Sally vet

[biochemnerd808]

Actually, if you read my very detailed reply above, you will see that I specifically addressed the foods you mentioned. I'll write it again.
The grocery greens (romaine and collards) are fine as part of a varied diet. There are other grocery store foods you can add, such as mustard greens, turnip greens, escarole, radicchio, etc.
The peas (and formerly fed beans) are way too high in protein and are not suitable. They will cause kidney issues. And btw, accelerated beak growth and a backwards sloping shell are symptoms of renal issues in RTs.
Corn is mostly starch, and gets metabolized to sugar. Not suitable. Will cause accelerated shell growth and fat deposits under the skin. Also can cause yeast to bloom in her gut, which can cause gas to build up, which can prevent breathing.
Apple is too high in sugar. A tiny itty bitty sliver once a month won't hurt, but why would one? There are much better treats, like succulents or a yummy flower.

 

[Diane771]

Nobody thinks you are a young thing who didn't do your research. You have made it very clear you are not this.
But even people who have reach the middle of their life (myself included) can make mistakes. Even Ed Pirog's outdated tortoise care book sold at PetSmart still says a tortoise needs at least 2ft x 4ft enclosure. You won't find even an outdated tortoise care book or care sheet on Google that states a 20gal tank is enough for an adult female RT.

Sally was very small when I got her six years ago,

 

[biochemnerd808]

Sally was very small when I got her six years ago,

She was adorable. Still shouldn't be in a 20 gal tank...
Are those hyacinth flowers in with her?

 

[Tom]

Sally was very small when I got her six years ago,

You are making so many mistakes and you get so indignant anytime someone comments over anything... I call BS. I think you are trolling.

If not, we could really help you learn something and take much better care fo your tortoise. We are not here to attack or insult you. We are here because we all love tortoises, and all of us have made these mistakes, and other mistakes too, in the past, and we'd like to help you and other people to NOT make those same mistakes.

Call your vet and ask how many semesters there were on tortoise care in vet school. The answer will be zero. Most vets know very little about tortoise care and will totally miss all the subtle signs that have been clearly pointed out in this thread by people who are trying to help you and your tortoise. Or... you can lash out for no good reason and continue insulting the people who are here to help your tortoise have a better life.

And no one said you feed your tortoise dog food. No one.

Finally, someone like Yvonne or Katie that have been caring for tortoises for decades know far more about tortoise care than 99.9% of vets. A vet would know more about surgery or prescribing medications, but not about the day to day care, and how to keep them healthy and thriving. I can't even imagine why you are so resistant to free help, but that is sad for your tortoise. Please reconsider.

 

[Diane771]

She was adorable. Still shouldn't be in a 20 gal tank...
Are those hyacinth flowers in with her?

No, she is loose now

You are making so many mistakes and you get so indignant anytime someone comments over anything... I call BS. I think you are trolling.

If not, we could really help you learn something and take much better care fo your tortoise. We are not here to attack or insult you. We are here because we all love tortoises, and all of us have made these mistakes, and other mistakes too, in the past, and we'd like to help you and other people to NOT make those same mistakes.

Call your vet and ask how many semesters there were on tortoise care in vet school. The answer will be zero. Most vets know very little about tortoise care and will totally miss all the subtle signs that have been clearly pointed out in this thread by people who are trying to help you and your tortoise. Or... you can lash out for no good reason and continue insulting the people who are here to help your tortoise have a better life.

And no one said you feed your tortoise dog food. No one.

Finally, someone like Yvonne or Katie that have been caring for tortoises for decades know far more about tortoise care than 99.9% of vets. A vet would know more about surgery or prescribing medications, but not about the day to day care, and how to keep them healthy and thriving. I can't even imagine why you are so resistant to free help, but that is sad for your tortoise. Please reconsider.

