New to sulcatas

[devobat]

Hello all! I was referred to Tortoise Forum by a few members over at Turtle Forum and I will sum up my issue as simply as possible.

I will be rescuing 2 juveniles less than 8 inches SCL on Sunday. The person I am rescuing them from no longer has the means to care for them and asked me to care for them.

I have always kept sliders and box turtles and don't really have much experience with tortoises at all. I know their diet is super important and I need some help.

I set up a wood box for one and a 100gallon rubber maid for the other(I live in a small apartment will be moving to a house in a few months with a back yard for them) I have my substrate ready and my lamps all set. I even managed to get a puppy pen to take them to the green belt just off my patio daily for a few hours of sunshine(for the both of us).

Since I don't have a yard to let them graze in and I am trying to supplement their diets by growing a grazing mix at home. Until the seeds come in and I can get it to grow, what do I feed them? I have left over Timothy hay from mixing in to their substrate and I know I can't do fruit or anything high protein. I am just confused as to what type of greens I can feed. I can find dandelions and hibiscus flowers no problem, I am just worried I will run out before the grazing mix is finished.

I live in Tempe Arizona and tried 2 tack and feed shops that don't stock any grasses other than Timothy hay and alfalfa. I am hoping someone would have some recommendations for me.

I really want to give these two little guys a healthy forever home. Even when the are gigantic and eating more than I care to think about right now. Any other advice would be welcomed. I am not sure what I just got myself into, but I am excited to welcome two new lovelies into my life.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Welcome to the group! Good luck and congrats on the new additions. Any guess on their sex? You should be planning to have two separate enclosures and hope you can have one. How big of a yard are you getting in the future?

If they will eat hay, Timothy Hay is great. Ask their current owner. Many will not eat hay at first so you need to slowly introduce it to them. Spring mix, endive, escarole, mustard greens, collard greens, etc, can work in a pinch, but of course the weeds are going to be better if you can do that. Look at the organic specialty markets to see what they have available and what they may be able to order for you. Make sure they only eat and graze on chemical free grasses/weeds/greens. Any kinds of typical grasses (some even light wheatgrass) should be fine I believe. I have only heard you want to stay away from Alfalfa as a staple. I have never heard of a public lawn not being full of pesticides and fertilizers to make it pretty. Dandelions and Hibiscus are great. The flowers you have to be especially careful with on the pesticides as if you buy them from a nursery they are not meant for human consumption. System pesticides are said to take 3-6 months to leech out after application.

I think a very important thing to know at this point is how they are currently being cared for--housing and diet especially. You may want to start with their current diet and then change it slowly. With a new home and new food, they could stop eating.

Best wishes.

 

[devobat]

Thank you for your fast reply. I am not sure what their current diet is so I will be trying anything and mixing it with Hay.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Devobat:

to the forum!!

Start out by feeding your new sulcatas what they are used to eating. You can tweak their diet slowly over time and make it better. Most every sulcata site, the folks will tell you to feed grasses and weeds.

After you find out what the tortoises are used to eating, you can start adding to that some Spring Mix. This is a packaged lettuce mixture containing the young leaves of many different kinds of greens. You can also pick some chemical-free clover, dandelion, etc. from outside.

You can buy Salad-Style Hay from either Carolinapetsupply.com or Oxbow.com and sprinkle a bit of that over the greens.

Glad to have another sulcata-keeper on the forum!

Yvonne

 

[mctlong]

Welcome Devobat! Here's a caresheet that helped me get started. It covers diet, eclosures, etc.


http://africantortoise.com/

 

[Isa]

Welcome to the forum

 

[K9KidsLove]

Hi...Welcome to the forum. I am a Sulcata owner as well. Aren't they just the handsomest tortoises?
Just wanted to add to the good info... Sulcatas usually love to dig, so you will need to bury your fence when you set up their outdoor pens. So far I haven't had any digging problems. I have Igloo brand dog houses in my corrals and they seem to have decided that they are a good substitute for a burrow. In cooler weather I put as many maple leaves as will fit in the houses for them to dig under. If it gets below 60, I put a black or red light in the houses. If it gets 50 or colder, I bring them inside at night & outside in the day if it is over 70.

