I need advice / help with my 10 month old hermann tortoise.

[Kisobel]

Hello there,

I'm new to this forum and actually got told to avoid it from the pet shop however im in need and I'm here to ask for some advice and just overall knowledge / advice on my Hermann tortoise.

I bought them (I refer to them as a he for easiness) from a PetShop about a month and a bit ago, originally when I got him everything he done I presumed was normal tortoise behavior, he weighed 50 grams too and is about 10 months old to 1 year old the guy wasn't specific but the tortoise is rather small.
From me being obsessed over him, watching him for hours on days I cannot exactly remember but he seemed to explore his enclosure when I first put him in it, I presume so he got used to a new environment. Everything in his vivarium is optimal, I went to a reptile specialist vets and they verified.

After first getting him I picked up that he occasionally had a few bubbles come from his nose and it seems like he sneezes of sorts. He is always rubbing his right eye and he eventually stopped opening that eye for a bit. He was originally on a greens based diet, but it lacked variety so I found out that was incorrect. When I first picked up on symptoms I felt like something was wrong so I watched him over the days and he became less and less active. I live in england so there is a chance the cold weather doesn't help but the viv temp should fix that tho. After a few days of originally picking up on his symptoms he became very ill to the point he didn't move from under his log, refused food etc. I took him to a non specialist vets first and he got an injection originally and that seemed to somewhat help, he was also and still is on a "complete diet pellet" food where you add water to it and its very good for the tortoise I have been told + ace high vitamin powder + calcium powder.

He somewhat recovered but didn't open his right eye still so after a week I took him to the experts on it.

He was on a 2 week antibiotic plan, give 0.5 of antibiotics to him every 2 days, along side with eye drops. He is at the point where he is off the plan, I was supposed to go to the vets for a checkup 3 days ago but cannot for another 4 days.

The problem is or not problem, is that he seems to just go under his log and nap / sleep there all day. He seems to eat one day but the next day he either eats very very little or not at all. When I am not in the house he may go for the occasional wonder but I'm not too sure as I am not always there, but when people see him he is always asleep. So recently I've been waking him up and then letting him out on my floor, when he is out he is quite fast and can walk for about 30 mins constantly but he always seems to try and burrow into the side of things. His eyes are both open what's positive and he has a nice walk around what then means he has a poo but occasionally a wee. The only problem lies is that he always seems to be napping. On the 25th when I get paid I think im going to clean out his entire vivarium, new stuff just to hope the freshness will be better for him.

He has a morning routine where,
7am - 9am I will wake up and wake him up, pick him up and put him in the bath to soak up.
Usually he drinks the water there but mostly just sits there or tries to get out after 5 mins. I have only seen him poop twice in the bath.

After this I put him back in the viv under the basking spot to warm up and dry off and then I prepare the pellets food. After 5 mins or so if he hasn't already wondered over to the food, ill place him nexto it showing that there is food there and he will eat some. Its a bowl of sorts but its not on a flat surface so it seems he kinda struggles to eat a bit so I tried to add more substrate around the bowl so he is more up so he doesn't struggle as much. He will eat, tend to crawl into the bowl, eat what he can see from the point he is and then walk away leaving most of the food but then he seems just uninterested in the food.

After this for the rest of the day he seems to just nap or hide under his log, he will move a little bit but its usually just different positions under his log till he hides in the corner then I know he is a sleep.

Later in the day though I try wake him up and let him out to wonder around the floor with supervision.
I have been giving it a thought and he may need to hibernate but honestly I have no idea how to do this or how to do it safe or when they do this etc etc. Additionally worried that because of me taking him out and bathing him, trying to make him alright has actually made it worse.

Me explaining all of this is, does this sound normal or not? I seriously do not know what my tortoise should be doing day to day. I got told to avoid tortoise forums as people rip into you for any single thing you may slightly be doing wrong but its my first time, I love the little guy and just want to know if he seems alright.
Here is all info if anyone is curious,
-
1. Food He is on - Komodo Complete Holistic Tortoise Diet, Dandelion (https://amzn.eu/d/fsUlvRH)
-
2. Vivarium Temperatures - Hot side I try get 30-32 degrees, Cool side is about 22 - 25 degrees. This is controlled with my heat lamp / bulb being connected to a temperature sensor to auto adjust (come on / come off / dim to get to correct temp). In the very corners it sometimes reads about 29-30 and he seems to prefer sleeping at these temperatures
-
3. Baskin Spot Temperatures - This is quite higher I do not have an exact reading but due to my room being cold and to make the hot side hot, it reads to about 50 degrees or so, yes I make sure the ground isn't too hot and seems just warm and nice and he seems happy when under it.
-
Below I will provide photos.

