I need advice / help with my 10 month old hermann tortoise.

[Raquel1978]

Thank you so much,

yes I did soak him after for about 20 mins and he drank the water for about a min. Must have been thirsty

I found the substrate I am using currently (https://www.reptilia.org.uk/habistat-tortoise-bedding-10l-11911-p.asp)

Is this deffo not good for the tortoise and needs a change? I found this (https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/habistat-coir-substrate-5-10ltrs#coir-substrate-10-litres) but it looks like it will get very muddy and I got told to avoid that. Like on this forum sorry for the doubt still, I got advised he needs to have a dry environment. So yeah I am still rather lost thats all.

thank you tho, deffo helpful what you sent and told me !

I also bought and used that substrate on the advice of a pet shop and it caused irritation to her eyes she was forever scratching at her eyes..
I swapped to forest floor and she stopped rubbing her eyes almost immediately.
Once you get the right substrate it only really needs a proper clean out maybe once a year I do spot cleans where she's been toilet and dragged food around but it won't need a full clean out for a very long time..

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

A mix of limestone, sand and clay, especially dry, is a bad thing. When eaten it can cause impaction (for example, when food is dragged out of dish and munched). One may argue, that with fibrous foods and exercise will make sand pass through... Perhaps, yes (that's how it works in the wild). But vivarium and captive diet are different from nature, no need to take the risks.

Coco coir is a messy thing - pretty much like soil. Muddy or not - depends on how much water you put in it.

This one looks like a good option:

Swell Premium Orchid Bark Fine

Fine, woody substrate that is perfect for any rainforest setups Retains moisture and can be used to raise humidity Great for forest dwelling species and amphibians

www.reptiles.swelluk.com

Keeping tortoise dry is a bad advice. Desert and mediterranean tortoises are highly adapted to dry conditions, that's true. They can survive heat and draught but it's not ideal for them. Dehydration and dry conditions result in bladder stones, renal damage, pyramiding and other complications.

Please, keep asking. We'll try to explain every advice given, if necessary.

 

[Tom]

So what you are saying is these are the things I need to purchase
-
New Heat Lamp
New Substrate
Che bulb
Humidity Stat
-
Do you have recommendations? its a 4ft vivarium.
For ambient lighting however, the UVB stretches across the entire backside of the viv. Do I still need ambient lighting?

-You do not need a humidity stat.
-You can use the dimming thermostat you already have to control a CHE and keep ambient temps from ever dropping too low. It won't need to be set very high. I'd keep it at around 21-22 until the eye issues are resolved. The basking lamp will warm up the whole undclosre during the day when it is on.
-The UV tube you have isn't very strong. It is a T8 type bulb and those typically do not emit much UV. The T5 HO types are the best. I would't trust that bulb to be putting out adequate UV without putting a meter under it and checking it. Solarmeter 6.5 is the only one that works.
-Your UV tube should only be on for a few hours mid day, so yes, ambient lighting is still necessary. The indoor enclosure should be bright and "sunny" during the day.

 

[Kisobel]

-You do not need a humidity stat.
-You can use the dimming thermostat you already have to control a CHE and keep ambient temps from ever dropping too low. It won't need to be set very high. I'd keep it at around 21-22 until the eye issues are resolved. The basking lamp will warm up the whole undclosre during the day when it is on.
-The UV tube you have isn't very strong. It is a T8 type bulb and those typically do not emit much UV. The T5 HO types are the best. I would't trust that bulb to be putting out adequate UV without putting a meter under it and checking it. Solarmeter 6.5 is the only one that works.
-Your UV tube should only be on for a few hours mid day, so yes, ambient lighting is still necessary. The indoor enclosure should be bright and "sunny" during the day.

Okidoki I just ordered,

Swell Premium Orchid Bark Fine, (40L in total)

Basking Solar 100w Floodlight, (I know I got advised I can use a 75 but gonna take extra care as I know my room gets rather cold.

I need to purchase a CHE however can you explain how to correctly setup the heat lamp and the CHE. I been advised it needs a basking spot because little man can get cold, so how do I control it to make sure it doesn't get too hot? As I was using the dimming thermostat for it. Like how will the basking spot be controlled?

Deep Clean Reptile Disinfectant 500ml,

Sumatra Hanging Vine 23cm (decoration) Also could you recommend any additional decoration? or do I avoid adding decoration?

