidity once in a while. I run about two dozen of them continusoualsy in all my enclosures and night boxes.

Nope no holes in the top, I plugged where I drilled out to run the cords. I have several being delivered today but I use an infrared temperature gun to check everything. I just have that digital one in there for something to go off of.

 

[Tom]

Nope no holes in the top, I plugged where I drilled out to run the cords. I have several being delivered today but I use an infrared temperature gun to check everything. I just have that digital one in there for something to go off of.

Which what is pictured there, damp substrate, water bowl, live plants, no holes on top, your humidity should be 90+% all the time.

Either the gauge is wrong, or the humidity is escaping somewhere.

 

[lionheartHC]

Which what is pictured there, damp substrate, water bowl, live plants, no holes on top, your humidity should be 90+% all the time.

Either the gauge is wrong, or the humidity is escaping somewhere.

Got it, once I get everything installed tonight I'll see if there's a difference between the readings. As always, thanks for the help!

 

[turtlesteve]

Which what is pictured there, damp substrate, water bowl, live plants, no holes on top, your humidity should be 90+% all the time.

Either the gauge is wrong, or the humidity is escaping somewhere.

It could be that the moisture is escaping into or through the plywood since it does not look like it was sealed. Plywood can soak up a good bit of moisture.

It is also possible that the humidity is condensing somewhere, if there is a significant temperature gradient in the enclosure.

 

[Tom]

It could be that the moisture is escaping into or through the plywood since it does not look like it was sealed. Plywood can soak up a good bit of moisture.

I used untreated plywood boxes for years and never had any trouble maintaining humidity in the 90 percentile range. And the doors on mine had some significant gaps.

 

[turtlesteve]

I used untreated plywood boxes for years and never had any trouble maintaining humidity in the 90 percentile range. And the doors on mine had some significant gaps.

Interesting. I had problems with unsealed wood. Now I will not use wood unless it is sealed with polyurethane, oil based enamel, epoxy, etc. Maybe it was not what I thought, as I have made many changes in my enclosures over time.

 

[Markw84]

@Tom I agree with @turtlesteve Dry wood will soak up a tremendous amount of moisture. The substrate also does not look uniformly moist throughout. Have you ever bought lumber and noticed some boards can weigh over 4x more than others the same size? Moisture content. If you use dry wood and do not seal it, it will absorb lots of moisture until it gets it moisture level up to where it is more stable in the moist air. It also does not look like the enclosure is insulated - just a layer of plywood. With a 150 watt CHE and and additional CHE plus basking lights, there's a lot of heat to maintain temps. And that is continually drying the enclosure. The wood can eventually soak up moisture and become a more stable moisture level for the enclosure, but with that amount of heat and a 36" tall uninsulated enclosure, I doubt it.

 

[Tom]

@Tom I agree with @turtlesteve Dry wood will soak up a tremendous amount of moisture. The substrate also does not look uniformly moist throughout. Have you ever bought lumber and noticed some boards can weigh over 4x more than others the same size? Moisture content. If you use dry wood and do not seal it, it will absorb lots of moisture until it gets it moisture level up to where it is more stable in the moist air. It also does not look like the enclosure is insulated - just a layer of plywood. With a 150 watt CHE and and additional CHE plus basking lights, there's a lot of heat to maintain temps. And that is continually drying the enclosure. The wood can eventually soak up moisture and become a more stable moisture level for the enclosure, but with that amount of heat and a 36" tall uninsulated enclosure, I doubt it.

My untreated wooden 4x8 closed chambers were in the garage. It gets cold in there in winter, so I did have them insulated and I had two 100 watt CHEs maintaining ambient temps, plus fluorescents and flood bulbs during the day. I suppose the insulation could make the difference.

 

[Robivens]

My untreated wooden 4x8 closed chambers were in the garage. It gets cold in there in winter, so I did have them insulated and I had two 100 watt CHEs maintaining ambient temps, plus fluorescents and flood bulbs during the day. I suppose the insulation could make the difference.

Hello Tom. Can you take a pic of the 4x8 chamber in your garage? My neighbor is very handy and is going to help me build something. Time to get out of the tortoise box.