 

[Raquel1978]

Hi, I can't give you any advice as such as I'm a complete novice myself.
I do tho have a little 7month old Herman's who weighs 66g so 50g seems a little small if the age they gave you is actually correct.
Maybe that's due to your little one having been ill.
If you check out the tortoise table it will give a great range of different types of food as maybe a more varied diet is needed also.
My little ones routine is she's awake by 9 every morning then she has a soak every morning in warm water for 30mins then she has her breakfast.
I find a flat slate much easier for her to eat off as mine was also struggling with the bowl type dish.
Then she will bask for abit and have a good old stroll around her house and she will graze on her food on and off all day until about 4 when she will put herself to bed in her house.
I'll leave the people with experience ask about the lighting etc as I made alot of mistakes at the start and with the advice and reading the forums made the adjustments and my little one is doing great.
Hopefully someone with alot more experience will be along soon to help you out with the more technical advice..

 

[Kisobel]

Hi, I can't give you any advice as such as I'm a complete novice myself.
I do tho have a little 7month old Herman's who weighs 66g so 50g seems a little small if the age they gave you is actually correct.
Maybe that's due to your little one having been ill.
If you check out the tortoise table it will give a great range of different types of food as maybe a more varied diet is needed also.
My little ones routine is she's awake by 9 every morning then she has a soak every morning in warm water for 30mins then she has her breakfast.
I find a flat slate much easier for her to eat off as mine was also struggling with the bowl type dish.
Then she will bask for abit and have a good old stroll around her house and she will graze on her food on and off all day until about 4 when she will put herself to bed in her house.
I'll leave the people with experience ask about the lighting etc as I made alot of mistakes at the start and with the advice and reading the forums made the adjustments and my little one is doing great.
Hopefully someone with alot more experience will be along soon to help you out with the more technical advice..

Hi, nice to hear your tortoise is doing well!
Every egg batch as a "runt" I presume and I think thats herman. (its what I called my hermann tortoise very original I know).
I will try my best to keep him in good health etc, but I wish to see him having a normal routine, at the moment I bath him for about 5 mins because the water seems to get cold, do you fefresh the water or how do you keep the water warm enough?
After the bath he will munch a bit but then just go to bed and sleep for the rest of the day what I presume isn't ideal. But when I let him out he is quite fast and walks for like 30 mins what would be the opposite of lethargic symptoms so yeah I am a little bit lost on why he is acting the way he is.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
While hatchlings hide a lot, what you describe doesn't seem to be a normal behaviour. If has been prescribed antibiotics and had symptoms of a respiratory infection, that usually means that something was off with his husbandry before you've got him or when you've got him. Often the reason is the wrong temperatures.

1. What are temperatures in the viv at night, when the heat lamp is off?
2. Can you tell exact models of lamps you use? Looks like you have two - basking and UVB, but maybe I've missed something from the photos.

Few things I see, make me worry:
1. What substrate do you use? It looks like soil or "edible tortoise bedding"... White stones don't look good, be it perlite or limestone pieces. When (not if) eaten they can be the cause of serious impaction. There are more safe and suitable options like coco coir, cypress mulch or orchid bark to use in the tortoise enclosure. For the baby you can go with coco coir, but any of three will work fine (you may check Swell Reptiles for cheap options).
2. You are using basking bulb with a dimming thermostat. So you either don't control temperatures at night or leave the lights on which affects tortoise sleep. Basking zone temperature should be stable in range of 35-37C (put a thermometer under the basking bulb for 30-60 minutes and check if it is correct).
3. You didn't mention humidity levels and may be didn't pay much attention to it. However, humid environment is required for smooth shell growth (50-70% across the viv).
4. You mentioned that you let him roam around the house. Please, stop doing that. It's not safe and the floors are usually too cold. If you want, you can set up a "playpen" for him - using kiddy pool with substrate, for example. When he tries to hide and burrow it may be as simple as he is stressed and looks for a suitable safe place to hide and stay warm.

Bathing/soaking in a lukewarm water (30-31C) is beneficial for them. You have to do it everyday. If he tries to climb out, be patient and check water temperature, moving helps him with digestion as well. Soaking is done in a opaque container, water level up to the point where top and bottom shell meet. Water should be kept warm all the time.

As for the hibernation (the right term for it is "brumation", so don't be surprised when you stumble upon it). You should not brumate/hibernate a sick tortoise, so postpone it till the next year.

P.S. - it's a pity that TortoiseForum has such reputation... Nobody is going to rip you apart for mistakes you made or for asking questions. Sometimes replies maybe uncomfortably direct, but it is not an offense of any kind.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi, nice to hear your tortoise is doing well!
Every egg batch as a "runt" I presume and I think thats herman. (its what I called my hermann tortoise very original I know).
I will try my best to keep him in good health etc, but I wish to see him having a normal routine, at the moment I bath him for about 5 mins because the water seems to get cold, do you fefresh the water or how do you keep the water warm enough?
After the bath he will munch a bit but then just go to bed and sleep for the rest of the day what I presume isn't ideal. But when I let him out he is quite fast and walks for like 30 mins what would be the opposite of lethargic symptoms so yeah I am a little bit lost on why he is acting the way he is.

There are two easy ways to make longer soaks:
1. Use two tubs and move him between them when water gets cold
2. Put the soaking tub in the enclosure close to (not under) the basking bulb.