Lastly, my window is actually directly opposite / above the viv so its actually natural light and acts as day and night. Will I still need ambient lighting or will I be a ok with that. Also could you recommend any LED strips for the ambient lighting, thank you!

As soon as they arrive (monday) im going to do a nice deep clean for the little guy, fresh everything up for him. But you would 100% recommend me needing a CHE?

again apologises for all the questions.

 

[Tom]

Thank you so much,

yes I did soak him after for about 20 mins and he drank the water for about a min. Must have been thirsty

I found the substrate I am using currently (https://www.reptilia.org.uk/habistat-tortoise-bedding-10l-11911-p.asp)

Is this deffo not good for the tortoise and needs a change? I found this (https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/habistat-coir-substrate-5-10ltrs#coir-substrate-10-litres) but it looks like it will get very muddy and I got told to avoid that. Like on this forum sorry for the doubt still, I got advised he needs to have a dry environment. So yeah I am still rather lost thats all.

thank you tho, deffo helpful what you sent and told me !

The coco coir bedding is good. It is messy at times, but its great because they can burrow down into it and make their own little humid microclimates.

The trick is to keep it damp. Not wet, but not dry and dusty. How much water to add and how often varies with each enclosure, and with the same enclosure seasonally. You have to go by feel.

Use a thick 8-10 inch layer and firmly hand pack it down to 3-4 inches. These details make all the difference. Everyone says to use the coir, but no one explains these important details. Orchid bark or cypress mulch(the "first floor" that Raquel mentioned...) is easier to use, but I prefer coco coir for Testudo babies. I switch them on to orchid bark when they reach about 4 inches.

 

[Kisobel]

The coco coir bedding is good. It is messy at times, but its great because they can burrow down into it and make their own little humid microclimates.

The trick is to keep it damp. Not wet, but not dry and dusty. How much water to add and how often varies with each enclosure, and with the same enclosure seasonally. You have to go by feel.

Use a thick 8-10 inch layer and firmly hand pack it down to 3-4 inches. These details make all the difference. Everyone says to use the coir, but no one explains these important details. Orchid bark or cypress mulch(the "first floor" that Raquel mentioned...) is easier to use, but I prefer coco coir for Testudo babies. I switch them on to orchid bark when they reach about 4 inches.

do you think you could send a picture of a vivarium you have / had setup in the past please? would be appreciated!

 

[Tom]

I also bought and used that substrate on the advice of a pet shop and it caused irritation to her eyes she was forever scratching at her eyes..
I swapped to forest floor and she stopped rubbing her eyes almost immediately.
Once you get the right substrate it only really needs a proper clean out maybe once a year I do spot cleans where she's been toilet and dragged food around but it won't need a full clean out for a very long time..

I just want to say that you are full of great info in this thread! You've clearly been down this road before and learned your lessons well about the pitfalls of pet shop advice and products. I'm sure it is comforting and adds credibility for the OP to be hearing this from someone in their own country. Between you and Alex, I can just bow out of this thread, as the OP is in great hands.

 

[Tom]

Okidoki I just ordered,

Swell Premium Orchid Bark Fine, (40L in total)

Basking Solar 100w Floodlight, (I know I got advised I can use a 75 but gonna take extra care as I know my room gets rather cold.

I need to purchase a CHE however can you explain how to correctly setup the heat lamp and the CHE. I been advised it needs a basking spot because little man can get cold, so how do I control it to make sure it doesn't get too hot? As I was using the dimming thermostat for it. Like how will the basking spot be controlled?

Deep Clean Reptile Disinfectant 500ml,

Sumatra Hanging Vine 23cm (decoration) Also could you recommend any additional decoration? or do I avoid adding decoration?

Lastly, my window is actually directly opposite / above the viv so its actually natural light and acts as day and night. Will I still need ambient lighting or will I be a ok with that. Also could you recommend any LED strips for the ambient lighting, thank you!

As soon as they arrive (monday) im going to do a nice deep clean for the little guy, fresh everything up for him. But you would 100% recommend me needing a CHE?

again apologises for all the questions.

No apology necessary. We are on a tortoise forum to talk about tortoises! Your questions fuel the conversation, ad nothing makes a tortoise keeper happier than helping other tortoise keepers enjoy their tortoises more!

The dimming thermostat connects to the CHE, and THIS keeps the enclosure from getting too cold day and night.

