Smelly sulcata baby tort!!

[exoticsdr]

[/quote]

That's a tough one since I haven't changed anything.
Maybe I'll have to eliminate one thing at a time.
I will definitely have them run whatever tests they can.
I'll post an update.
Thank you so much.

[/quote]

Funny thing about allergies that most people don't understand. You become allergic to things that you are exposed to over and over, some things it only takes two exposures and some things you become allergic to over an extended period of time. I grew up in a farming community in South Dakota and never had any allergies, but if I go back now during harvest season, my life is miserable. Same thing with our pets. It is interesting that if you have an allergy, continued exposure will sometimes give you resistance to an allergy...go figure, contradictions everywhere.

 

[lisalove]

Nodder update-
Took our little guy to another vet today and was told again that he has "mild edema due to overhydration". She said the swelling was only mild and limited to the loose skin around his legs. She also said his eyes had only slight puffiness.
To me he looks the same as the pictures I posted on the first page, so when he went in today, she saw identical swelling as those pictures. She did say he was very alert and active like a healthy tort, and was not showing any other signs of illness.
I was told to soak him once a week for now to see if that helps. If not, I have to bring him back in for bloodwork and some other tests.
They are running another fecal test as well.
I am applying all the feedback I've been given here-thanks to all and I'm hoping it all works.
Still open to advice and suggestions.

---

Contradictions indeed!
Looks like trial and error is in order along with my changes.
We have a farm in South Dakota-near Howard. I know that miserable life during harvest time as well. In fact just seeing the words South Dakota harvest makes my eyes water and itch!!!!!
I do appreciate your feedback and may need to pick your brain more.
Thanks

 

[exoticsdr]

Howard, SD? Small world indeed! My wife is from just down the road in Wessington Springs.

 

[Tom]

Lisa, your experience certainly illustrates why many reptile keepers are frustrated with and often don't bother with vets. No offense Dr. Westin. There are some very good ones out there, but for two different "tortoise" vets to say that he's over-hydrated is just plain disheartening. If I drink more water than I need, I just pee more. I don't swell up like a balloon. If her tort looks like that from too many soaks, then how come mine aren't bursting at the seems from too much water?

Lisa, I'll bet that your problem is the TNT and too much supplementation. However, I just remembered someone a few months ago had something similar and worms were indicated as the cause and problem. I can't find the thread now, but it was an unusual type of worm too. Something not often found in tortoises. It was around 4-5 months ago and I can't remember the details now. Sorry.

Either way, I'm hoping for the best for you.

 

[lisalove]

Crazy! We have friends in Wessington Springs-Bill Wolff and his family.
VERY small world. Wessington is a cute little town.
Glad to be living in California right now though-it's below zero in SD tonight!

 

[Tom]

I FOUND IT! Scroll down to post #5 for the diagnosis. Man I love this forum. I was way off on the time frame. It was all the way back in February of 2010.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Swollen-Sulcata?highlight=edema

 

[exoticsdr]

No offense taken here Tom, I was offended by the diagnosis though....overhydration indeed. It's called "edema" and it's a symptom of an underlying problem. A radiograph would be very helpful in ruling out "ascites" (belly full of fluid) as the cause.

 

[lisalove]

I FOUND IT! Scroll down to post #5 for the diagnosis. Man I love this forum. I was way off on the time frame. It was all the way back in February of 2010.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Swollen-Sulcata?highlight=edema

Thanks for the leg work!
The fecal came back negative for Trichomonas/Hexamonas and Pinworms.
I think a radiograph is up next.
Not the best pic but I thought I would send another. I could be hoping, but his legs seem to be 'deflating' a little. He's sleeping-so you can't tell with the eyes.

---

No offense taken here Tom, I was offended by the diagnosis though....overhydration indeed. It's called "edema" and it's a symptom of an underlying problem. A radiograph would be very helpful in ruling out "ascites" (belly full of fluid) as the cause.

Ok-so,
I'm thinking a radiograph is up next. In your (and anyone elses) opinion, should I wait to see if the things I'm doing now are helping for a week or so, or do it right away.
I want to point out he's eating great, pee and poop are normal volume. If he had "ascites" (belly full of fluid) would that compromise those things?

---

I know it may sound crazy, but if I could get a picture of a baby plastron with legs extended, maybe I can compare. Just a thought.

---

I know it may sound crazy, but if I could get a picture of a baby plastron with legs extended, maybe I can compare his to what a healthy one should look like. Just a thought. It seems like most of the time I see a plastron pic, legs are all tucked in.

 

[Yvonne G]

Be sure to remind the vet that the baby smells.

 

[exoticsdr]

Chances are the ascites would have an effect on normal functions, especially if his belly was full enough to be causing that kind of peripheral edema. Noticeable changes are encouraging and look like it is probably an allergic reaction as first thought, but if he doesn't normalize soon and you have to go back for another vet visit, a radiograph is where I would go next and bloodwork to check liver and kidney function...but I don't really think you will be going there.

 

[lisalove]

Thanks Yvonne.
The 2 vets I took him to didn't smell anything on him, nor does my husband.
When I sniffed him this morning, I could still smell the same thing I had been smelling (not infection), but more like a hay smell from his shell.
I appreciate your memory, as the smell is how all of this came about.
So far my nose is the only one who seems to smell anything.