 

[Raquel1978]

There are two easy ways to make longer soaks:
1. Use two tubs and move him between them when water gets cold
2. Put the soaking tub in the enclosure close to (not under) the basking bulb.

Hi, nice to hear your tortoise is doing well!
Every egg batch as a "runt" I presume and I think thats herman. (its what I called my hermann tortoise very original I know).
I will try my best to keep him in good health etc, but I wish to see him having a normal routine, at the moment I bath him for about 5 mins because the water seems to get cold, do you fefresh the water or how do you keep the water warm enough?
After the bath he will munch a bit but then just go to bed and sleep for the rest of the day what I presume isn't ideal. But when I let him out he is quite fast and walks for like 30 mins what would be the opposite of lethargic symptoms so yeah I am a little bit lost on why he is acting the way he is.

 

[Kisobel]

Hello!
While hatchlings hide a lot, what you describe doesn't seem to be a normal behaviour. If has been prescribed antibiotics and had symptoms of a respiratory infection, that usually means that something was off with his husbandry before you've got him or when you've got him. Often the reason is the wrong temperatures.

1. What are temperatures in the viv at night, when the heat lamp is off?
2. Can you tell exact models of lamps you use? Looks like you have two - basking and UVB, but maybe I've missed something from the photos.

Few things I see, make me worry:
1. What substrate do you use? It looks like soil or "edible tortoise bedding"... White stones don't look good, be it perlite or limestone pieces. When (not if) eaten they can be the cause of serious impaction. There are more safe and suitable options like coco coir, cypress mulch or orchid bark to use in the tortoise enclosure. For the baby you can go with coco coir, but any of three will work fine (you may check Swell Reptiles for cheap options).
2. You are using basking bulb with a dimming thermostat. So you either don't control temperatures at night or leave the lights on which affects tortoise sleep. Basking zone temperature should be stable in range of 35-37C (put a thermometer under the basking bulb for 30-60 minutes and check if it is correct).
3. You didn't mention humidity levels and may be didn't pay much attention to it. However, humid environment is required for smooth shell growth (50-70% across the viv).
4. You mentioned that you let him roam around the house. Please, stop doing that. It's not safe and the floors are usually too cold. If you want, you can set up a "playpen" for him - using kiddy pool with substrate, for example. When he tries to hide and burrow it may be as simple as he is stressed and looks for a suitable safe place to hide and stay warm.

Bathing/soaking in a lukewarm water (30-31C) is beneficial for them. You have to do it everyday. If he tries to climb out, be patient and check water temperature, moving helps him with digestion as well. Soaking is done in a opaque container, water level up to the point where top and bottom shell meet. Water should be kept warm all the time.

As for the hibernation (the right term for it is "brumation", so don't be surprised when you stumble upon it). You should not brumate/hibernate a sick tortoise, so postpone it till the next year.

P.S. - it's a pity that TortoiseForum has such reputation... Nobody is going to rip you apart for mistakes you made or for asking questions. Sometimes replies maybe uncomfortably direct, but it is not an offense of any kind.

Hi, thanks for the reply!
Okay so I'm at work at the moment and its a 12 hours shift so probably will not be able to get the specifics just yet I do apologize.

The tortoise bedding is not sandy nor soil, and it is not a mix of them. It of sorts feels like rocks but isn't too, its quite soft I am not sure the exact branding. The guy whom owns the shop has owned reptiles and tortoises for 25+ years, he uses the same stuff. I am not entirely sure how to describe it but it isn't the dusty type of substrate I will try get a closer picture when I am home or I will look through my phone.

For the heat lamp at night, I leave it on as my room is my converted loft, it was converted ages ago so the heat insulation rate is shockingly bad so it gets cold. If it was left off it would get very cold for little guy, however usually at night the heat lamp switches itself off that's the point of the sensor thingy, it dims itself and switches itself off when a specific temperature (set at 32). I cannot control the fact it seems to get colder in the corners its simply just how my room is, unless adding heat pads is needed. So at night the temperatures should stay around what I set them as, I'm afraid if I took it off he would freeze.

Yes you are correct I have a basking light (heat lamp as I call it) and a UVB, I leave the UVB on for about 12 hours, sometimes accidentally longer. I need to purchase an automatic timer thingy. Heat lamp stays on all the time due to me having the automatic on and off sensor thing as it detects and make sure it says the correct temperature. However as you said it may affect its sleep, that would make sense as it tends to sleep in the corner away from the light. I again am at work so unfortunately do not have the correct brands but looking at swell reptiles, it could potentially be "Arcadia Mercury Vapor D3 Basking Lamp", I know I have the correct type of heat lamp and not the coil one that potentially damages the eyes or something like that, its 100 Watts. For the UVB, it is at the back of my enclosure, as said before it stays on for min 12 hours as that's what I got told. I honestly couldn't answer what type of brand or make it was unless I went to the shop to re find out the brand, speaking to the guy though he seemed to believe with his experience its the best one as he uses it himself. (if curious his instagram is Spiderguy79). He told me to ask him advice personally and again avoid this forum but honestly I've taken most stuff he told me with a pinch of salt.

