So, really how intelligent?

[yillt]

My tortoise, Billy has been in hibernation since the start of December and I'm missing him dreadfully. (When do I take him out?) I have been thinking a lot and I just wondered, how clever are they really? Do they have any feelings ( apart from fear and pleasure obviously.) Please explain your answers.Tortoises are creatures of precaution and safety. (No wonder they live so long.) My tortoise recoils when I do movements that are to quick. He seems excited when I give him treats. He gets bored when I take things out of his cage to wash and he has nothing to do. I have seen curiousity, terror, happiness, pleasure, excitement and understanding in him. What do you think on the subject and have you seen your tortoise doing anything of the sort?

 

[ascott]

My tortoise, Billy has been in hibernation since the start of December and I'm missing him dreadfully. (When do I take him out?) I have been thinking a lot and I just wondered, how clever are they really? Do they have any feelings ( apart from fear and pleasure obviously.) Please explain your answers.Tortoises are creatures of precaution and safety. (No wonder they live so long.) My tortoise recoils when I do movements that are to quick. He seems excited when I give him treats. He gets bored when I take things out of his cage to wash and he has nothing to do. I have seen curiousity, terror, happiness, pleasure, excitement and understanding in him. What do you think on the subject and have you seen your tortoise doing anything of the sort?

I do believe that living creatures all have levels of awareness and presence....but I am curious about what behavior you have equated to "terror" and "understanding".....please understand I am not poking fun, I am genuinely curious of these two noted emotions seen...

 

[yillt]

It's ok! Well, by understanding I mean recognition. He recognises me and his favourite food. By terror, I mean he will be scared if you move to quickly or if you put him in a 'foreign' area.

 

[WithLisa]

Here is an experiment about social learning in redfooted tortoises. They seem to be quite smart.
http://othes.univie.ac.at/11967/

 

[SamJ21]

I've had my horsefield for a few weeks now. He is 9 years old. When I let him roam up and down my kitchen which is quite long and thin and the cupboards don't have kick boards on then so as you can imagine if he goes under its a nightmare. But if I spot him heading under I say Ah ah noo and he turns around an goes in the opposite direction. At first I thought it was a hilarious coincidence but he has done it several times for myself and my mum now! I think he is quite clever. Xx

 

[Tom]

I've had my horsefield for a few weeks now. He is 9 years old. When I let him roam up and down my kitchen which is quite long and thin and the cupboards don't have kick boards on then so as you can imagine if he goes under its a nightmare. But if I spot him heading under I say Ah ah noo and he turns around an goes in the opposite direction. At first I thought it was a hilarious coincidence but he has done it several times for myself and my mum now! I think he is quite clever. Xx

If no one has warned you yet, this is a very dangerous practice. Many tortoises have been killed or injured by this practice and most of us here recommend against it. Tortoise belong in tortoise enclosures, not loose on the floor.

 

[Tom]

(When do I take him out?)

I usually wait until the weather warms up. Most of the time that is March or April.

 

[SamJ21]

If no one has warned you yet, this is a very dangerous practice. Many tortoises have been killed or injured by this practice and most of us here recommend against it. Tortoise belong in tortoise enclosures, not loose on the floor.

He's only out for very short periods of time and is highly supervised. There is nothing he can hurt himself on by just walking up and down the rug.

 

[Tom]

He's only out for very short periods of time and is highly supervised. There is nothing he can hurt himself on by just walking up and down the rug.

You are wrong. I can guarantee you that everyone who has had a tortoise get killed or injured or had to pay for a several thousand dollar surgery to remove an ingested foreign body from their tortoise though the exact same thing.

The only question is whether you will be one of those people that is able to learn through the mistakes of others, or if you will have to learn the hard way, at your tortoises expense.

Or maybe you will continue to be lucky for a while longer... at least until the day you are not.

 

[SamJ21]

You are wrong. I can guarantee you that everyone who has had a tortoise get killed or injured or had to pay for a several thousand dollar surgery to remove an ingested foreign body from their tortoise though the exact same thing.

The only question is whether you will be one of those people that is able to learn through the mistakes of others, or if you will have to learn the hard way, at your tortoises expense.

Or maybe you will continue to be lucky for a while longer... at least until the day you are not.

My floor is clean an there are no foreign bodies for him to ingest. So there for in my eyes he is fine. I know what you are saying but I'm saying I've covered all areas to make it safe for him an like I said he is highly supervised and watched while he is out. I'm not stupid.

Anyway I didn't come on the forum to be lectured. I came on to share abit about Arnie and maybe get advice on things I may be unsure of.

 

[Tom]

My floor is clean an there are no foreign bodies for him to ingest. So there for in my eyes he is fine. I know what you are saying but I'm saying I've covered all areas to make it safe for him an like I said he is highly supervised and watched while he is out. I'm not stupid.

