Olive the Northern Ibera Greek

[Mluxo91]

Hello all!

My name is Maura, and my husband and I just adopted a Northern Ibera Greek baby who we named Olive. Olive came home this past Wednesday and seems to be settling in well.

Olive is currently living in a plastic tub that we just put inside the 5' x 2 1/2' tortoise table that he or she will grow into later. We also have plans to expand the table when Olive is big enough. Our light set up is on a pulley system to be lifted out of the way; the lid can also be lifted up by pulleys. We are also growing some tortoise food inside for Olive - spider plant, prayer plant, Boston Fern, broadleaf plantain, hosta, clover, and dandelion.

I can't thank the knowledgeable folks on this forum for helping us do the research over the last 6 months or so, especially the folks who have written such extensive care sheets. I hope we're on the right track.

Here are a few photos of our enclosure and of Olive.

 

[OliveW]

Great choice of names.

She's adorable! 😘

 

[wellington]

Nice size enclosure. However, it really should be a closed chamber. High humidity is needed and more accurate gauges than those you are using. They aren't accurate at all. Get a digital kind at any hardware store or home depot type stores.

 

[wellington]

Thread 'The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...ise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

 

[Sarah2020]

Cute name and looks a nice active tort. Please read this care sheet and check, light, heat, substrate, diet, water, soaks etc....

 

[TammyJ]

The closed chamber type of enclosure is what is needed for any hatchling tortoise because the humid, warm conditions created by a properly set up closed chamber are exactly the conditions these babies grow up in in their wild state, and if they are not found under damp leaves and rocks etc., it is because they are seeking such a place and can't wait to get to it.

 

[Mluxo91]

Nice size enclosure. However, it really should be a closed chamber. High humidity is needed and more accurate gauges than those you are using. They aren't accurate at all. Get a digital kind at any hardware store or home depot type stores.

I do still have some confusion about the closed chamber concept. I've read about creating a full-closed chamber set up (vivarium style?) (Tom's care guide I believe) as well as using the tub but only closing it overnight with it's lid to trap humidity in (Chris's care guide from Garden State). Could you link an appropriate humidity gauge (gauge or probe for soil moisture?)?

Here is my previous post about these questions if it's more appropriate to continue there. 🙂

Thread 'Humidity - Northern Ibera Greek Baby' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/humidity-northern-ibera-greek-baby.200407/

 

[wellington]

Unless it's the angle there seems to be some slight pyramiding started. If you get a good temp/humidity gauge it may show your humidity is not high enough.

temperature and humidity gauge - Google Search

 

[Mluxo91]

Here are a few more shots of Olive. Can you tell the beginnings of pyramiding that young? I e only had Olive for less than a week.

 

[Sarah2020]

All I see is a cute hungry tort eating, I do not see pyramids! There is a bit of light coulou around the scutes and that is growth. As mentioned read care sheet and you want smooth shell so ensure humidity and soaks for hydration.

 

[MotherofDragons]

I do still have some confusion about the closed chamber concept. I've read about creating a full-closed chamber set up (vivarium style?) (Tom's care guide I believe) as well as using the tub but only closing it overnight with it's lid to trap humidity in (Chris's care guide from Garden State).

You do NOT need a closed chamber for this species. I have not seen even one of the breeders who actually breed Testudo graeca ibera use them. Most actively advocate against them, and all have written their own care guides indicating an open top tub or outdoors is what they recommend (including Garden State Tortoise, Tortoise Supply, Tort Stork, & Arizona Tortoise Compound for starters).

It is understandable to be confused as there is more than one way to raise tortoises and you have been linked one Care sheet popular here, but you clearly were following another which was more suited to your species.

The fact is, the Tortoise Forum has members who do not agree with the caresheet linked above for Mediterranean species, while there are others who swear by it (but ask them if they actually raised Testudo species from hatchlings!! Most don't). This is the part where YOU as the keeper have to choose who to listen to, or which elements from which care sheets make sense to you and go with that.

I would personally follow the care guide written by the person who has bred and raised these for decades, Chris Leone. Also, I do not see ANY pyramiding on your tortoise, so don't let one person scare you.

I believe you were following this previously, but if not read this Caresheet. I would think very carefully before following opposing advice when it comes to Greek tortoises. I have used this to raise my 3 yearling Testudo graeca ibera. This careguide was not based off raising a handful of these tortoises, it was based off decades of experience with this particular species and raising who know how many hundreds of Greek babies this way.