I never got told to check humidity honestly, I've never checked. Is there a humidity reader I can purchase? also how would one get the humidity higher / lower.
I don't let him roam around the house per say but yes it was on my carpet, I kinda built up walls and let him have a nice little wonder as it seems to be the only way I can get him to walk around at the moment, then he has a poo. He could be constipated due to this fact, he seems to strain as he goes into his shell to squeeze poo, not sure if that's normal or not. I will keep noted that he is just trying to get warm and burrow, I picked him up and placed him on my lap and he cuddled and slept into my jumper so maybe he was cold but swiftly after I put him back to warm up.

I do give him a bath every day, usually for 5 mins but ill deffo try make it longer. just struggle keeping it warm as its quite cold where I am at the moment.

for brumating I wouldn't even know how to start or notice if he was trying to do it himself, literally only came across the terminology today whilst ive spent about 4 hours researching it. I want to bring him to the vets in 4 days on my days off, he is way better than the last time I took him but definitely something still not right. Also I want to avoid brumating him as im scared ill do it wrong lol.

But yes I don't know what to believe anywhere, some people or websites say yeah its normal, some people say they can eat certain things or they cant eat the things I just got told they could. Its why I've stuck to the diet pellets as of now but he also seems to now reject any other food so I'm completely lost. I got told my substrate should work and be completely fine by the reptile specialist however looking here I have been told otherwise, he doesn't eat it tho what's positive lol.

But yes I will take him to the vets, I still have more antibiotics in the bottle but I got told to only give it for 2 weeks, I've been tempted to just start giving him it every 2 days again along side with the eye drops he needed originally (he actually opens that eye now so it seems ok for the eye drops). But yeah I do miss seeing him active for the like 2 days he was somewhat active, I just want the best for the little guy ill literally give all of my money to make sure he has the best life.

Do you have any advice that could help encourage him to be a bit more active or things I can do myself to make sure he has the best environment, next month I was going to exchange the substrate with the same stuff but fresh it. However I may just get the stuff that was recommended by you.

 

[Raquel1978]

I use 2 bathing bowls and just swap her between the 2 as the one gets to cold for her..

 

[Kisobel]

I use 2 bathing bowls and just swap her between the 2 as the one gets to cold for her..

good to know, thank you !
I am currently just using a small plastic tub that fits him in but I shall use two.

 

[Raquel1978]

Hi, thanks for the reply!
Okay so I'm at work at the moment and its a 12 hours shift so probably will not be able to get the specifics just yet I do apologize.

The tortoise bedding is not sandy nor soil, and it is not a mix of them. It of sorts feels like rocks but isn't too, its quite soft I am not sure the exact branding. The guy whom owns the shop has owned reptiles and tortoises for 25+ years, he uses the same stuff. I am not entirely sure how to describe it but it isn't the dusty type of substrate I will try get a closer picture when I am home or I will look through my phone.

For the heat lamp at night, I leave it on as my room is my converted loft, it was converted ages ago so the heat insulation rate is shockingly bad so it gets cold. If it was left off it would get very cold for little guy, however usually at night the heat lamp switches itself off that's the point of the sensor thingy, it dims itself and switches itself off when a specific temperature (set at 32). I cannot control the fact it seems to get colder in the corners its simply just how my room is, unless adding heat pads is needed. So at night the temperatures should stay around what I set them as, I'm afraid if I took it off he would freeze.

Yes you are correct I have a basking light (heat lamp as I call it) and a UVB, I leave the UVB on for about 12 hours, sometimes accidentally longer. I need to purchase an automatic timer thingy. Heat lamp stays on all the time due to me having the automatic on and off sensor thing as it detects and make sure it says the correct temperature. However as you said it may affect its sleep, that would make sense as it tends to sleep in the corner away from the light. I again am at work so unfortunately do not have the correct brands but looking at swell reptiles, it could potentially be "Arcadia Mercury Vapor D3 Basking Lamp", I know I have the correct type of heat lamp and not the coil one that potentially damages the eyes or something like that, its 100 Watts. For the UVB, it is at the back of my enclosure, as said before it stays on for min 12 hours as that's what I got told. I honestly couldn't answer what type of brand or make it was unless I went to the shop to re find out the brand, speaking to the guy though he seemed to believe with his experience its the best one as he uses it himself. (if curious his instagram is Spiderguy79). He told me to ask him advice personally and again avoid this forum but honestly I've taken most stuff he told me with a pinch of salt.

I never got told to check humidity honestly, I've never checked. Is there a humidity reader I can purchase? also how would one get the humidity higher / lower.
I don't let him roam around the house per say but yes it was on my carpet, I kinda built up walls and let him have a nice little wonder as it seems to be the only way I can get him to walk around at the moment, then he has a poo. He could be constipated due to this fact, he seems to strain as he goes into his shell to squeeze poo, not sure if that's normal or not. I will keep noted that he is just trying to get warm and burrow, I picked him up and placed him on my lap and he cuddled and slept into my jumper so maybe he was cold but swiftly after I put him back to warm up.

