Mirror mirror on the wall...

Sleppo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
403
Location (City and/or State)
Philadelphia, PA
Don't want to be a joy kill but that mirror may cause some stress to your tort if they think it is another tort in their territory.
 

Jasminemmm

Active Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2020
Messages
71
Location (City and/or State)
Schaumburg, IL
Don't want to be a joy kill but that mirror may cause some stress to your tort if they think it is another tort in their territory.
Hi Sleppo, that is exactly my attempt, is to let it think that there is another tort next to it. This is a hatching. Tort hatchings grow up together in a group in the wild. They eat together and sleep together. A lot of torts that grow up alone in an enclosure actually develop behavior issues and are impossible to be around with other torts when they become adult. Those torts sometimes will chase after a human's foot and bite on shoes, just because that is the only thing they are familiar with when they grow up and they think that foot/shoes are one of their kind. The best solution is to have a group of three torts but a group of three require a lot more spaces and there is a risk that all three are males... I can't have more than one tort, so having a mirror in his enclosure to let him recognize his own species is the only thing I can do for it.
 

Sleppo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
403
Location (City and/or State)
Philadelphia, PA
Hi Sleppo, that is exactly my attempt, is to let it think that there is another tort next to it. This is a hatching. Tort hatchings grow up together in a group in the wild. They eat together and sleep together. A lot of torts that grow up alone in an enclosure actually develop behavior issues and are impossible to be around with other torts when they become adult. Those torts sometimes will chase after a human's foot and bite on shoes, just because that is the only thing they are familiar with when they grow up and they think that foot/shoes are one of their kind. The best solution is to have a group of three torts but a group of three require a lot more spaces and there is a risk that all three are males... I can't have more than one tort, so having a mirror in his enclosure to let him recognize his own species is the only thing I can do for it.

I'll have to disagree with you there. They are solitary creatures, once hatched in the wild they eventually go there own way. In captivity keepers can house groups of hatchlings and you can even keep groups of adults as long as they have a massive amount of space with hiding spots etc. There is also a proper ratio of males and females that must be adhered to. The "behavior" problems you mention with the shoe chasing is a sign of territorial aggression meaning the tortoise wants the shoe out of its space. The sleeping together and eating together are all subtle signs of aggression, its a way for them to bully each other for resources. These are all natural instincts not behavior problems that you can correct. The fact that your mirror is right next to its food source would lead me to believe that this tort will/could be stressed now or eventually thinking another tort is taking its food. Good luck with your hatchling.
 

Jasminemmm

Active Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2020
Messages
71
Location (City and/or State)
Schaumburg, IL
I'll have to disagree with you there. They are solitary creatures, once hatched in the wild they eventually go there own way. In captivity keepers can house groups of hatchlings and you can even keep groups of adults as long as they have a massive amount of space with hiding spots etc. There is also a proper ratio of males and females that must be adhered to. The "behavior" problems you mention with the shoe chasing is a sign of territorial aggression meaning the tortoise wants the shoe out of its space. The sleeping together and eating together are all subtle signs of aggression, its a way for them to bully each other for resources. These are all natural instincts not behavior problems that you can correct. The fact that your mirror is right next to its food source would lead me to believe that this tort will/could be stressed now or eventually thinking another tort is taking its food. Good luck with your hatchling.
Here is a quote from book "Naturalistic Keeping and breeding of Hermann's tortoise". (this is so far the best Hermann's tortoise book on the market that you can get).

"Adult Hermann's Tortoises are certainly no animals that live in packs or herds. Therefore they do not live in the wild in classical groups. but much rather in a solitary manner in small, overlapping "territories" alongside each other. They are no solitary animals in the sense of hermits, but rather exist in a loose society of co-existing neighbors. The term "solitary" that is often misinterpreted as "animals that encounter conspecifics only rarely and find each other only during the mating season". This is NOT at all the case in original, intact habitats, however. Even though adult Hermann's Tortoises do not need each other's company for protection or joint hunting, they still maintain loose contact with each other and know their neighbors. While "solitary" to some extent, Hermann's Tortoises in fact need encounters with their own kind... "

This is a great book. I think we all have something to learn.
 