I have planted my corrals with grass & weeds. Also, I grow a garden for my torts. I have collard & turnip greens, green & yellow & butternut squash,(I freeze some for the winter) endive, escarole, romaine lettuce, and mesculine lettuces. Last month I replanted squashes & cucumbers, but fed the leaves to the tortoises. They love them, as well as carrot tops. There is a good 'edible plants' thread on here.

Read as many sites on here as you can. There is soooo much good info.
You are going to love watching them grow.
Keep us informed with pictures. If you post a close up of their tail, someone can probably tell you if you have male or female.
Good luck & congrats on the new family members
Patsy

 

[devobat]

Thank you all for the kind welcome. I read some good ideas how to get them off their poor diet. One has pyramiding but hopefully with a no protein diet he can grow out of it.

They have not been interested in food. They have just been hiding. I am pretty sure its from the stress of being moved and a completely new enclosure. They only had a 1/4 inch of sand in a tiny aquarium and I gave them much more room to burrow and wander and be tortoises. When should I start being concerned that they aren't interested in food?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

They are stressed from moving. They should start eating after they settle down. You might try feeding them whatever they were eating before...How are you keeping them? Not on sand I hope. You need to get them set up so humidity is a major factor in their habitat, that's what mostly prevents pyramiding...humidity, good food, UVB and lots of exercise...Those 4 things are completely necessary in preventing pyramiding...

 

[devobat]

I have a picture here.

The UVA/B light was off for the photo but I dropped a lot and bought another Mercury Vapor Bulb for them. They have Eco Earth(or whatever those bricks you soak and they expand) substrate mixed with hay and some larger shredded coconut husk. Its moist right now, and I will keep it moist once a week. The side of the area with the lights on it is about 95F and the other end is about 78F.

I am starting out with Lettuce because that is what they are were fed, then mixing it with small pieces of cut up hay in a baggie so the hay smells like lettuce, then slowly reducing the lettuce until its hay and dandelion greens and other healthy greens for them.

I have a puppy pen to let them roam around in as well thats almost 4 times the size of their enclosure. I am just waiting until it warms up a bit more.

So I think I can knock the pyramiding down. Thanks for the great advice. You folks are wonderful!

 

[tortoisenerd]

Hi there! With the MVBs, you need to have the bulb face parallel to the substrate for safety and bulb life. I recommend a lamp stand to clamp your current fixture to. Any plans to upgrade that enclosure? I know you plan to have a pen for them too, but my honest opinion is that they need something about at least 4 times that size for the majority of the time, increased as they grow (which for Sulcatas is fast!). You really don't have the space to add what cage furnishings they need, let alone space for them to roam.

You likely should re-moisten the substrate every 2-3 days, not every 7 days. Humidity is the key factor to prevent pyramiding. Great plan on the diet. Are you getting a yard of weeds going for them? You should not mix the hay in with the moist substrate as it will mold. A pile of hay on top of moist substrate, replaced often, can work though. My tort loves to hide in it and strangely prefers that to any log/box hide. I recommend more hides, so each tort can have one in each temperature area (so, at least 4 of them, 2 each in the warmer and cooler areas). Hides can be anything from half logs to boxes, fake plants, hay piles, etc. The fake plants can also break up the line of sight so the enclosure seems larger. Do they have a water dish to soak in inside of the enclosure? A slate tile works great for feeding and helps with the nails and beak. Can they get outside full time soon? What are your plans?

Looking good! Best wishes.

 

[devobat]

No no this is a temporary enclosure just to get them out of the super tiny area they had before. I do have a bunch of tubs growing tortoise grazing mix for them they should be ready in the next few weeks. I will also move the MVB onto some wood so it rests above the tub instead of in it, and add a few more hiding spots. Just added a water dish for them to soak in.

They will be going outside full time when I move into a house at the end of December. Its got a large yard with concrete walls. I was planning on using an igloo dog house for them to go into. I am just hoping this is a warm winter like Arizona normally has. Below 60F they will be inside with me. I will also heat the dog house somehow. I will have to read up. Once I have a yard though, I know I can provide everything they need.

 

[devobat]

Thank you all so much for your advice. Well I took them to the vet and I knew they weren't in the best shape. They both have Metabolic Bone Disease. They have both stopped eating and I am trying very hard to get them to eat anything so I can get some calcium into their system. My vet said one may not make it and the other has a better chance of recovering. I am just so heart broken that they were neglected so badly for so long.