I do give him a bath every day, usually for 5 mins but ill deffo try make it longer. just struggle keeping it warm as its quite cold where I am at the moment.

for brumating I wouldn't even know how to start or notice if he was trying to do it himself, literally only came across the terminology today whilst ive spent about 4 hours researching it. I want to bring him to the vets in 4 days on my days off, he is way better than the last time I took him but definitely something still not right. Also I want to avoid brumating him as im scared ill do it wrong lol.

But yes I don't know what to believe anywhere, some people or websites say yeah its normal, some people say they can eat certain things or they cant eat the things I just got told they could. Its why I've stuck to the diet pellets as of now but he also seems to now reject any other food so I'm completely lost. I got told my substrate should work and be completely fine by the reptile specialist however looking here I have been told otherwise, he doesn't eat it tho what's positive lol.

But yes I will take him to the vets, I still have more antibiotics in the bottle but I got told to only give it for 2 weeks, I've been tempted to just start giving him it every 2 days again along side with the eye drops he needed originally (he actually opens that eye now so it seems ok for the eye drops). But yeah I do miss seeing him active for the like 2 days he was somewhat active, I just want the best for the little guy ill literally give all of my money to make sure he has the best life.

Do you have any advice that could help encourage him to be a bit more active or things I can do myself to make sure he has the best environment, next month I was going to exchange the substrate with the same stuff but fresh it. However I may just get the stuff that was recommended by you.

I use forest floor for my bedding it's also know as Cyprus mulch I find it easier to keep the humidity up.
I pour a little warm water into each corner and then mix it all in with the dry stuff that seems to work. You can buy a humidity reader I got mine from amazon.
I'm lucky in that my little one has eaten every new thing I've tried her with she's definitely not a picky eater.
Have you tried things like dandelions, radicchio, Watercress, honeysuckle.

Do you have a Che bulb? I bought one from amazon and set it up on the other side of her enclosure and it heats it up lovely.
It could be just a case of your little one being a little to cold maybe. As for the food they will eventually eat so I wouldn't worry to much about that.
If you check out the forums their is a diet/food section which I used constantly in the first couple of months along with the tortoise table.
I had to swap and change alot as I watched YouTube videos etc and their was so many conflicting opinions it was totally confusing, but since I've found this forum I don't look for answers or help anywhere else.

 

[Kisobel]

I use forest floor for my bedding it's also know as Cyprus mulch I find it easier to keep the humidity up.
I pour a little warm water into each corner and then mix it all in with the dry stuff that seems to work. You can buy a humidity reader I got mine from amazon.
I'm lucky in that my little one has eaten every new thing I've tried her with she's definitely not a picky eater.
Have you tried things like dandelions, radicchio, Watercress, honeysuckle.

Do you have a Che bulb? I bought one from amazon and set it up on the other side of her enclosure and it heats it up lovely.
It could be just a case of your little one being a little to cold maybe. As for the food they will eventually eat so I wouldn't worry to much about that.
If you check out the forums their is a diet/food section which I used constantly in the first couple of months along with the tortoise table.
I had to swap and change alot as I watched YouTube videos etc and their was so many conflicting opinions it was totally confusing, but since I've found this forum I don't look for answers or help anywhere else.

I am going to have a look at all of the suitable substrates and try pick a one I think would work the best for him. I will order a humidity reader as we speak! How do you think this one is (https://amzn.eu/d/afsSq3Z)?

How does the Che bulb work? does it go in the cool side of the enclosure, or is it a heat lamp replacement?

There is a chance he could be too cold honestly, I do try my best to monitor the heat but not much I can do as I said. I will try my best to let him eat however.

The pellet's are dandelion scented / flavored, however no I have avoided greens or plants etc. since he has gotten ill, simply kept him to these to try fatten him up a bit. Last time he was weighed it was 62grams from the 50 grams he was weighed a week prior. I know I said 50 originally but that was the weight he was at when the problems started.

But yeah honestly I've been pointed in every different direction where people say this is good! this is bad! and its confusing me and probably the little guy. Its a learning experience for the both of us!

 

[Tom]

Hello there,

I'm new to this forum and actually got told to avoid it from the pet shop however im in need and I'm here to ask for some advice and just overall knowledge / advice on my Hermann tortoise.

I bought them (I refer to them as a he for easiness) from a PetShop about a month and a bit ago, originally when I got him everything he done I presumed was normal tortoise behavior, he weighed 50 grams too and is about 10 months old to 1 year old the guy wasn't specific but the tortoise is rather small.
From me being obsessed over him, watching him for hours on days I cannot exactly remember but he seemed to explore his enclosure when I first put him in it, I presume so he got used to a new environment. Everything in his vivarium is optimal, I went to a reptile specialist vets and they verified.

