TORTOISE STRESS. ARE THEY REALLY THAT FRAGILE

[Big Charlie]

When I first got Charlie, I didn't think about how he would react to anything I did, as long as his needs were met. I guess I knew he didn't like being soaked but since it was good for him, I didn't think about his stress level. When I put him in the car and took him into my daughter's school for show and tell, I was surprised that he couldn't stop pooping. That's when I realized how stressful it was for him. In my opinion, his increased stress wasn't worth entertaining some kindergartners. He has had other times of stress in his life since then; nothing life threatening but I can tell when things bother him. Such as when we filled in his burrows more than once and blocked his access to them. I don't see any reason to add any stress to his life. I wouldn't purposely hold him upside down if it wasn't necessary, for example.

 

[wellington]

When I first got Charlie, I didn't think about how he would react to anything I did, as long as his needs were met. I guess I knew he didn't like being soaked but since it was good for him, I didn't think about his stress level. When I put him in the car and took him into my daughter's school for show and tell, I was surprised that he couldn't stop pooping. That's when I realized how stressful it was for him. In my opinion, his increased stress wasn't worth entertaining some kindergartners. He has had other times of stress in his life since then; nothing life threatening but I can tell when things bother him. Such as when we filled in his burrows more than once and blocked his access to them. I don't see any reason to add any stress to his life. I wouldn't purposely hold him upside down if it wasn't necessary, for example.

I agree, I wouldn't cause stress on purpose and not recommending this to be done. I also agree that they can be stressed, like anything else. I also agree, that if you know a particular thing stresses your tortoise, don't do it, unless it is something that needs to be done for their well being. Also agree that a sick tortoise is more susceptible to stress and also a tortoise that is not properly being housed. I think every tortoise is different in its stress level and each species may have different stress levels from other species. I just don't agree that every time someone does something a little out of the norm is a stressful thing for them. Some torts may not like it as much as another, but I don't think that always means they are stressed.

 

[DPtortiose]

'Stress' is a rather broad term and most anecdotal reference seem to confuse the two general definition. I'm not very intimately familiar with the chemical and physical reactions that reptiles experience with stress, but I have a general idea how stress works in a mammalian body. So I think it might be useful to the discussion to define a clear difference between two very different types of stress: long term and short term. This distinction might seem a bit simple and rather vague, but these processes follow very distinct neural pathways and have a very different effect on the body. Again, not sure if reptiles experience these exact hormones or reactions, but it might give a better definition of stress.

Short term: epinephrine and norepinephrine (also known as adrenaline an noradrenaline)

This is what you feel when you go bungee jumping, base diving or preform other dangerous activities. This 'adrenaline rush' is caused in the brain (more specific the hypothalamus), when it processes an dangerous or stressful situation. It sends a signal to your adrenal glands (they are attached to your kidneys) and they begin the excrete epinephrine and norepinephrine.

This has several effects:

- Your body releases more glucose (the 'fuel' your body runs on) in the blood stream. This glucose is 'made' from glycogen, a substance stored in your liver as a long term energy supply.
- Increased blood pressure.
- Increased breathing
- Increased metabolic rate
- Your blood flow is redirected from non-essential systems (like the digested track) to your muscles, lungs, brains etc.

As you might guess this all happens really fast.

Examples of when this might happen:
- Sky diving
- You're under attack
- Pretty much most situations where you actively sense (life threating) danger

Long term: mineralocorticoids and glucocorticoids

These work quite a bit differently. Unlike short term stress hormones, these aren't activated by nerve signals from your brain. These hormones are released in reaction to other hormones (ACTH) and work radically different from epinephrine and norepinephrine.

The effects of glucocorticoids:

- Your body releases more glucose in the blood stream. This glucose is 'made' from proteins and fat in your body.
- It suppresses the immune system

The effects of mineralocorticoids:

- Kidneys take up more water and sodium from urine. (Not completely accurate but that's another story)
- Blood volume and pressure are increased.

These processes happen very slowly over the course of months, weeks or days.

Examples of when this might happen:
- Social pressure
- Environmental stress
- Anything that puts intense mental pressure on you for increased periods of time.

So while picking a tortoise up might cause some short term stress, it's rather harmless. Some people argue that this kind of stress every once in a while is healthy. Long term stress however, is not harmless. It suppresses the immune system and puts strain on the circulatory system. Of course this is only valid if we assume tortoise have similar system in place.

On a side note, viewing or thinking about nature has an remarkable calming effect on most people. Perhaps this is true of tortoises as well? I would be curious to see if outdoor animals in a well planted enclosure are more stress resistant then ones in tortoise tables.

 

[MPRC]

I man handle 4 of my 5. Squirt is touchy though, if I approach too quickly or don't hold her level she shells up. The others are very curious and look around and seem to enjoy some interaction. They are all CB Redfoots

 

[vikki01]

Could it also be linked to a similar thing as "early socialization" in dogs. For example if a tortoise is regularly handled, bathed and moved around from a very young age it will be less bothered by it as it is what it has always been used to. Whereas an older tortoise who has received very little contact will presumably find the same situations more stressful. Could positive conditioning also be relevant i.e if the tortoise receives a "reward" (generally food!!!) in association with something it may perceive as stressful will it become more able to cope and start to actually not be be stressed???