My vet also said to forget about proper diet right now and just get them to eat. So is their anything that your sulcatas just adore?? I have tried melon, squash, hibiscus, cherry tomatoes, kale, dandelion, turnip mustard collard greens, spring mix, tortoise diet pellets mushed up, straw berries, romaine and much more. Nothing seems to interest them.

I have been taking them out into the sun every day for an hour or two.

I hope I can just get them to eat and feel better. I hate seeing them suffer so much.

Thank you all again, this forum is wonderful.

 

[Meg90]

Are you leaving food in there with them? Sometimes they are just too shy to eat in front of you. Radicchio is great for torts. All mine REALLY go for it. Also, red, orange or yellow bell peppers are usually winners.

I would turn their log hide though, I am not sure they can get into it when its sideways like that.

Try not to mess with them as much as possible. I think the interaction is a stressor at this point. Once they settle in and start eating, you will be find to interact them.

 

[TortieGal]

Have you tried Mazuri, everybody's tortoise's seem to just love it, and it has a lot of vitamins. Check out the food and diet section here there's a lot to read on Mazuri. You can order it from Cory at [email protected]

 

[devobat]

Are you leaving food in there with them? Sometimes they are just too shy to eat in front of you. Radicchio is great for torts. All mine REALLY go for it. Also, red, orange or yellow bell peppers are usually winners.

I would turn their log hide though, I am not sure they can get into it when its sideways like that.

Try not to mess with them as much as possible. I think the interaction is a stressor at this point. Once they settle in and start eating, you will be find to interact them.

I leave their food in there for a long time. Until I don't think its safe for them to eat the food anymore. I also leave the room as well. Their hide was sideways for the photo.

I will start just leaving them be as much as possible. I can understand how stressed and scared they are by me.

I hae some Mazuri on the way.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Were they eating before you took them in? How many days has it been now? Are they pooping? They may be feeling too stressed to eat. Could you at least put them each in their own container to give them more space and some privacy (then they would each have a hide instead of sharing the one)? I would just leave food in there at all times, a little bit of everything, and change it twice a day. If you see they eat something, put more in of that thing. They need a hide right next to the food so they feel safe eating. They also need a hide right near the basking spot (which should be 95) so they feel safe to bask, which they must do to eat (their bodies must warm up to the high 80s for them to even think about eating). What are the enclosure temperatures? If you have an updated enclosure picture that would be helpful.

Did the vet think they were in dire shape from the MBD or something else? Any parasites? If you are dusting the food you are putting out with calcium, you may want to skip that until they are eating as that can be off putting. On the odd chance they want cuttlebone, you can leave some in there.

Glad you got an MVB on them and some sun and hope you can get them calcium soon. Was there anything the vet could do to administer calcium?

Best wishes.

 

[devobat]

Their enclosure has changed a lot since then, they are in a large 6 foot long xmas tree tub with hides all over the place some in basking some in shade etc. They are now being fed separately, leaving the food out all day and then I change it so they always have access to food. I am not dusting with normal calcium supplement, the vet told me I could use fruit flavored tums because the flavor would entice them to eat and it is pure calcium carbonate.

Their temps are 95 in basking, around 76.

They weren't eating very much before I took them in, but they have been pooping like champs since I took them in. Yes they both had parasites(they luckily both pooped while at the vet), but my vet wanted me to get them eating before he treated them for the parasites or the medication wouldn't be affective.

I called him asking how I could administer calcium if they weren't eating much and he said I could mix the crushed up Tums with unflavored pedalyte and soak them like that twice a week. I soaked them really well this morning and got them a whole buffet of food.

I left them in separate tubs to munch for a few hours and they both finally had a serious meal. I am glad that they ate a good meal and maybe with some luck they will keep up with this appetite.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I sure don't understand why he said a fruit flavored anything would attract a Sulcata...they don't eat fruit. There isn't much fruit grown where the would have access to it in the wild. What did the previous keeper tell you they eat? I am glad they ate for you so if they keep eating normally like that you've gotten them over another hump in their care...good job!!!

 

[devobat]

I found out that they were fed mainly lettuce and fruit previously. So fruity tums might taste better than the Calcium supplements from a pet store.