The basking lamp only needs to warm things during the day, like the sun would outside. If 100 watts is still too hot, simply dial it down a little bit with a rheostat that is also plugged into your light timer.

Put your head in your vivarium and take it all in for a minute or two. Then immediately pull your head out and go stick it out that window on a sunny day. Which is brighter? A common problem/mistake is dimly lit indoor enclosures for tortoise species that would be out in the sunshine in the wild. Make it bright and "sunny" in there. Add that LED light. I get mine from Walmart or Home Depot. Get one with a color temp of around 5000-6000K. This info should be on the package.

 

[Tom]

do you think you could send a picture of a vivarium you have / had setup in the past please? would be appreciated!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Let's cover these two first:
* But you would 100% recommend me needing a CHE?
* I need to purchase a CHE however can you explain how to correctly setup the heat lamp and the CHE. I been advised it needs a basking spot because little man can get cold, so how do I control it to make sure it doesn't get too hot? As I was using the dimming thermostat for it. Like how will the basking spot be controlled

If there is a chance, that enclosure cools down below 21C at night - you will need CHE. Cold and damp enclosure is a sure recipe for respiratory infections (warm and humid is fine). Adult tortoise handles cold better, but you might need to keep him warm if he got sick or to prevent going to brumation (and that's why you might need ambient LED lights too).

You can use a dimming thermostat with CHE (I said before it can't be used, my bad, I was wrong). Basking bulb sits just on timer. Temperature in the basking zone is adjusted by moving lamp higher/lower or using higher/lower wattage bulb. Or you can get a simple lamp dimmer in a home goods store. Usually, you need to make changes for a cold/hot season.

 

[Kisobel]

Let's cover these two first:
* But you would 100% recommend me needing a CHE?
* I need to purchase a CHE however can you explain how to correctly setup the heat lamp and the CHE. I been advised it needs a basking spot because little man can get cold, so how do I control it to make sure it doesn't get too hot? As I was using the dimming thermostat for it. Like how will the basking spot be controlled

If there is a chance, that enclosure cools down below 21C at night - you will need CHE. Cold and damp enclosure is a sure recipe for respiratory infections (warm and humid is fine). Adult tortoise handles cold better, but you might need to keep him warm if he got sick or to prevent going to brumation (and that's why you might need ambient LED lights too).

You can use a dimming thermostat with CHE (I said before it can't be used, my bad, I was wrong). Basking bulb sits just on timer. Temperature in the basking zone is adjusted by moving lamp higher/lower or using higher/lower wattage bulb. Or you can get a simple lamp dimmer in a home goods store. Usually, you need to make changes for a cold/hot season.

okay I also purchased 2 timers,

One for the heat lamp, one for UV lamp.

I bought the CHE too, do you have a recommended temp I should be setting it at?

Is there recommended times I should be setting the UV lamp on / heat lamp on?

After I take him out the bath he tends to bask, so would this not be affecting that? or should I aim to have the light on from 8am - 2-3pm

need to make sure I get everything correct

 

[Tom]

okay I also purchased 2 timers,

One for the heat lamp, one for UV lamp.

I bought the CHE too, do you have a recommended temp I should be setting it at?

Is there recommended times I should be setting the UV lamp on / heat lamp on?

After I take him out the bath he tends to bask, so would this not be affecting that? or should I aim to have the light on from 8am - 2-3pm

need to make sure I get everything correct

Set the CHE thermostat to 22C, then put your digital thermometer in the far corners of your vivarium over night and see what it does. Adjust the thermostat up or down as needed to keep the temp around 21-22C.

I like the basking and ambient lights on around 6:30 am and off around 7 pm. This is not set in stone. You can do it however you like, but try to keep it around 12 hours, and its best if it somewhat matches the daylight hours outside, although we run the lights longer inside than the day length outside in winter. If you brumate next year, we can talk about what adjustments to make.

I run the UV tube for a few ours mid day. Maybe 11-2? 10-4 might be better with your T8 tube in your climate.

8am to 2 or 3pm is not long enough unless you are trying to make this guy brumate. 12 hours of daylight and it doesn't matter if the tortoise returns to bed before that. When you take an afternoon nap, do you not still know it is light outside? Their needs to be around 12 hours, or more, of daylight. Babies in the wild hide most of every day, but they still know it is day time.

 

[Kisobel]

Set the CHE thermostat to 22C, then put your digital thermometer in the far corners of your vivarium over night and see what it does. Adjust the thermostat up or down as needed to keep the temp around 21-22C.