After first getting him I picked up that he occasionally had a few bubbles come from his nose and it seems like he sneezes of sorts. He is always rubbing his right eye and he eventually stopped opening that eye for a bit. He was originally on a greens based diet, but it lacked variety so I found out that was incorrect. When I first picked up on symptoms I felt like something was wrong so I watched him over the days and he became less and less active. I live in england so there is a chance the cold weather doesn't help but the viv temp should fix that tho. After a few days of originally picking up on his symptoms he became very ill to the point he didn't move from under his log, refused food etc. I took him to a non specialist vets first and he got an injection originally and that seemed to somewhat help, he was also and still is on a "complete diet pellet" food where you add water to it and its very good for the tortoise I have been told + ace high vitamin powder + calcium powder.

He somewhat recovered but didn't open his right eye still so after a week I took him to the experts on it.

He was on a 2 week antibiotic plan, give 0.5 of antibiotics to him every 2 days, along side with eye drops. He is at the point where he is off the plan, I was supposed to go to the vets for a checkup 3 days ago but cannot for another 4 days.

The problem is or not problem, is that he seems to just go under his log and nap / sleep there all day. He seems to eat one day but the next day he either eats very very little or not at all. When I am not in the house he may go for the occasional wonder but I'm not too sure as I am not always there, but when people see him he is always asleep. So recently I've been waking him up and then letting him out on my floor, when he is out he is quite fast and can walk for about 30 mins constantly but he always seems to try and burrow into the side of things. His eyes are both open what's positive and he has a nice walk around what then means he has a poo but occasionally a wee. The only problem lies is that he always seems to be napping. On the 25th when I get paid I think im going to clean out his entire vivarium, new stuff just to hope the freshness will be better for him.

He has a morning routine where,
7am - 9am I will wake up and wake him up, pick him up and put him in the bath to soak up.
Usually he drinks the water there but mostly just sits there or tries to get out after 5 mins. I have only seen him poop twice in the bath.

After this I put him back in the viv under the basking spot to warm up and dry off and then I prepare the pellets food. After 5 mins or so if he hasn't already wondered over to the food, ill place him nexto it showing that there is food there and he will eat some. Its a bowl of sorts but its not on a flat surface so it seems he kinda struggles to eat a bit so I tried to add more substrate around the bowl so he is more up so he doesn't struggle as much. He will eat, tend to crawl into the bowl, eat what he can see from the point he is and then walk away leaving most of the food but then he seems just uninterested in the food.

After this for the rest of the day he seems to just nap or hide under his log, he will move a little bit but its usually just different positions under his log till he hides in the corner then I know he is a sleep.

Later in the day though I try wake him up and let him out to wonder around the floor with supervision.
I have been giving it a thought and he may need to hibernate but honestly I have no idea how to do this or how to do it safe or when they do this etc etc. Additionally worried that because of me taking him out and bathing him, trying to make him alright has actually made it worse.

Me explaining all of this is, does this sound normal or not? I seriously do not know what my tortoise should be doing day to day. I got told to avoid tortoise forums as people rip into you for any single thing you may slightly be doing wrong but its my first time, I love the little guy and just want to know if he seems alright.
Here is all info if anyone is curious,
-
1. Food He is on - Komodo Complete Holistic Tortoise Diet, Dandelion (https://amzn.eu/d/fsUlvRH)
-
2. Vivarium Temperatures - Hot side I try get 30-32 degrees, Cool side is about 22 - 25 degrees. This is controlled with my heat lamp / bulb being connected to a temperature sensor to auto adjust (come on / come off / dim to get to correct temp). In the very corners it sometimes reads about 29-30 and he seems to prefer sleeping at these temperatures
-
3. Baskin Spot Temperatures - This is quite higher I do not have an exact reading but due to my room being cold and to make the hot side hot, it reads to about 50 degrees or so, yes I make sure the ground isn't too hot and seems just warm and nice and he seems happy when under it.
-
Below I will provide photos.

Ugh... I wish I hadn't read this. I was going to go back to bed after taking my puppies down for their early morning potty breaks, but now I have to type up a long response for you. Don't feel bad. Its not your fault my brain is like this...

Let's recap:
Pet shop sold you a stunted, sick, tortoise with a bad eye, the wrong substrate, the wrong lights, the wrong way to control your lights, and then tries to warn you away from the very people who will help you get things right and solve the problems that THEY caused. Hmm... That sounds par for the course as that is what almost always happens to new people. Your tortoise is not a runt. It is yet another baby that has been cared for incorrectly by the breeder and/or seller.

Let's get started... We don't rip into people because pet shops, vets, and "reptile specialists" all gave them the same old wrong care info that has been circulating for decades. Quite the opposite, we try to explain what is wrong and try to help. Our goal here it to help people and their tortoises. Ripping in to people will not accomplish that goal. We do have to tell you what is wrong, but only so that you will know what to fix. After you read this material, you will likely be upset and frustrated. You are getting conflicting info and you don't know who to believe, and all you want is for your baby to thrive and be healthy. We will help get you there. Look at the results from the people advising you so far. How has that been working out for you? While some of this may be confusing or upsetting, please remember as you go along that we aren't selling you anything, and our intention is to help.

