MVB light

[Patty P]

Hi everyone,
I joined over a month ago but I am posting here since I am still a newbie and I have not gotten my Hermann's tortoise yet. The hatchling will be arriving the second week of Oct.
My concern is the powersun mercury vapor lamp in the mini deep dome fixture. I have it positioned over one end of the plastic enclosure (2 ft by 1.5ft). The area underneath the lamp heats up to over 100 degrees even when I position the lamp two feet up overhead! Many of you use this source of heat/UVB. What am I doing wrong? Is it because the bulb is brand new? Should I be using a different heat/UVB source for a hatchling?
Patty

 

[JoesMum]

Your enclosure is very small. It's very difficult to control temperature in something that size. It really isn't big enough for what you need.

Can you post a picture of the setup as it will give us a better idea of what's going on.

Are you using a temperature gun type thermometer? It's the only way to accurately measure temperatures in specific spots like directly under the basking lamp.

If you haven't already, I recommend that you read the following:

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Hermann's Care
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/

And if you're planning on getting a hatchling, read this too
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

 

[wellington]

Besides the enclosure is too small, you should be using the larger dome fixture, not the mini. The minimum for a hatchling should be at least a 2x3 or 4 feet.

 

[Patty P]

I bought a 2x3 large Home Depot cement container but was advised to go smaller for the first few months. (I am emailing with Chris Leone and getting information from him as I am buying a Hermann's from him)

I had the larger deep dome initially and that made the temps even higher so I tried the mini dome but the temp is still too high. BYW I am using a 100 watt powersun bulb. Now I have the light setup over the larger 2x3 home depot mixing cement container and the temp is still reading 100! Could the cheap ZooMed thermometer be misreading?

Here is a picture of the smaller container with the mini dome. I emptied out all the substrate to see if that made a difference. That mini dome has a clamp which I will NOT be using for baby tortoise. (I borrowed it from the hermit crabs enclosure). I am using ZooMed thermometers but I will purchase a temp gun now!

Thank you all for your links and advice. I truly appreciate it! I want the enclosure to be just right for Tilly the newbie Tort!

 

[Speedy-1]

I never used more than a 75 watt UV bulb myself. If 100 watts is too hot , and raising it higher defeats the purpose , the only logical answer is a lower wattage bulb ! I only buy at pet shops if it cant be found elsewhere , I believe I found the 75 watt UV bulb at walmart for about $ 7.95 you could probably find something similar at Home Depot .

 

[Patty P]

Your enclosure is very small. It's very difficult to control temperature in something that size. It really isn't big enough for what you need.

Can you post a picture of the setup as it will give us a better idea of what's going on.

Are you using a temperature gun type thermometer? It's the only way to accurately measure temperatures in specific spots like directly under the basking lamp.

If you haven't already, I recommend that you read the following:

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Hermann's Care
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/

And if you're planning on getting a hatchling, read this too
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

Thanks Joe!
That last link was really helpful. Her advice for small enclosures is a basking lamp of 60 or 75 watts and a separate UVB tube! Once the hatchling is big enough for a larger enclosure, then the powersun will be better! Many thanks!

 

[Patty P]

I never used more than a 75 watt UV bulb myself. If 100 watts is too hot , and raising it higher defeats the purpose , the only logical answer is a lower wattage bulb ! I only buy at pet shops if it cant be found elsewhere , I believe I found the 75 watt UV bulb at walmart for about $ 7.95 you could probably find something similar at Home Depot .

Thanks Speedy! So many people use the MVB that I figured it was a must have. I have just switched out bulbs to a 60 watt and the temp is around 90 degrees with the dome being about 13 inches over the substrate. I will purchase Reptisun UV bulb and hydrofarm thermostat later this week.

 

[leigti]

Thanks Speedy! So many people use the MVB that I figured it was a must have. I have just switched out bulbs to a 60 watt and the temp is around 90 degrees with the dome being about 13 inches over the substrate. I will purchase Reptisun UV bulb and hydrofarm thermostat later this week.

The mercury vapor bulb is different than the UV bulb at Walmart or Home Depot. They do not provide what you need. The mercury vapor bulb does.One thing you can get at the hardware store, or the local farm store, is the fixture for the mercury vapor bulb.
The 2 x 3 mixing tub will be fine, although you may want to find a way to cover it to help keep the heat and humidity in. Also, the higher the sides are the easier it is, you could use plexiglass or even plywood to make high sides or you can make a frame and then cover it with a clear shower curtain. There are lots of ways to make it work. You don't need to go for 80% humidity with the Hermans tortoise. 50 to 70% would probably be fine but The person you're getting your tortoise from can give you specifics and there is a cure sheet.
A temperature gun is going to give you a much better accurate reading. And the wider fixture will spread the heat out a little bit more. You could also do a long fluorescent UVB bulb and a regular lightbulb for heat. You just have to find what works for you.

 

[leigti]

It will not hurt to have your 100 W mercury vapor bulb 13 or 14 or even 15 inches above your tortoise. It will still get enough UVB. You do want to make sure that you do not put glass or plexiglass between the bulb and the tortoise though, it will block the UVB.

 

[Tom]

A few things:
1. You'll only need a thermostat if you are running some sort of night heat. Like a CHE. Usually these are not necessary for Testudo, but I will defer to Chris's recommendation here.
2. MVBs do tend to run hot. I can't use them in my closed chambers because they over heat the whole thing. I run 65 watt flood bulbs for basking. MVBS should not be run in any sort of deep dome. They need to be run in wide domes with a ceramic fixture on the end. I use the 10.5 inch domes from Home Depot.
3. I would lower your current bulb just a little more to get the basking temp closer to 95-100.
4. If you get a Reptisun, be sure to get the long tube type, not a coil type. Get the 10.0 and mount it no more than 10-12" above the tortoise. If you need to mount it higher than that, you might be better off with a HO type bulb. With the right bulb mounted at the right height, you can run the UV tube on the same timer as your basking bulb.