I like the basking and ambient lights on around 6:30 am and off around 7 pm. This is not set in stone. You can do it however you like, but try to keep it around 12 hours, and its best if it somewhat matches the daylight hours outside, although we run the lights longer inside than the day length outside in winter. If you brumate next year, we can talk about what adjustments to make.

I run the UV tube for a few ours mid day. Maybe 11-2? 10-4 might be better with your T8 tube in your climate.

8am to 2 or 3pm is not long enough unless you are trying to make this guy brumate. 12 hours of daylight and it doesn't matter if the tortoise returns to bed before that. When you take an afternoon nap, do you not still know it is light outside? Their needs to be around 12 hours, or more, of daylight. Babies in the wild hide most of every day, but they still know it is day time.

So it is safe to leave the heat lamp on for that long tho?

I think mine is 150W at the moment and I just purchased a 100W one, im worried it may get too hot that's all. The one I bought is less concentrated in one area compare to the one I have now however.

That being said tho I have bought everything, cost about £100 in total so hopefully that should be all on equipment needed

 

[Tom]

So it is safe to leave the heat lamp on for that long tho?

I think mine is 150W at the moment and I just purchased a 100W one, im worried it may get too hot that's all. The one I bought is less concentrated in one area compare to the one I have now however.

That being said tho I have bought everything, cost about £100 in total so hopefully that should be all on equipment needed

Is it safe? Do you mean to ask if it will start a fire from over heating? In the correct fixture and mounted correctly, 12 hours is just as safe as 6 hours.

Or do you mean to ask if it is going to over heat the enclosure? If it overheats the whole enclosure, which is common with vivs, you will need a lower wattage bulb, or you will need to reduce the wattage going to that bulb with a rheostat.

 

[Kisobel]

Is it safe? Do you mean to ask if it will start a fire from over heating? In the correct fixture and mounted correctly, 12 hours is just as safe as 6 hours.

Or do you mean to ask if it is going to over heat the enclosure? If it overheats the whole enclosure, which is common with vivs, you will need a lower wattage bulb, or you will need to reduce the wattage going to that bulb with a rheostat.

Yeah originally I setup the temperature sensor thing I currently have for the heat lamp up wrong, and it very much over heated the ground. Seemed to burn his feet a bit. So yeah I hope the 100W is ok and I don't need to return and buy a new 75W one lol.

But thank you a lot, I will do all changes I can when I get then on Monday. Hopefully this recovers little hermy

 

[Kisobel]

Hello again,

So I have a few concerns if @Tom, @Alex and the Redfoot, @Raquel1978 may be able to help and answer or anyone whom stumbles upon this.

My order for the substrate and all other stuff has been moved on an extra day and I'm starting to worry. Hermans problems at the moment is he is very lethargic, the fact he only moves around his sleeping area to get comfy but doesn't move much at all during the day, just hides under his hut thingy.

Yes, in the morning he has his bath routine and he actually opens his eyes, I've been giving 30 min baths since the suggestion and it seems he has constipation of sorts, but the water has been helping him poop in it. After this I will put him next to his food, he will only eat 1-3 pellets before trying to walk away, I have been re placing him next to the food till he eats about 5-8 and then I just let him go. He just then takes a walk to his bed sleeping spot and stays there till the next day.

Additional thing however tho is he seems to click, he has squeaked a few times recently and it seems he has a bit of a cough as he wheezes air sometimes. I'm aware this is a resp infection I previously tried to get sorted with antibiotics however due to me not realizing I had the incorrect stuff in his viv, it probably didn't help.

And in the bath or literally anywhere recently, he always seems to be scratching at his eyes a lot.

Also an additional problem I've recently came across is that his inside mouth is looking very pale, when gently opening his mouth to have a look that's also when he seems to wheeze or cough too.

These issues (I believe) can be fixed with the purchases I made and am waiting for to be delivered, however there is a problem. This was firstly noted on Friday, I ordered on Friday too and the earliest delivery was Monday. It said they would deliver Monday too. However it appears they have decided to change this time to Tuesday instead.

I'm worried the fact that it may be taking too long and he could just be getting very very sickly. I also am aware that the pellets shouldn't be his main diet however its all I can get him to eat right now, I am going to try get him to eat more once I've resolved his viv problems.