Problems I see:
1. Basking lamps need to be on a timer, not a thermostat. You don't want the sun going on and off all day. Set the correct temperature by adjusting the height or the wattage of the bulb. In a viv, you can't really adjust the height, so use a lower wattage bulb, or use a rheostat to adjust the wattage, but then run that bulb through a timer. It should be on, like the sun, for 12-13 hours a day.
2. 50C is WAY too hot for the basking area. It should only be around 36-37C directly under your basking lamp. Check this by laying a digital thermometer on its back directly under the bulb and letting it cook for an hour or more. Adjust as needed to get it 36C.
3. The dimming thermostat should be used with an ambient heat source like a CHE. The thermostat keeps the temp from dropping too low on a cold night. THAT is what a thermostat is for. It needs to be dark at night. The CHE set on a thermostat will keep it warm enough, but still dark.
4. Your basking bulb, what is it? It looks like a mercury vapor bulb. If it is, that is not a good one to use. They are unreliable, sometimes unsafe (burned eyes), and they run too hot for a viv. They also cause pyramiding in small growing tortoises. You need a regular incandescent flood bulb. Arcadia sells them. What wattage you need depends on the temperatures, but probably a 50 watt in our small viv. Maybe a 75 in winter. Only your thermometer can tell you. If you are running a MVB and the UV tube, you have way too much UV and the tortoise is hiding because the lights are burning its eyes.
5. That substrate is dangerous, desiccating and totally inappropriate. The pet shop has been using it for 25 years? Maybe that's why their animals are way undersize, sick, and have bad eyes. You need a damp substrate for a baby. There are three types that work. That info and a bunch more info will be in the thread I will link at the bottom of this post. Buckle up, that is going to be a wild ride.
6. Loose on the floor is too cold, and its a recipe for disaster. Fix the enclosure problems, and your baby will be active in its enclosure. SO many people choose to learn this lesson the hard way. Don't be one of those people. Its heart breaking when you realize we were right and its too late.
7. Soak for 30-40 minutes daily.
8. The diet should be primarily leafy greens. Weeds and leaves are best, but grocery store greens can work if amended properly. The pellet food you are using is okay as a supplemental food, not as the primary diet. Much more diet info in the threads.
9. Its great that you got a viv. That is one thing that was done right. But with that substrate and those hot lamps, its too dry in there. Babies need higher humidity. 70-80% is good. Damp substrate and a humid hide will allow the baby to create its own humid microclimates, as it would in the wild.

Okay. Hope that wasn't too painful. Now, let's move on to the correct care info. Read through this link at least twice. Take it all in. Its worded carefully and the details matter. There is a heating lighting breakdown near the bottom, and also a temperate species care sheet. Read all of that. You will quickly realize that much of it sounds very different than what the pet shop, vets, and experts have been telling you. That is GOOD! Look at the results their info has produced! NOW you are getting the right info. Our info produces the result that you are hoping for. Read through once. Then read through a second time, and write down all your questions. Please question any of this. Ask why it differs from what "they" told you. Eventually, all of this will become crystal clear. We all started where you are. I want to get you up to where WE are now.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Okay. NOW I can go back to bed for little while...

 

[Tom]

If you need further convincing, here is a success story from earlier this year:

Best Way to Prevent More Pyramiding in Hatchling?

After having a couple days to really look closely at my little russian's shell, I think he/she was started to dry and already has signs of pyramiding at three months of age (frustrating because they came from one of the three well recommended breeders in Canada). Beyond ensuring proper humidity...

tortoiseforum.org

Different species, and different problem, but it shows how well the correct care for a growing temperate species baby works. The little baby in this thread was also started and cared for incorrectly by the breeder and/or the seller.

 

[Raquel1978]

I am going to have a look at all of the suitable substrates and try pick a one I think would work the best for him. I will order a humidity reader as we speak! How do you think this one is (https://amzn.eu/d/afsSq3Z)?

How does the Che bulb work? does it go in the cool side of the enclosure, or is it a heat lamp replacement?

There is a chance he could be too cold honestly, I do try my best to monitor the heat but not much I can do as I said. I will try my best to let him eat however.

The pellet's are dandelion scented / flavored, however no I have avoided greens or plants etc. since he has gotten ill, simply kept him to these to try fatten him up a bit. Last time he was weighed it was 62grams from the 50 grams he was weighed a week prior. I know I said 50 originally but that was the weight he was at when the problems started.

But yeah honestly I've been pointed in every different direction where people say this is good! this is bad! and its confusing me and probably the little guy. Its a learning experience for the both of us!

Looking at your set up mine is quite similar.
I also have the basking light on one side then the uv in the middle and down the bottom end I have a Che holder.
I have the cage type and a Che bulb again from amazon, it doesn't replace what you already have as it only adds heat not light it just keeps that bottom end at a decent temperature so it's not to cold.