No, not trolling. My Sally is healthy & happy. If this forum is strictly for you to inform people about their tortoise and what you are doing wrong, I guess this is not what I thought the forum is all about

 

[Tom]

No, she is loose now

No, not trolling. My Sally is healthy & happy. If this forum is strictly for you to inform people about their tortoise and what you are doing wrong, I guess this is not what I thought the forum is all about

Diane, you are making some mistakes. You've been lucky so far, but these mistakes may cost your tortoise its life. If you wish to remain willfully ignorant, stubborn, and refuse help, then we all walk away with a shrug and a frown, and your tortoise eventually dies from your lack of understanding of what has already been pointed out. Your Sally is not healthy, and your vet couldn't tell if she was or wasn't by looking. The overgrown beak, the tiny enclosure, the free roaming, and the foods you are feeding all tell anyone with some tortoise experience what is coming your way. We've tried to help. You don't want to be helped. I've led you to water, its up to you if you want to drink.

 

[Diane771]

No, she is loose now

No, not trolling. My Sally is healthy & happy. If this forum is strictly for you to inform people about their tortoise and what you are doing wrong, I guess this is not what I thought the forum is all about

As far as my Vet goes he specializes in Reptiles. When you specialize in Reptiles there is more to study. Why would you say there are no semesters on that, maybe in Vet school practicing on basic pets, but reptiles are different and you have to know what to do and the difference. Not every Vet is qualified or will not take exotic animals such as tortoises, geckos...

 

[Diane771]

Diane, you are making some mistakes. You've been lucky so far, but these mistakes may cost your tortoise its life. If you wish to remain willfully ignorant, stubborn, and refuse help, then we all walk away with a shrug and a frown, and your tortoise eventually dies from your lack of understanding of what has already been pointed out. Your Sally is not healthy, and your vet couldn't tell if she was or wasn't by looking. The overgrown beak, the tiny enclosure, the free roaming, and the foods you are feeding all tell anyone with some tortoise experience what is coming your way. We've tried to help. You don't want to be helped. I've led you to water, its up to you if you want to drink.

I would take advice and see validity in it. But I will not take unrespectful criticism of what I do with Sally

 

[wellington]

No, she is loose now

No, not trolling. My Sally is healthy & happy. If this forum is strictly for you to inform people about their tortoise and what you are doing wrong, I guess this is not what I thought the forum is all about

Why wouldn't you welcome info about your tortoise well being? No, we are not here just to say oh how cute your tortoise is or to say great job, everything you are doing is just fabulous. That's what the FB group, the majority of them, is for. We are here to help people like you give the very best care possible so people can enjoy a healthy tortoise for a very long time. Why come here just to resist every piece of advice? To be so righteous when you don't even have nearly the experience as most of the members here is just ridiculous. At least be open minded to suggestions and how those suggestions can better your torts life. Is that how you would want people buying your puppies to act? Not listen to a word of advice from the breeder of those pups?
Even as rude to many members as you have been, everyone is still wanting to help for the sake of the tortoise. I just don't understand it at all!

 

[Toddrickfl1]

I would take advice and see validity in it. But I will not take unrespectful criticism of what I do with Sally

Not one person in this thread has criticized you though.

 

[wellington]

I would take advice and see validity in it. But I will not take unrespectful criticism of what I do with Sally

No one has been disrespectful to you, until after your disrespect to a moderator and a few other members!

 

[Diane771]

Why wouldn't you welcome info about your tortoise well being? No, we are not here just to say oh how cute your tortoise is or to say great job, everything you are doing is just fabulous. That's what the FB group, the majority of them, is for. We are here to help people like you give the very best care possible so people can enjoy a healthy tortoise for a very long time. Why come here just to resist every piece of advice? To be so righteous when you don't even have nearly the experience as most of the members here is just ridiculous. At least be open minded to suggestions and how those suggestions can better your torts life. Is that how you would want people buying your puppies to act? Not listen to a word of advice from the breeder of those pups?
Even as rude to many members as you have been, everyone is still wanting to help for the sake of the tortoise. I just don't understand it at all!

Well, I have been criticized without knowing my background or knowledge of Sally. Maybe you should be aware of the approaching members not so condescendingly to which I felt some were doing something wrong. I can take advice anytime but maybe some should look into their comments also. It works both ways I feel attacked and you feel it's advice. We both need to calm down and see where everyone involved are projecting in this forum. I get along with people I have over 30 yrs of different customer service jobs, the Last one was in logistics and before that a travel agent. taking advice from my bosses and co-workers. So maybe check on your approach to this. I would be willing to take advice when it is respectful.