Greek Tortoise Care Guide

The Greek Tortoise Care Guide (Testudo graeca ssp) Chris Leone HermanniHaven.com GardenStateTortoise.com theTurtleRoom.com THIS CARE-SHEET IS DETAILED FOR A REASON. READ IT THOROUGHLY BEFORE PROCEEDING WITH OBTAINING A TORTOISE. Moroccan tortoise (Testudo graeca marokkensis) Introduction...

tortoiseforum.org

If you are truly feeling confused now, please reach out to the breeder you acquired from and ask THEIR advice. Tortoise Supply is an excellent breeder that many here vouch for. Curious that they do not also vouch for their advice.

From the Tortoise Supply website on the Northern Ibera Greek page (and looks like every Greek page):

"We don't use the "closed chamber" method (keeping airflow very restricted to increase humidity to the point that clouds form in the enclosure). It is very risky if/when temperatures get below about 80, and mold, shell rot, and respiratory problems become a lot more common in those conditions. We keep them open top in the warm area, and enclosed, warm and humid within the hide (like they would be in the wild). They are free to choose the conditions, temperatures, and humidity levels they want within that setup. "

 

[MotherofDragons]

Here are a few more shots of Olive. Can you tell the beginnings of pyramiding that young? I e only had Olive for less than a week. View attachment 349100View attachment 349101

Your tortoise is perfect and has no pyramiding at all.

 

[Mluxo91]

If you are truly feeling confused now, please reach out to the breeder you acquired from and ask THEIR advice. Tortoise Supply is an excellent breeder that many here vouch for. Curious that they do not also vouch for their advice.

From the Tortoise Supply website on the Northern Ibera Greek page (and looks like every Greek page):

"We don't use the "closed chamber" method (keeping airflow very restricted to increase humidity to the point that clouds form in the enclosure). It is very risky if/when temperatures get below about 80, and mold, shell rot, and respiratory problems become a lot more common in those conditions. We keep them open top in the warm area, and enclosed, warm and humid within the hide (like they would be in the wild). They are free to choose the conditions, temperatures, and humidity levels they want within that setup. "

Tyler at Tortoise Supply was incredibly helpful in making sure I had what I think should be an adequate setup that adjustments can be made to if needed. We emailed back and forth quite a bit while I was setting up/dry running the temps/humidity. I do trust the thermometer more than the hygrometer on the little ZooMed combo gauges. I think I will get a digital thermometer/hygrometer combo just for peace of mind. I've found the infrared temp gun I have to be inconsistent to the gauges.

Thanks for the advice! It's hard to know for sure what you're doing right. I'm trying to take in as much info as I can and make informed decisions.

 

[MotherofDragons]

Tyler at Tortoise Supply was incredibly helpful in making sure I had what I think should be an adequate setup that adjustments can be made to if needed. We emailed back and forth quite a bit while I was setting up/dry running the temps/humidity. I do trust the thermometer more than the hygrometer on the little ZooMed combo gauges. I think I will get a digital thermometer/hygrometer combo just for peace of mind. I've found the infrared temp gun I have to be inconsistent to the gauges.

Thanks for the advice! It's hard to know for sure what you're doing right. I'm trying to take in as much info as I can and make informed decisions.

Sounds like you mainly just have to trust and watch them grow now!! I know it can be nerve-racking. I do think a better quality hygrometer/thermometer would be helpful. The one pictured is notoriously unreliable.

The good news is that the T. g. ibera can handle a wide range of temps and humidity, even as babies- which is unique to them versus many other species, or even subspecies of Greeks. Still, they shouldn't be allowed to dry out. You could plant a few things in the enclosure to help provide more microclimates and natural hides for the tortoise too. Your lights will help the plants grow, and your baby will love to hide/eat off them. Plants can help create more moist microclimates in a few ways, like the water retained near the roots and also transpiration from the leaves (think how humans sweat, plants have their own version to cool off).

Here is my enclosure. The first picture you can see below the canopy of plants at Tortoise level. The second is the entire enclosure. Lots of microclimates here!

 

[ArmadilloPup]

What a cute tort. Your starting enclosure/room is wonderful!

I'm no expert, but I've always been firmly in the "closed chamber" camp. Originally out of necessity (forest torts), but I've noticed that my juvenile marginated (similar to a Greek) still prefers his original baby chamber much of the time. He has an entire utility room with several options, but he still dreams of tropical life, so whatever makes him happy! I've always been too cheap for terrariums, though. When raising babies, I used whatever is available to go over the top of enclosure (acrylic glass, bin lid, even foil). The CHE will do most of the work of keeping the top of the substrate dry and free of fungus. With higher humidity, you do need to dispose of substrate around feeding spots.

On the topic of plants - I have never had plants last long term around any tortoise for more than a few months. But soft fake plants can make good cover for indoor enclosures if you keep finding your beautiful bromeliads trampled to death!

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome!