Just ordered 2 Hermann's... looking for help

[glenfletcher]

Hi guys! Nice to meet you all

So today I finally gave in and treated myself to 2 1yr old Hermann's tortoises, they'll be with me on Tuesday. I've checked and they'll have the CITES certificate (or whatever it's called) with them so I'm happy that they're legit on that front - but before they arrive I'd just like a bit of advice if that's ok...

Firstly, am I ok to keep them in a day/night temperature regulated vivarium? As I'm from the UK, it's very very hard to keep an open table temperature regulated and I don't want to risk them getting poorly. Some people have said yes and some have said no.

Also, is a standard topsoil + a bit of sand mix ok for the floor? I know they like to burrow but I don't want to risk upsetting them.

And finally what food would be ideal for them? I've seen a few conflicting reports (it's all very confusing, some sites are saying yes to one thing and no to another, then you go to a different site and they say the opposite, I don't know what to think)

I've done a lot of research (hours and hours worth) but I'm still confused, it's a lot more complicated than it first appears, and I want to get it right, I want the little dudes to be happy

I have ordered all my kit from www.tortoisecentre.co.uk - is this a reputable site?

 

[glenfletcher]

After looking around I'm beginning to panic and I'm really considering cancelling my order here... everything they told me seems to be wrong! They flat out told me that "people who say you can't keep them in vivariums are talking rubbish and just want you to buy an expensive table", so I went ahead with it... I think I'm going to call first thing tomorrow and cancel. The torts themselves were about half the price of anywhere else as well...

I don't want to screw this up (partly because I love them and also because they aren't cheap) so I don't want to jeopardize them in any way.

Could any experts please look at www.thetortoiseshop.com - from what I can see they look pretty good but I really don't want to risk it.

 

[egyptiandan]

Welcome to the forum

Where in the UK are you? If you buy straight from a breeder, than prices are usually 100 to 125 pounds for a hatchling Hermanns (sometimes less). If your a bit handy, you can build yourself a table fairly cheaply. Lights will be the most costly thing (other than the tortoise).

Danny

 

[glenfletcher]

Hi Dan

I'm in Derbyshire so pretty much central. Luckily I have the week off work so it's an ideal time to get it all set up properly (I don't have any other plans).

Not too great with DIY but I saw something about keeping them in a plastic under bed crate type thing on a temporary basis until I get something set up for sure, would that be acceptable? My dad's fairly handy with a bit of wood so I might see if he can help with it.

Any advice on where to get lights from and what would be ideal for the little chaps? I don't know if I'm just dumb but it's all pretty confusing to me right now.

I'm liking thetortoiseshop website I linked above. Their info seems to correlate with all the advice given on the tortoise charity websites, which is promising. Little bit pricey but I don't mind that too much, as long as they're good quality.

Have sent Wilton Pets (Tortoise Centre) an email saying I want to cancel my order and that I'll ring tomorrow to confirm... hoping it all goes smoothly on that front... can't imagine them being too happy.

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes the plastic storage container is just fine for temporary enclosure.
Here's the bulb you need (go for the 100watt) http://www.shelledwarriorsshop.co.uk/mercury-vapour---heat--uvb-in-one-53-c.asp
and the holder http://www.shelledwarriorsshop.co.uk/zoo-med-clamp-lamp-22cm-8-557-p.asp
It's an excellent shop (visit the forum too ) and they have plenty of other bits too.

Danny

 

[glenfletcher]

Thanks Danny!

So am I right in thinking this lamp would provide both heat & UV rays for the torts? (Sorry totally new at this and like I said I want to make sure they have everything they need).

I already have some soil/sand, a couple of logs and things for fun, 2 little dishes (food and water) and a little house for them to live in... if I get a lamp like the one above, do I need anything else? (Apart from food, obviously)

Glen

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes the bulb will provide heat and UVB rays, so you don't need another light (but a regular flourscent light for some added light is just fine).

You will also need a calcium supplement with vitamin D3 and some plain calcium. Go for the Nutrabol for the calcium with D3 and limestone flour (food grade) for the plain calcium.

Danny

 

[glenfletcher]

Excellent, you've been a lot of help - thankyou!

I'm thinking I might go with the tortoise shop website... they provide guarantees from death from illness and provide the right certification. I know it's impatient, but unless I get it set up this week then I won't realistically be able to get it all set up properly until July.

They do seem to match the information you give on here and other tortoise trust sites - also no heat mats, vivariums etc. Would be appreciated if you could take 30 seconds just to advise me on whether you think this site is trustworthy or not... like I said it's a lot of money and I want to do it right, can't believe I came so close to getting it so wrong...

Glen

 

[egyptiandan]

That I can't tell you. Ask for pictures of the hatchlings they have and pick one out. Make sure they send that one. When you get the little one, check that the eyes are open and bright, the nose is dry and the little one does feel like air when picked up.
It would be a good idea to pick up a good digital scale (one that measures in 1g or less intervals). This way you can keep track of the little ones weight as it grows.

Danny

 

[alfiethetortoise]

Hello. Been a bit lax on the forum lately... anyways hope this isn't too late...

I ordered Alfie from the tortoise centre. She arrived bright eyes with no problems. She was however, a little on the light side. She has since been fed up a bit and is doing well, growing at a good rate etc. The box came in good time.

Alfie is in a vivarium, as i like to keep the temperatures nice and warm and this is the best way to regulate. Some people dont like vivariums because if you dont know what you are doing you can overheat your tortoise and also if you leave the glass doors closed all of the time, there is ventilation but it isn't much. I have the heat lamp on a timer switch, and its a 50w infa red exo terra. The UVB i have is repti glow 10.0. The tortosie centre will send you a repti glow 5.0 - which isn't really strong enough for a young tortoise. Either ask them to change it for a 10 or use it untill you can get hold of one from somewhere else. Some people prefer to have one light which is fine. But with two lights it means the heat can come off a while if needed and the backlight is still on. And in winter here it gets dark at about 5pm so it means Alfie can have the lights on a good few more hours.

Keeping tortoises in Vivariums Its a bit of a debatable topic here on the forum . And it's worth remembering that most the people live i California, Florida, or other US states where the weather is warmer. And if you have pets or small children your tortoise table will need to have a lid.

If you go for the vivarium you will likely want to have a summer house so that your tortoise can go outside when the weather is good. You could make one yourself with wood and chickenwire, or you can buy one ready made (the tortoise centre do one i think). You don't need to worry about lights if the temperature is above 20. Alfie hasen't been outside at all yet.

Some of the advice they gave was a little missleading if you dont know about tortoises. For example, i used the heat mat over winter at night on a back wall to keep temperatures from dropping too low. If you use them like this, and not on all the time under the soil/sand it will be fine.

I hope you manage to sort it out!

 

[glenfletcher]

Brooke, thanks for the reply... however I'm really not sure what to do now!

The vivarium with the sliding glass doors looked the better option - I was planning on leaving the doors open a lot anyway, and I can always remove (or cut a hole in) the top of the vivarium if needed, can't I. It is just a box with a glass front, after all.

I think I'm going to stick with them. It's good to hear another English person's perspective. Tortoise tables look good but with English winters (and even English summers), I'm not sure if a tortoise table & lamp would work... they really would just get horrendously cold being out in the open.

I do have a summer house (or will do), to let them run wild and free in, in the summer. They won't be in the viv all year long

I guess if the vivarium isn't working I can just pop them in a temporary enclosure until I have a table ready for them?

I'm going to give him a call and ask for pics and ask him where they get the torts from, I think.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

I believe they breed the tortoises themselves. Alfie came with all the correct paperwork. You will probably want to have the licenced changed over to your name eventually when your tortoise has been microchipped and is over 100mm - there is a fee involved off hand i think its about £40.

The Vivariums are good quality, and you can remove one or both of the glass doors if you like for extra ventilation, at the moment i open one door after my toddler is in bed (she likes to think its free for all if the doors are open). The wood is quite thick, i think you would struggle to cut a hole in the wood but id say if your going to have the doors open a lot you wont really need to do that at all.

Alfie goes outside in summer, but she doesnt have a summer house yet. It's a bit of a working progress! I always bring her in overnight as i dont trust temperatures not to drop or a fox, badger or something to stumble accros her little house!

We have had a really bad winter here in the Lake District. Very cold, lots of snow, bad flooding, no gas for a week, and then the big freeze. Alfie has always been nice and warm in her vivarium all winter but i would have had trouble maintaining my living room to such a temperature.

Good luck!

 

[glenfletcher]

Brooke, thankyou so much, you've really put my mind at ease... and yes this year, Derbyshire was a bit nippy too!

Now I'm happy to continue with my order from the tortoise centre... I'm going to call them now and ask for a couple of pictures, I think.

You've been so much help, it really is appreciated.

---

Just spoke to him and he says they're imported from Macedonia but they've been checked over by vets and have full certs (and they've had them for a few months to make sure they're not ill)

Sounds like he knows what he's talking about, however no pictures available which is slightly worrying but oh well... we'll see about that in the morning!

EDIT: He also said that a 10.0 bulb would blind baby tortoises and that a 5.0 was best? I really have no clue which is right but thought you'd like to know.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

No worries. Glad to be of some help!

I'm now looking at alfie's certificate, and yes she is from Macedonia. The only issue i have had is she was a little underweight, but that was easily resolved. She has never been ill or had any other issues and has grown in length and weight well. I had her checked over by the village vet (who i dont think sees many tortoises) and she said she was fine. Some digital scales might be handy for weighing. I used to weigh every week, but now once every 2-3 weeks.

I used sand and soil as the substrate, and aspen bedding over the sand and soil in the hide. In fact, i'm still on my original pack of aspen bedding from them.

They do seem to know what they are talking about when you call. I wouldn't worry too much. The box arrived in good time.

And if you get a male, maybe one day we can set up our own tortoise empire!!!

 

[glenfletcher]

He does seem to know what he's talking about, yes. He's also very forceful on the phone which is quite intimidating if you don't know anything about the topic.

I might take them down to the vet this week to get them checked out, although like you say they won't know much about them and to be honest posting pics on here would probably get a more favourable result.

I have sand and soil already, the only thing I need now is food - where do you get yours from, Brooke?

 

[alfiethetortoise]

I use Komodo complete once or twice a week - dried tortoise food which you soak in warm water. Alfie loves it. I find if i dont give it the weight gain isn't as good. You can get this from Pets at home type places, i use a local shop near ish to me which specialises in reptiles to get myne otherwise you pay postage. There is another kind of dry food called Mazuri which is supposed to be better, but you can't get it in the UK.

Every day i feed spring mix (bags of salad, washed, and put onto the slate). Florette crispy salad, bistro salad seem to go down well. Asda do big bags - avoid iceburg, we have had a few different kinds, on a rocket salad mix at the moment. We go through about A big bag a week. Alfie also has rose petals from the garden, dandilions from the garden, the odd bit of apple, plum, straberries (really not more than once a week only one fruit). She doesn't really like carrot. Rarely i give a little cucumber. She has fresh food morning and late afternoon and is a bit of a glutton will eat the lot!

I also sprinkle neurobal onto her food 2-3 times a week. And bathe 2-3 times a week too.

 

[Kymiie]

Hey im from mansfield, not far from you!!

I also have a hermann!!

I built him a tort table for less than £25!
I had a hatchling and he died in a viv, so I built crush a table! As I also hear vivs were bad!

Food: Morrisons - pre packed baby leaf salad... thats best one!!!

Ill be happy to help if u need any, ive learned alot from this forum and others xx

 

[glenfletcher]

Well the little guys have arrived and (from what I can tell) seem happy enough, they've munched on a couple of lettuce leaves so far today and have been exploring their temporary storage bin (I'm going with a vivarium, but the glass doors will be left open a lot (or even removed)to keep the temperature regulated. I really don't think a tortoise table would work because of how cold it can get here.

Thanks for the advice about the salad, we've picked up a few pansies and a few seeds from the local flower shop today.

One concern I have though... one tortoise has been flying around, exploring everything, trying to climb out etc - the other one has pretty much just sat around by the warm spot (currently have an electric heater near one side of the box, it's the best I can do at the moment, but they're happy). It's literally just started moving a bit more so maybe I'm just panicking over nothing...

They look good though. Fully aware of their surroundings, have both already eaten, one of them's even had a wee so I know both ends are working with that guy

Now to decide on some names...

 

[alfiethetortoise]

Tortoises can have different temprements. I wouldn't worry too much if one is excitable and the other isn't. As long as they are eating thats the main thing!

You will need to get some UVB and a spot lamp ASAP! I'm sure you already know this but the tortoises need a basking spot and a good source of UVB.

Have you ordered the Vivarium?

Try and give them a soak in some warm water today if you get chance. An old ice cream tub or similar will do!

 

[RClaire]

Hi,
I own a hermanns too, shes very cute and ive only had her four months. It seems everything your doing is right, just make sure u get that basking lamp and lights which emit uvb. I'm still new to much of this myself but just wanted to let you know that tilly lives in a vivarium but i leave doors open to ventilate, you can also turn temps off for a little while during the day, such as an hour in order to prevent it being too heated in there. Mine goes off for an hour at mid day and again about four o'clok, this is a simple timer device which u plug into- very easy and they are only 2 pound from asda. I've just built an outdoor enclosure which cost 20 pound, but u can buy them for much more, i personally think its nice to build them how u want and you can also make them nice and big, as hermanns love space too. I want to move on to a tortoise table eventually but im still researching it and im not sure just now as i live in scotland, not the warmest, esp in the winter. However summers can be good but also bad so make sure if u build an outdoor enclosure its got some sort of shelter for them to escape windy or rainy conditions, in case freak wetaher hits when ur out at the shops. you never know!!
anyway i feed tilly a mixture of things such as mixed salads from supermarket and other plants from the garden, however there are poisonous ones so im still researching this also. if giving fruit such as toms or apple try to give this sparingly, as in once a week etc.
i hope everything goes well with these two lovely tortoises and keep us posted as to how they get on, send some pics if poss.