 

[biochemnerd808]

No, she is loose now

No, not trolling. My Sally is healthy & happy. If this forum is strictly for you to inform people about their tortoise and what you are doing wrong, I guess this is not what I thought the forum is all about

Clarifying question: do you mean she freely roams your house or apartment now?
How do you keep her safe from your dogs?

This might be a valuable read: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/huge-intestinal-blockage-passed-by-rescued-redfoot-tortoise.81061/

If the pink flowers in the photo above are hyacinth flowers, which I'm almost certain they are, you are very lucky. Those are highly toxic, and could have killed her.

As @Tom stated earlier, this is a forum where people who love tortoises and are passionate about species-appropriate care come to educate themselves, to share information, to learn and improve our keeping methods. Everyone is welcome. Many tortoise lives have been saved. Sometimes experienced keepers will share valuable criticism, if a person is doing a lot wrong.
If you don't plan to follow advice, that is totally your choice - but you won't find sympathy for throwing a fit about it. When I first came onto this forum, several peoplr pointrd out things that I could do better to provide my tortoises a better and longer life than I was. It was hard to swallow my pride and change my keeping methods.
This is not the happy club of unicorns and rainbows where everybody gets a heart sticker for showing up. You can read all you want and not worry about anyone stepping on your toes. But as soon as you (or anyone) posts, that post is public and can and will be commented on.

 

[wellington]

Well, I have been criticized without knowing my background or knowledge of Sally. Maybe you should be aware of the approaching members not so condescendingly to which I felt some were doing something wrong. I can take advice anytime but maybe some should look into their comments also. It works both ways I feel attacked and you feel it's advice. We both need to calm down and see where everyone involved are projecting in this forum. I get along with people I have over 30 yrs of different customer service jobs, the Last one was in logistics and before that a travel agent. taking advice from my bosses and co-workers. So maybe check on your approach to this. I would be willing to take advice when it is respectful.

Can you actually point out where anyone was disrespectful to you, before you to them?
You are the only one seeing it. Many members have commented that there has been no disrespect to you.
Your not a newbie and should know the passion everyone speaks from. We don't attack, we try to educate and change the things we see that the long term tortoise owners have proven to be wrong.
Yes, let's all take a step back and take the advice in the manner it was given. Not attacking but helping.

 

[Diane771]

Clarifying question: do you mean she freely roams your house or apartment now?
How do you keep her safe from your dogs?

This might be a valuable read: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/huge-intestinal-blockage-passed-by-rescued-redfoot-tortoise.81061/

If the pink flowers in the photo above are hyacinth flowers, which I'm almost certain they are, you are very lucky. Those are highly toxic, and could have killed her.

As @Tom stated earlier, this is a forum where people who love tortoises and are passionate about species-appropriate care come to educate themselves, to share information, to learn and improve our keeping methods. Everyone is welcome. Many tortoise lives have been saved. Sometimes experienced keepers will share valuable criticism, if a person is doing a lot wrong.
If you don't plan to follow advice, that is totally your choice - but you won't find sympathy for throwing a fit about it. When I first came onto this forum, several peoplr pointrd out things that I could do better to provide my tortoises a better and longer life than I was. It was hard to swallow my pride and change my keeping methods.
This is not the happy club of unicorns and rainbows where everybody gets a heart sticker for showing up. You can read all you want and not worry about anyone stepping on your toes. But as soon as you (or anyone) posts, that post is public and can and will be commented on.

Ok, no she didn't or never has eaten Hyacinth flower. She loved dandelions and leaves. No, she is not in danger of my dogs. As a breeder I totally know about giving advice I have over 45 yrs experience but I never came off as condescending I gave credible advice when needed. I am saying maybe the heavy-hand approach doesn't work for all and maybe more facts need to be inquired about the person and then advice given. Since I am totally aware that this is a site to be helpful to members I took it wrong and others may come off see it as seeming a bit scolded. I would never get a pet if I wasn't aware of what they eat, where they sleep, soaking, sunlight, and so on. The flowers were there only to give it color and see Sally better. I will seek advice on plants that might be poison and other issues

 

[Tom]

I would take advice and see validity in it. But I will not take unrespectful criticism of what I do with Sally

Semantics. In spite of your uncalled for outbursts toward some of our kindest, most diplomatic, and most respected members, we have all met your comments with tact and restraint. And we will continue to do so.