 

[Patty P]

The mercury vapor bulb is different than the UV bulb at Walmart or Home Depot. They do not provide what you need. The mercury vapor bulb does.One thing you can get at the hardware store, or the local farm store, is the fixture for the mercury vapor bulb.View attachment 187260View attachment 187261View attachment 187262
The 2 x 3 mixing tub will be fine, although you may want to find a way to cover it to help keep the heat and humidity in. Also, the higher the sides are the easier it is, you could use plexiglass or even plywood to make high sides or you can make a frame and then cover it with a clear shower curtain. There are lots of ways to make it work. You don't need to go for 80% humidity with the Hermans tortoise. 50 to 70% would probably be fine but The person you're getting your tortoise from can give you specifics and there is a cure sheet.
A temperature gun is going to give you a much better accurate reading. And the wider fixture will spread the heat out a little bit more. You could also do a long fluorescent UVB bulb and a regular lightbulb for heat. You just have to find what works for you.

Thanks for the pictures. I like that temperature gun.

 

[leigti]

I am getting a hatchling soon, a Russian. Similar to Herman's as far as care. I am using a 40 gallon breeder tank that is 3' x 18". So it's a little smaller than your mixing tub but close. All the lighting information is confusing, you just have to research it all and decide what works for you. I am doing lighting differently for this hatchling than I do for the adult. And different species require different things. So you just have to muddle through all the information.

 

[Patty P]

A few things:
1. You'll only need a thermostat if you are running some sort of night heat. Like a CHE. Usually these are not necessary for Testudo, but I will defer to Chris's recommendation here.
2. MVBs do tend to run hot. I can't use them in my closed chambers because they over heat the whole thing. I run 65 watt flood bulbs for basking. MVBS should not be run in any sort of deep dome. They need to be run in wide domes with a ceramic fixture on the end. I use the 10.5 inch domes from Home Depot.
3. I would lower your current bulb just a little more to get the basking temp closer to 95-100.
4. If you get a Reptisun, be sure to get the long tube type, not a coil type. Get the 10.0 and mount it no more than 10-12" above the tortoise. If you need to mount it higher than that, you might be better off with a HO type bulb. With the right bulb mounted at the right height, you can run the UV tube on the same timer as your basking bulb.

Tom,
You are correct about no CHE for Testudos! Chris was very firm about that.
I think I will stay away from the MVBs for now. I will use the 60 or 75 watt bulb for now and the long tube Reptisun. What is an HO bulb?

 

[Patty P]

Also, many people say they cover their rubbermaid containers for Hermanns at night. Does that mean all the way or part of the way? Are holes punched into the lid?

 

[Patty P]

I am getting a hatchling soon, a Russian. Similar to Herman's as far as care. I am using a 40 gallon breeder tank that is 3' x 18". So it's a little smaller than your mixing tub but close. All the lighting information is confusing, you just have to research it all and decide what works for you. I am doing lighting differently for this hatchling than I do for the adult. And different species require different things. So you just have to muddle through all the information.

Thanks Leigti! I have only experience with aquatic turtles and those I got as juveniles or adult turtles. I have never had a hatchling before (or a tortoise) so I am nervous about overheating or underheating the baby!

 

[Tom]

What is an HO bulb?

"Regular" florescent UV tubes don't put out al the much UV. They have a type that is relatively new to the market called "HO" for high output. They use different fixtures than regular tubes. These make a lot more UV and are much stronger. You have to be careful with UV bulbs. If you mount a "regular bulb too far away (usually more than about 10 or 12"), they are ineffective and your tortoise could begin to suffer from MBD if they go too loo long without adequate UV. On the other hand, if you mount the HO bulbs too close or run them too much, you can damage the tortoises eye or skin, much like too much sun exposure. The best policy is to use a UV meter to check the efficacy of YOUR UV bulbs in YOUR enclosure. This will also tell you when they need replacement instead of wasting money on new bulbs every six months when they might still be perfectly fine. This meter is the one to get: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html

Go to this website to talk about and order the best UV set up for your individual enclosure:
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com

 

[leigti]

Also, many people say they cover their rubbermaid containers for Hermanns at night. Does that mean all the way or part of the way? Are holes punched into the lid?

It may depend on how cold your house gets at night. They might be trying to trap some heat in there overnight. The gauge that measures humidity and temperature that I showed you earlier, the square one, also shows you what the readings have been highest and lowest for the last 24 hours. Then you would know how cold and humid your enclosure gets at night. It's a handy little feature actually.

 

[Patty P]

It may depend on how cold your house gets at night. They might be trying to trap some heat in there overnight. The gauge that measures humidity and temperature that I showed you earlier, the square one, also shows you what the readings have been highest and lowest for the last 24 hours. Then you would know how cold and humid your enclosure gets at night. It's a handy little feature actually.View attachment 187277

I like this! Is Acu Rite the name of the product or the company?

 

[leigti]

I like this! Is Acu Rite the name of the product or the company?

Yes. I got it on Amazon but I'm sure you can find it in stores. I think it was around $10. Well worth it.

 

[Patty P]

Yes. I got it on Amazon but I'm sure you can find it in stores. I think it was around $10. Well worth it.

I am buying one tonight! Thank you so very much!