Newbie questions - Wierd ones!

[johnhutch2000]

Hi Tortoise fans!

I'm pretty new to this but I'm not chump and so have been doing my homework and read a few books and alot of internet sites about tortoise keeping but I still have a few newbie questions that are probably going to sound stupid but I though I'd ask them here for some advice.

Background:
As of Sunday next week I will be getting a 1 year old Hermanns tortoise that I plan to keep in moderately large purpose built tortoise table that I have just completed building but have not "furnished" yet.
The lighting is 1x T8 strip light with a repti-glow (i think) UVB emiting tube.
and 1 x (forgotten the brand) 100w basking lamp to give him a heat spot.
I've built a gantry that is about 45cm high and suspended both from this with the strip light in the middle and the basking lamp at one end.

My questions are these:
1. What kind of timing should the lights be on? I have read 12 hours per day but should this be for example 10am to 10pm or like fish, have an off period in the middle of the day. Also what about staggered timing for each bulb, eg, one turns on an hour before the other then goes off before. I'm totally unsure of what I should do.

2. Second lighting related question, the heat lamp "clamp lamp" came with a dimmer to regulate the temperate, how do you know when this should be dimmed/ un-dimmed, surely if you put a thermometer directly underneath it will quickly heat up and give a much higher reading than what the tortoise will feel (maybe im wrong).

3. Again re. temperature, say the heat light turns off at 11pm and the hermanns has gone to his hide won't he get VERY cold in the intervening 12 hours or so. My room doesn't get too cold but sometimes I go to sleep hot with the window open and wake up feeling a bit nippy. If I fill his hide with shredded news paper (which is the plan) will this keep him happy enough over this period or should i do something else. Any Ideas?

4. My plan with regard to a layout in his indoor table is to have a stone on which to bask, and a sand/soil 50/50 substrate with a water dish half buried and a tray with a section of my lawn knifed out and put in with him to graise on. I also plan to have a semi-rocky area just to give some variation with pebbles and stones to climb on but not high enough to cause a fall hazard. Can anyone forsea a problem with any of this?

5. Im also planning on planting a few succulent plants in the substrate for him to nibble/destroy (we'll find out which) And I was wondering what people use for these, as others must have had similar ideas. My thoughts were currently an Aloe Vera plant from Greece that I have, (and don't mind getting eaten) and maybe a prickly pear type cactus. Please advise as I don't want to poison the poor thing, but equally it's not you're average dietry advice question.

Any help on any of these is ultra-much-appreciated!

Thanks - J

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi John:

to the forum!

I don't keep Hermann's tortoises, so I can't help you with your questions, just wanted to say that we're very glad you've joined our forum family.

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

My lights are on from 8 to 8...no newspaper for your guy. Welcome to the forum...use eco earth and sand. If you want extra humidity in his hide use moss. But newspapers are a bad idea...

 

[Yvonne G]

And...I found nothing "wierd" about your questions!

Yvonne

 

[johnhutch2000]

Hi Yvonne, thanks for the welcome I just figured they werent the average questions people ask. Thanks for the advice Maggie, so no newspaper then? What would you use other than that, won't he just eat the moss and then be left with no bedding? Any advice on my other random points?
Thanks

 

[Yvonne G]

1. Maggie leaves her lights on 12 hours a day
2. Lay the thermometer on the floor directly under the CHE
3. Most folks use two clamp fixtures...one holds the UVB bulb for day time and the other holds the CHE or a black or red light for night time
4. Sounds good to me
5. Both good choices, also baby tears, or any succulent ground cover

They don't usually eat the moss.


Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Your substrate will be in the hide and that really is sufficient bedding. IMHO...

 

[tortoisenerd]

Welcome to the forum! Congrats on the new addition. We love pictures, so post away. Glad to have you here.

Make sure the lawn you put in the enclosure is free from pesticides and fertilizers for at least the last 3-6 months. The temperature at the substrate is slightly lower than at the tort's level. Keep that in mind, but also keep in mind they thermoregulate. As long as it is not too hot as to burn them (over 100 degrees), they will move around as they please. Provide a good temperature gradient per a care sheet...I'm not familiar with Hermann's, but I think it's about 70s-90s. You want a cooler area, middle areas, and a warmer area to bask in. The food and water should be in a moderate temperature area. Pictures are worth 1,000 words so if at all you can post them, please do. I will guarantee you will get some constructive criticism.

If you can at all return the lighting you have, I recommend a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB), of one of the following brands: Mega Ray, T-Rex Active UV, and Powersun. These are heat, UVB, and and light all in one. They are pricier, but one fixture, last 12 months (vs. 6 months like a UVB tube), and have almost as high of UVB output as the sun. UVB tubes have a very low comparative output. When I did the math, the prices in the U.S. came out ahead to buy the one bulb and fixture and replace the bulb yearly. You need to use a large and deep hood fixture with a ceramic socket attached to a lamp stand. The bulb face must be parallel to the ground. Just a thought if you have the option still!

With a temperature gradient, adjusted every so often if needed if the room temperature changes, you should not need ot use a dimmer. These cannot be used with MVBs, and are typically unnecessary with a good setup. A good timer is awesome though. If you need to have the bulb turned down or off, it is likely too strong. I like the MVBs because you can place them in the middle or to one side of an enclosure, and under the bulb is the basking area, the middle areas are where they spend a lot of time, and the coolest area is the room temperature. When you try to balance bulb, UVB tube, and maybe even a heat bulb it's more tricky to get the gradient.

Keep in mind with either set up you may still need some heat at night if your room temperature drops too low. Although you want a night time heat drop to the lowest temperature during the day or slightly lower, only so low is good before the tort is too cold. A ceramic heat emitter or black light bulb can boost the temperature up to 10-15 degrees above room temperature or so. Heat mats are not recommended. Do a search for lots of reasons why.