 

[Tom]

Here are a few.

Daisy at 12 weeks old.

Trey at 16 weeks old.

Tuck at 6 weeks old.

 

[RianSeeking]

Cute baby tortoises. <covets>

Lisa, I know any swelling is a frightening thing, but it might make you feel a little better to know that he is not nearly as swollen as Josh was/is.

Josh is an adult wild caught Russian, not a baby sulcata, and she came to us with problems. I thought we were going to loose her pretty quickly after I realized how swollen she was, but the radiographs came back showing plenty of room for lungs and organs. She's more of a 'make the tort comfortable' rather than a failure to thrive. I guess.

Anyway, I changed a few things in her diet. I went strictly to Spring Mix, picking out the spinach. I stopped with dandelions, which she had been getting a lot of. Stopped with carrots as a treat. She was pretty restricted. I just started up dandelions again a few weeks ago.

Randomly and not applicable but interesting, I did two other things:

I lowered her MVB.

I rescued another Russian. As soon as they were allowed together Josh actually got up and crossed the cage, stretched out her neck and rested her head on his shell for the rest of the day.

She's gone from a very inflated tort who sat in one spot and watched everything to a mildly inflated tort who rambles around her table and can actually lift her shell off the ground. She's not normal, but she seems comfortable.

Anyway. Very off topic. But. Compared to Josh your handsome sulcata seems normal.

Again, I'm glad you're having him checked out. And I'm crossing fingers that everything is just fine.

And I should really be cleaning the house.

 

[lisalove]

Chances are the ascites would have an effect on normal functions, especially if his belly was full enough to be causing that kind of peripheral edema. Noticeable changes are encouraging and look like it is probably an allergic reaction as first thought, but if he doesn't normalize soon and you have to go back for another vet visit, a radiograph is where I would go next and bloodwork to check liver and kidney function...but I don't really think you will be going there.

Well, I'm not giving TNT and will only give calcium once-twice a week to see if that helps first. After that...we'll see what goes next!
Thanks

---

Here are a few

THANK YOU for being such a huge help Tom.
It really helps to see the comparison.
I see Nodder is a bit puffy.
He had lost 2 grams, so here is to hoping his water weight is going down.
Here are some more pics:

---

Cute baby tortoises. <covets>

Lisa, I know any swelling is a frightening thing, but it might make you feel a little better to know that he is not nearly as swollen as Josh was/is.

Josh is an adult wild caught Russian, not a baby sulcata, and she came to us with problems. I thought we were going to loose her pretty quickly after I realized how swollen she was, but the radiographs came back showing plenty of room for lungs and organs. She's more of a 'make the tort comfortable' rather than a failure to thrive. I guess.

Anyway, I changed a few things in her diet. I went strictly to Spring Mix, picking out the spinach. I stopped with dandelions, which she had been getting a lot of. Stopped with carrots as a treat. She was pretty restricted. I just started up dandelions again a few weeks ago.

Randomly and not applicable but interesting, I did two other things:

I lowered her MVB.

I rescued another Russian. As soon as they were allowed together Josh actually got up and crossed the cage, stretched out her neck and rested her head on his shell for the rest of the day.

She's gone from a very inflated tort who sat in one spot and watched everything to a mildly inflated tort who rambles around her table and can actually lift her shell off the ground. She's not normal, but she seems comfortable.

Anyway. Very off topic. But. Compared to Josh your handsome sulcata seems normal.

Again, I'm glad you're having him checked out. And I'm crossing fingers that everything is just fine.

And I should really be cleaning the house.


Thanks for the comforting words.
Glad Josh is doing better with her sweet little friend!

I only feed spring mix (no spinach) as well. I also feed mazuri twice a week and that's it for now.
All temps and basking are perfect.
I'm thinking at this point it may be the TNT, but not certain.

I'm glad that Nodder walks around a lot and is very active. He also eats great.
I hope his puffiness starts to subside.
Thanks again for your kind words. It's amazing how sad they can make you feel-poor little things!

---

Chances are the ascites would have an effect on normal functions, especially if his belly was full enough to be causing that kind of peripheral edema. Noticeable changes are encouraging and look like it is probably an allergic reaction as first thought, but if he doesn't normalize soon and you have to go back for another vet visit, a radiograph is where I would go next and bloodwork to check liver and kidney function...but I don't really think you will be going there.

Well, I stopped the TNT and will do calcium only 1-2 times per week.
After that...we'll see what is next to go!
Thanks for the help.

---

Sorry for the double post, but it took about 15 minutes for my post to show.
I wanted to add that in some pics he looks really puffy and when he moves a bit it looks a lot less.

---

I have to say, it feels very strange not soaking him everyday. I think he misses it-I know I do.

---

Thanks for the comforting words.
Glad Josh is doing better with her sweet little friend!

I only feed spring mix (no spinach) as well. I also feed mazuri twice a week and that's it for now.
All temps and basking are perfect.
I'm thinking at this point it may be the TNT, but not certain.

I'm glad that Nodder walks around a lot and is very active. He also eats great.
I hope his puffiness starts to subside.
Thanks again for your kind words. It's amazing how sad they can make you feel-poor little things!

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---

---