Basically my questions are, do you think he will be ok for now whilst I wait for the stuff to arrive, what can I do to help make him a bit more active maybe? interact with him more or what?

I really do love this little guy and I'm trying my best here, but I really don't know what to do, I can't seem to make him eat much more or be any more awake.

 

[Tom]

Hello again,

So I have a few concerns if @Tom, @Alex and the Redfoot, @Raquel1978 may be able to help and answer or anyone whom stumbles upon this.

My order for the substrate and all other stuff has been moved on an extra day and I'm starting to worry. Hermans problems at the moment is he is very lethargic, the fact he only moves around his sleeping area to get comfy but doesn't move much at all during the day, just hides under his hut thingy.

Yes, in the morning he has his bath routine and he actually opens his eyes, I've been giving 30 min baths since the suggestion and it seems he has constipation of sorts, but the water has been helping him poop in it. After this I will put him next to his food, he will only eat 1-3 pellets before trying to walk away, I have been re placing him next to the food till he eats about 5-8 and then I just let him go. He just then takes a walk to his bed sleeping spot and stays there till the next day.

Additional thing however tho is he seems to click, he has squeaked a few times recently and it seems he has a bit of a cough as he wheezes air sometimes. I'm aware this is a resp infection I previously tried to get sorted with antibiotics however due to me not realizing I had the incorrect stuff in his viv, it probably didn't help.

And in the bath or literally anywhere recently, he always seems to be scratching at his eyes a lot.

Also an additional problem I've recently came across is that his inside mouth is looking very pale, when gently opening his mouth to have a look that's also when he seems to wheeze or cough too.

These issues (I believe) can be fixed with the purchases I made and am waiting for to be delivered, however there is a problem. This was firstly noted on Friday, I ordered on Friday too and the earliest delivery was Monday. It said they would deliver Monday too. However it appears they have decided to change this time to Tuesday instead.

I'm worried the fact that it may be taking too long and he could just be getting very very sickly. I also am aware that the pellets shouldn't be his main diet however its all I can get him to eat right now, I am going to try get him to eat more once I've resolved his viv problems.

Basically my questions are, do you think he will be ok for now whilst I wait for the stuff to arrive, what can I do to help make him a bit more active maybe? interact with him more or what?

I really do love this little guy and I'm trying my best here, but I really don't know what to do, I can't seem to make him eat much more or be any more awake.

Respiratory infections are typically caused by temps that are too low. The solution is to warm everything up a bit day and night.

Eye issues can have several causes. Here are a few:
-Overly dry dusty substrate.
-Low humidity.
-Incorrect bulbs.
-Wrong type of UV bulbs.
-Strong UV tubes mounted too close to the tortoise.
-Illness or disease.

You can go back and read through this thread and try to eliminate each of these, or make improvement where needed.

 

[Kisobel]

Respiratory infections are typically caused by temps that are too low. The solution is to warm everything up a bit day and night.

Eye issues can have several causes. Here are a few:
-Overly dry dusty substrate.
-Low humidity.
-Incorrect bulbs.
-Wrong type of UV bulbs.
-Strong UV tubes mounted too close to the tortoise.
-Illness or disease.

You can go back and read through this thread and try to eliminate each of these, or make improvement where needed.

My stuff comes tomorrow, should I be worried about the wait or just take every day as it comes.
there isn't much I can do to heat up the viv at the moment before the stuff comes.

 

[Tom]

My stuff comes tomorrow, should I be worried about the wait or just take every day as it comes.
there isn't much I can do to heat up the viv at the moment before the stuff comes.

Put the enclosure in a bath room and run a space heater with the door closed. Put large bottles of hot water in the enclosure and replace as needed.

 

[Kisobel]

Hello!

Just a nice little update for everyone and specifically @Tom, @Alex and the Redfoot, @Raquel1978 , I managed to setup the new viv!!

I need a new water dish, I know to get a flat one to prevent him from drowning, I will put his food on the slate most likely, need to get him off pellets.

6:45 am - The ambient lighting (LED Strips, yes it's rated correctly and has the correct light) and the basking lamp comes on. It switches off at 7:15 pm.

The UV lamp comes on at 10am - 4:30 pm.

The promising this is he actually had a few laps, had his eyes wide open, wasn't catching at them what he normally does and he actually can burrow correctly under his little hut thingy.

Here are some photos below, so hopefully the new setup is better for him to recover in!
(p.s. I know I need to move the heat sensor it was just to temp monitor)