What is your room temperature during different times of the year? It is best to place enclosures away from outside house walls, and up off the floor to avoid drafts.

Best wishes!

 

[Stazz]

Thanks for some of the interesting info Kate !!!!

 

[johnhutch2000]

Thanks Kate and emysemys, the advice is great. Unfortunately I don't know if I can return my lighting unit as the bulb and unit were from different stores and can't get to the one of them any time soon. I think I'll just replace the bulb in maybe a years time (when it blows) with a MVB, but I already have a ceramic holder so no problems there.

I'll grab some moss out of the garden and put a bit in her hide, see if she likes it. I take it if she did eat moss it wouldnt hurt her?
I was wondering if there was a forum topic somewhere where i could post some pictures of a plant and they could maybe tell me if it is tortoise friendly? (ie won't hurt to eat). I know its a long shot but I am rubbish at identifying plants and so am a bit worried about some of the random things growing in my semi-neglected lawn.

I'll try and post some pictures of the tortoise table I've been building so people can see my dodgy craftmanship.

Thanks guys.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I think the kind of moss you have in your garden, and the kind of moss we are suggesting to put in his hide are 2 different types. I personally think that your substrate is enough with moss. Then you wet the substrate and that creates humidity...

 

[Yvonne G]

You probably don't have sphagnum moss in your flower beds. Here's a blurb on it:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ient=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

and here's what it looks like:

You can buy it at a nursery or at a home improvement store in the garden shop.

Yvonne

---

If you want to post a picture of some plants for identification, look in the "food and diet" forum, then there's a sub-forum entitled "plant identification."

http://tortoiseforum.org/forum-54.html

 

[tortoisenerd]

You can also do Google searches and there will be sites which have for example common garden weed pictures and names, same with landscaping. There are some differences between edible landscaping (things that are safe to eat) and plants that are liked by the tortoise. If you want the plant to stay in there for shade, then get something edible but likely not tasty. If you want the plant to be eaten, look at the food lists for plants that torts like (greens, lettuces, veggie leaves except for the nightshade family, flowers, weeds, etc). Make sure that everything is both safe to eat, and free from pesticides/fertilizers. Anything you buy from the store or garden center will have those unless they are marked Organic. Make sure the yard has not had anything added for at least 3-6 months. If you want to buy plants from a garden center, let them sit out of reach of the tort for 3-6 months.

The UVB tube will need to be replaced in 6 months. As soon as you turn them on they start degrading, and after 6 months typically they have so significantly decreased UVB output they aren't of much help.

Happy planning! Can't wait for pictures. Best wishes.

 

[Isa]

Welcome to the forum
I have a Hermann too, aren't they too cute
You can also consult those sites for the toxicity of certain plants
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/houseplants.htm
http://www.anapsid.org/mainplants.html

 

[johnhutch2000]

Wow guys, thanks for all the help and websites! This is the current state of the tortoise table, constructive criticism welcome. Bear in mind its missing the "garden area" and the plants that will have shallow pots in the substrate are not in place. Also there is more substrate to add and spread around. The Aloe Vera plant will be re-potted but is shown in the photo roughly where it will go. (and obviously the Bosch drill won't be a permanent fixture in the table


[attachment=2924
[attach]2925[/attach]

 

[Yvonne G]

Great job! I only have one thing that is worrisome to me: I think you need to remove the substrate (which should be mixed with dirt or coconut coir) and put down some plastic to help protect the wood. You want your substrate to be moist, and that will eventually get right through the varnish and start working on the wood.

I love the way you can open the roof of the hide. I love that it has straight sides so he can't climb up on it.

Nice Job!!

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

That is beautiful wood. But like Yvonne said you need to put something down to protect it. Also your substrate looks like it either has too much sand or is too dry. I'm having a hard time trying to see just exactly it wrong with it. You are going to need to keep the substrate moist and you'll do that by pouring water over it and mixing it all up, so add a shower curtain liner or some vinyl or something like that to protect the wood. While the hide is nice, it's not much of a hide, the tortoise will want to go into it and feel safe and 'hide' and sleep. So I think the doorway should be smaller and he should have a smaller darker place to sleep. I'll take a picture of my Hermanni Queenie's hide to show you what I mean.
Also I don't me to criticize your work, it's beautiful...

 

[johnhutch2000]

Thanks guys! I shall do just that, I'll take up the substrate and put down some liner first. I hadn't realised the substrate should be moist at all as I thought they needed to be kept quite dry (other than bathing) so their plastron doesn't develop rot, (or something that looks an awful lot like rot, from what I've seen). But shall be lead by youre advice and keep it relatively moist. The Sand is a 50/50 (ish) mix with top soil purchased bagged organic from a garden centre, the colour on the photos is quite different from reality as my phone camera is a little (understatement) bad with colours and contrasts. My room also isn't quite as violent blue colour either lol.
With regard to the hide my plan was to fill it to the height of the tort with some moss as of previous post advice, will this be enough do you think or should I also look at making the hide entrance smaller as you say Mags?
I'll modify it a bit on Saturday and post more pictures of the final draft.

 

[Isa]

Really Nice enclosure
I agree with Maggie for the entry of the hide, Hermy (my Hermann) always goes in the one with the doorway (There is more than 1 hide in his enclosure), I guess he feels really secures in it
I can't wait to see the final draft

 

[Maggie Cummings]

It is my experience with tortoises that they like small dark places to sleep. So my advice to you would be to close off the doorway to the hide somehow and make it smaller. The doorway smaller not the hide. I had the same type of problem for Queenie's hide and because I am one handed that makes it hard to hold a nail and a hammer this is what I ended up with for her hide...but she sleeps in it every night so I guess she likes it just fine...