We are not your enemies. We simply see some problems, and want to help a fellow tortoise keeper sort it out. Nothing more. Our words are not an attack on your character or an insult to your intelligence. Nothing of the sort. Simply put, Russians shouldn't be fed fruit, a 20 gallon tank is way too small, free-roaming is dangerous and leads to disaster, and your tortoise has an overgrown beak which is usually due to the wrong diet and housing conditions. I have over 100 tortoises of different ages and species. Not one of them has a beak like that. In the past, when someone has given me a rescue tortoise with an overgrown beak, it self-corrects within a few weeks of living with me and eating the right foods. Your tortoises beak indicates a problem. Your vets failure to realize this, indicates a lack of competence.

 

[wellington]

Ok, no she didn't or never has eaten Hyacinth flower. She loved dandelions and leaves. No, she is not in danger of my dogs. As a breeder I totally know about giving advice I have over 45 yrs experience but I never came off as condescending I gave credible advice when needed. I am saying maybe the heavy-hand approach doesn't work for all and maybe more facts need to be inquired about the person and then advice given. Since I am totally aware that this is a site to be helpful to members I took it wrong and others may come off see it as seeming a bit scolded. I would never get a pet if I wasn't aware of what they eat, where they sleep, soaking, sunlight, and so on. The flowers were there only to give it color and see Sally better. I will seek advice on plants that might be poison and other issues

Now if you were talking about me then I could agree, sometimes I come off in a way some don't like. I am not one to see something wrong and just say oh how cute and then hope they come back and ask the right question. I point things out when I see them and personally the animal well being is more important to me then hurt feelings. I too was a dog breeder, showed, vet assistant, groomer, kennel manager, etc. If a person didn't like the way of my instruction for the care of one of my pups, they didn't get one. When an animals well being is at stake, I can't just blow smoke and ignore it. Some can, some can't. But the right way isn't also to blow off the advice as if you know it all or that your vet knows it all. We have seen to many torts get hurt or worse by so called reptile vets.
On this thread though, I still don't see where anything was stated in a way you see it.

 

[Diane771]

Now if you were talking about me then I could agree, sometimes I come off in a way some don't like. I am not one to see something wrong and just say oh how cute and then hope they come back and ask the right question. I point things out when I see them and personally the animal well being is more important to me then hurt feelings. I too was a dog breeder, showed, vet assistant, groomer, kennel manager, etc. If a person didn't like the way of my instruction for the care of one of my pups, they didn't get one. When an animals well being is at stake, I can't just blow smoke and ignore it. Some can, some can't. But the right way isn't also to blow off the advice as if you know it all or that your vet knows it all. We have seen to many torts get hurt or worse by so called reptile vets.
On this thread though, I still don't see where anything was stated in a way you see it.

Someone earlier was snooty about a semester in Vet School about Reptile and no courses taught. I then said there are special courses you take to become an exotic or specialist in reptiles. It seems like you ignore the comments that are aimed at me with some attitude I am not like this at all, but I don't need comments about dog food, vet school I do fight back over that

 

[wellington]

Someone earlier was snooty about a semester in Vet School about Reptile and no courses taught. I then said there are special courses you take to become an exotic or specialist in reptiles. It seems like you ignore the comments that are aimed at me with some attitude I am not like this at all, but I don't need comments about dog food, vet school I do fight back over that

I did see that post but I don't see it being snooty at all. Its fact. The dog food part, she never said it the way you took it. You wouldn't believe though how many will feed dog food. At least in the past, not sure if it happens much any more, except for those torts/torts that need protein. Then your first post of this thread was right to shoving it up whoever you were referring too.
Let's put this behind us. You got all the correct info you need to better the life of your tort. You can take it or not.
Hopefully going forward you will realize no one is here to attack, belittle or anything else. They are here to better the lives of the tortoises they own or others own and to learn more and to have fun.