Anyway I didn't come on the forum to be lectured. I came on to share abit about Arnie and maybe get advice on things I may be unsure of.

And I am on here to try and help people not make the same mistakes I have made, and seen others make many times. I am here to give advice on things that I am sure of.

Of all the people I have seen standing teary-eyed at the vets office because of something unexpected that happened to their tortoise while it was loose on the floor, I would not consider a single one of them stupid. I don't consider you stupid either. Its not a question of stupidity. It is a question of people not realizing all the hidden dangers until it is too late. You can choose to ignore the warnings and eventually you will learn the hard way what I learned years ago, the hard way, but I hope that someone reading this conversation will make a wiser choice than you and possibly save their tortoise from injury, surgery or death. I also hope that if you continue to do this against the advice of someone who has "been there and done that", that you will be one of the lucky ones that never has anything bad happen.

I wish you and your tortoise good luck, and I won't "lecture" you anymore.

 

[Yvonne G]

Ok...this is the last off topic post on this thread:

We just had a very sad young lady post about a month ago how she unknowingly closed her baby sulcata's head in the back of the door.

So, back to how intelligent tortoises are, ok?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Tortoises are more driven by instinct and some learned behavior. As owners, we are the ones who must be intelligent and learn what is good and bad and keep them out of harm.

 

[ascott]

My floor is clean an there are no foreign bodies for him to ingest. So there for in my eyes he is fine. I know what you are saying but I'm saying I've covered all areas to make it safe for him an like I said he is highly supervised and watched while he is out. I'm not stupid.

Anyway I didn't come on the forum to be lectured. I came on to share abit about Arnie and maybe get advice on things I may be unsure of.

There are many opinions on the subject of allowing a tort/turtle to free roam or not...perhaps another thread can be opened to further "fight" or "argue" about that as well as who believes they are the almighty know all --- there truly is no one way that is perfect---we all work within the geographic locale and individual environment we have at hand, period. You are also correct, no one appreciates being scolded....especially when there truly is no source that is qualified on this earth to judge.

I would like however to point out that the party that started this thread is a very young lady (12) who I can bet, did not want the thread to become this....just saying is all....

Here is an interesting read dear;

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/animal-odd-couples-excerpt-the-emotional-lives-of-animals/8005/

 

[crimson_lotus]

I would like to think they are intelligent, but my tortoises actions beg to differ sometimes.

I think when it comes to food they can be geniuses, like how to reach an unreachable plant. Even how to escape their enclosure. But other things...like my tortoise trying to get under something when she is way too big, or walking into a bucket because there is a reflection in the back - she did this for about an hour once - show me that she isn't the brightest crayon in the box. She is still adorable and awesome, regardless.

 

[smarch]

Alright heres my take. They are pretty brilliant, but not necessarily in a smart way... but heck maybe its just RTs I speak for. My Nank is an absolute expert at getting to what he wants even if made impossible. We just built him a new enclosure, there a loft above the built in house that I keep 2 boxes of growing weeds for him... but he decided from the start he wanted to be up there. Caught him right away almost up in the plants, moved the boxes to block his way. Day 2 (yesterday while I was at work) he pushed the boxes off the loft and climbed up, flipping himself in the process. Last night, added the little extension on top to add hight and hopefully stop him... he IMMEDIATELY saw this as a challenge and went for it while my dad was still there (see below picture).
They're super smart when it comes to problem solving, not so smart when it comes to well being, because he ended up almost flipping again... literally for some dirt because no plant is growing yet!

 

[WithLisa]

More stubborn than intelligent...

 

[WillTort2]

Alright heres my take. They are pretty brilliant, but not necessarily in a smart way... but heck maybe its just RTs I speak for. My Nank is an absolute expert at getting to what he wants even if made impossible. We just built him a new enclosure, there a loft above the built in house that I keep 2 boxes of growing weeds for him... but he decided from the start he wanted to be up there. Caught him right away almost up in the plants, moved the boxes to block his way. Day 2 (yesterday while I was at work) he pushed the boxes off the loft and climbed up, flipping himself in the process. Last night, added the little extension on top to add hight and hopefully stop him... he IMMEDIATELY saw this as a challenge and went for it while my dad was still there (see below picture).
They're super smart when it comes to problem solving, not so smart when it comes to well being, because he ended up almost flipping again... literally for some dirt because no plant is growing yet!

 

[WillTort2]

From looking at your picture, most Russians would consider that climb a mere "walk in the park" not a true challenge.

When you have a corner you must put a cap board to prevent them from scaling the walls. They have no fear when it comes to going up a fence or a wall.

 

[alex_ornelas]

I think they are smart to an extent and it's mainly learned behavior. But when I left for taho for the weekend my mom watched my sulcata oliver and said he seemed sad while I was gone and when I was back all he wanted to do was snuggle. If I put him on the grass to roam he just sat there