Jasminemmm

Active Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2020
Messages
71
Location (City and/or State)
Schaumburg, IL
I'll have to disagree with you there. They are solitary creatures, once hatched in the wild they eventually go there own way. In captivity keepers can house groups of hatchlings and you can even keep groups of adults as long as they have a massive amount of space with hiding spots etc. There is also a proper ratio of males and females that must be adhered to. The "behavior" problems you mention with the shoe chasing is a sign of territorial aggression meaning the tortoise wants the shoe out of its space. The sleeping together and eating together are all subtle signs of aggression, its a way for them to bully each other for resources. These are all natural instincts not behavior problems that you can correct. The fact that your mirror is right next to its food source would lead me to believe that this tort will/could be stressed now or eventually thinking another tort is taking its food. Good luck with your hatchling.

one more quote,

" In contract to adult tortoise, hatchings and juveniles obviously need close contact with their siblings and conspecifics. They seek this contact and can often be found sitting in small groups hidden in the thick of the plant natter covering the ground, beneath rocks, pieces of wood, or other objects and move about only within a very confined range. it is during this period that they receive an imprint of the scent of their conspecifics, enabling them later in life to recognize specimens of their own species on the basis of general appearance, movement, scent, and eventually also through courtship rituals....."

BTW, currently the baby can only consume 1/3 or 1/4 of the food that I supply every day... I don't think it is stressed for any food competition...
 

Sleppo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2018
Messages
403
Location (City and/or State)
Philadelphia, PA
one more quote,

" In contract to adult tortoise, hatchings and juveniles obviously need close contact with their siblings and conspecifics. They seek this contact and can often be found sitting in small groups hidden in the thick of the plant natter covering the ground, beneath rocks, pieces of wood, or other objects and move about only within a very confined range. it is during this period that they receive an imprint of the scent of their conspecifics, enabling them later in life to recognize specimens of their own species on the basis of general appearance, movement, scent, and eventually also through courtship rituals....."

BTW, currently the baby can only consume 1/3 or 1/4 of the food that I supply every day... I don't think it is stressed for any food competition...


Sounds like you've got it all figured out, good luck.
 

pcrealty

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
101
Location (City and/or State)
Wynnewood
Here is a quote from book "Naturalistic Keeping and breeding of Hermann's tortoise". (this is so far the best Hermann's tortoise book on the market that you can get).

"Adult Hermann's Tortoises are certainly no animals that live in packs or herds. Therefore they do not live in the wild in classical groups. but much rather in a solitary manner in small, overlapping "territories" alongside each other. They are no solitary animals in the sense of hermits, but rather exist in a loose society of co-existing neighbors. The term "solitary" that is often misinterpreted as "animals that encounter conspecifics only rarely and find each other only during the mating season". This is NOT at all the case in original, intact habitats, however. Even though adult Hermann's Tortoises do not need each other's company for protection or joint hunting, they still maintain loose contact with each other and know their neighbors. While "solitary" to some extent, Hermann's Tortoises in fact need encounters with their own kind... "

This is a great book. I think we all have something to learn.
Agreed as a last resort, instead of artificial contact like the mirror or tortoise toy which are biologically scentless. coordinating your tortoise to be with a real (healthy) tortoise is recommended. As per my observation when our two tortoise first united, it was endless sniffing and following of each other. In addition, the older tortoise was nipping the second tortoise's (baby hatchling) shell and leg. Presently, the older tortoise leads the walk in the living room and the second tortoise follows endlessly until exhausted. We separate our tortoises because of their instinctual / territorial rights to food and mating partners. At a point they can ram each other or flip each other upside down. Male tortoises continuous mating can cause injury to the female tortoises.
 
TortoiseSupply.com

New Posts

Top