 

[Rue]

That's what I think too, but the feedback I've received suggests many people think otherwise.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I start to socialize my tortoises from the time they are babies. I don't believe they are stressed after being messed with for a few weeks

 

[Maggie Cummings]

No, I'm not a newbie, somebody fix me......well, you know what i mean

 

[Maggie Cummings]

No, I'm not a newbie, somebody fix me......well, you know what i mean

 

[Jodie]

This is interesting. I try to not stress my tortoises, but certainly do what needs to be done. Among my leopards, I notice drastic differences in their stress. My largest female is very high stress. Moving her from outside to inside causes several days of hiding and not eating every time. My male throws fits when things change. He stomps around and destroys anything he can. My other female doesn't care at all. Nothing phases her. She is the least shy, and by far the most outgoing.
I would think it is in the raising of them, but I have a trio of 2 year old leopards that I have raised since hatchlings. They also have different levels of stress from the same circumstances.

 

[wellington]

No, I'm not a newbie, somebody fix me......well, you know what i mean

LOL, sorry Maggie, there is just no fixing you
Maybe @Yvonne G can do something

 

[Loohan]

I am always very considerate when i handle my little boxie. Never really thought of it in terms of stress, exactly, just respect and friendship.
I don't just yank him out of his box, especially if he's snoozing. I wipe the coir off his shell gently while sweet-talking him briefly, and gently pick him up and put him in my palm.

I figure, he already knows i'm hundreds of times his size and he is completely at my mercy. I try not to rub it in. I respect and love him, and don't want to act domineering unnecessarily. I try to see things from his perspective, which is that he is tiny, vulnerable, dependent, and has very little control over his life.

 

[SamuelM]

Scaring a tortoise may cause it to urinate. This is not a good thing, because it could cause dehydration. Water is precious to a tortoise, especially in a dry environment. They can recycle water, if needed. I believe A turtles weight is 40 percent water weight. I don't believe that includes fluids in the blood and cells

 

[wellington]

Scaring a tortoise may cause it to urinate. This is not a good thing, because it could cause dehydration. Water is precious to a tortoise, especially in a dry environment. They can recycle water, if needed. I believe A turtles weight is 40 percent water weight. I don't believe that includes fluids in the blood and cells

What do you mean by they can recycle water? I would think if they could "recycle water" then urinating cuz it got scared wouldn't be such a big deal?

 

[WithLisa]

What do you mean by they can recycle water? I would think if they could "recycle water" then urinating cuz it got scared wouldn't be such a big deal?

The bladder works like a reservoir for them, they can withdraw water from the urine if needed. So causing them to empty their bladder can be dangerous, especially for small tortoises because they can dehydrate very fast.

 

[Calatrava]

Mine leopard and redfoot are all captive bred and raised by human from very early age. I feel they are more relaxed when I handle them and could eat immediately after I let them go. In contrast, the south east Asia tortoise is very wary, I suspected it was caught from wild. It alreay gets improvement now as it does not shell up when i grab it and can roam close to where i stand. This would not be possible for the first a few months on its arrival.

My redfoot is within one year old, it never retracts to its shell when a human approaches and checks it upclose. So I guess it may be something to do with the age it gets socialize.

But if you really don't want do disturb your tort, I recommend you to install a webcam. I had one for my leopard, it has night vision and can detect and record movements and send alert to me immediately after. I can watch them on my mobile phone when I was away. In fact, I also setup a switch with wifi along with hygrothermograph and a laptop fan, all can be controlled remotely through one app. This allows me to watch my leopard at any time and control the temp manually.

Here is the snapshot from my mobile:

 

[Gillian M]

Mine leopard and redfoot are all captive bred and raised by human from very early age. I feel they are more relaxed when I handle them and could eat immediately after I let them go. In contrast, the south east Asia tortoise is very wary, I suspected it was caught from wild. It alreay gets improvement now as it does not shell up when i grab it and can roam close to where i stand. This would not be possible for the first a few months on its arrival.

My redfoot is within one year old, it never retracts to its shell when a human approaches and checks it upclose. So I guess it may be something to do with the age it gets socialize.

But if you really don't want do disturb your tort, I recommend you to install a webcam. I had one for my leopard, it has night vision and can detect and record movements and send alert to me immediately after. I can watch them on my mobile phone when I was away. In fact, I also setup a switch with wifi along with hygrothermograph and a laptop fan, all can be controlled remotely through one app. This allows me to watch my leopard at any time and control the temp manually.

Here is the snapshot from my mobile:

Love that! It looks unique, something different.

 

[BrianWI]

My sulcata stresses me with her antics. She, however, takes everything in stride.

 

[Big Charlie]

My sulcata stresses me with her antics. She, however, takes everything in stride.

I stress a lot more about Charlie now than before I found this forum. I didn't know so many things could go wrong!

 

[theguy67]

The only time I saw my tortoise "stressed" was when I introduced a male to my 2 females. The larger female chased him around the enclosure, trying to bite him. I just let them work it out, and now they don't bother each other.

I'd say its easy to stress a tortoise if you have them in improper conditions, otherwise they are pretty hardy animals. I feel like I could leave mine for months, and they wouldn't know any different.