I can't tell from your picture but do you have ambient lighting, at one point I thought I had everything right the temperature was great the humidity was fine but still my little one would only really stay up where her basking area was.

I added normal strip leds it has to be pure white tho to replicate daytime they were very cheap and easy to stick to the top of her house and from the minute I put them in she loves wandering in that area. I think it was just slightly to dark for her that little and cheap change made a lot of difference.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I am going to have a look at all of the suitable substrates and try pick a one I think would work the best for him. I will order a humidity reader as we speak! How do you think this one is (https://amzn.eu/d/afsSq3Z)?

How does the Che bulb work? does it go in the cool side of the enclosure, or is it a heat lamp replacement?

There is a chance he could be too cold honestly, I do try my best to monitor the heat but not much I can do as I said. I will try my best to let him eat however.

The pellet's are dandelion scented / flavored, however no I have avoided greens or plants etc. since he has gotten ill, simply kept him to these to try fatten him up a bit. Last time he was weighed it was 62grams from the 50 grams he was weighed a week prior. I know I said 50 originally but that was the weight he was at when the problems started.

But yeah honestly I've been pointed in every different direction where people say this is good! this is bad! and its confusing me and probably the little guy. Its a learning experience for the both of us!

Unfortunately, Amazon link doesn't work for me Literally, any digital (with a display) humidity/temperature sensor from a hardware store will work.

CHE goes closer to the cold side. It's supplementary heat source to the basking lamp, to ensure that your tortoise is not freezing. You will need a fixture with ceramic socket to install it (wide dome is also nice to have to project the heat below). CHE should be used with a thermostat to keep temperature stable. Maybe, the one you already have will work, I just need to know which one do you have.

Basking bulb you have is most likely not a mercury vapour bulb (they don't work with dimmers). Chances high, that it could be Arcadia Solar Basking Floodlight (which is a fine lamp for the basking zone).

If you have packaging, order details or you can make photos of labels on your equipment, this will help to understand if you need to replace something. Hopefully, not.

At the first place, I would address the ambient temperatures. If they are too low, antibiotic treatment would be ineffective and your guy will get sick again. Also without correct temperatures proper digestion is not possible and activity levels are reduced

 

[Tom]

Since a CHE is meant to keep ambient heat up all over the whole enclosure over night, it is best to try to keep it near the middle.

Basking bulbs should be to one side or the other so that there is a thermal gradient.

UV tubes should be over near the basking bulb, as the skin needs to be warm for the UVB to work its magic, and most basking reptiles associate heat and UV together, as it would come from the sun outside.

Ambient light should be in the middle too, so that the whole enclosure is lit up like day time.

 

[Kisobel]

Since a CHE is meant to keep ambient heat up all over the whole enclosure over night, it is best to try to keep it near the middle.

Basking bulbs should be to one side or the other so that there is a thermal gradient.

UV tubes should be over near the basking bulb, as the skin needs to be warm for the UVB to work its magic, and most basking reptiles associate heat and UV together, as it would come from the sun outside.

Ambient light should be in the middle too, so that the whole enclosure is lit up like day time.

I read what you previously said too, quite a shock. I'm going to order new substrate asap.

I managed to get pictures for you of everything I currently have.

Re looking at the heat lamp I think its the one that damages the little guys eyes and I feel guilty as f because of it, I've been trying my absolute hardest for him too.

So what you are saying is these are the things I need to purchase
-
New Heat Lamp
New Substrate
Che bulb
Humidity Stat
-
Do you have recommendations? its a 4ft vivarium.
For ambient lighting however, the UVB stretches across the entire backside of the viv. Do I still need ambient lighting?

 

[Kisobel]

Unfortunately, Amazon link doesn't work for me Literally, any digital (with a display) humidity/temperature sensor from a hardware store will work.

CHE goes closer to the cold side. It's supplementary heat source to the basking lamp, to ensure that your tortoise is not freezing. You will need a fixture with ceramic socket to install it (wide dome is also nice to have to project the heat below). CHE should be used with a thermostat to keep temperature stable. Maybe, the one you already have will work, I just need to know which one do you have.

Basking bulb you have is most likely not a mercury vapour bulb (they don't work with dimmers). Chances high, that it could be Arcadia Solar Basking Floodlight (which is a fine lamp for the basking zone).

If you have packaging, order details or you can make photos of labels on your equipment, this will help to understand if you need to replace something. Hopefully, not.

At the first place, I would address the ambient temperatures. If they are too low, antibiotic treatment would be ineffective and your guy will get sick again. Also without correct temperatures proper digestion is not possible and activity levels are reduced

Its called habistat or "dimming thermostat", ill provide an image.

Also from my setup you'd say just where the log is?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I read what you previously said too, quite a shock. I'm going to order new substrate asap.

I managed to get pictures for you of everything I currently have.

Re looking at the heat lamp I think its the one that damages the little guys eyes and I feel guilty as f because of it, I've been trying my absolute hardest for him too.

So what you are saying is these are the things I need to purchase
-
New Heat Lamp
New Substrate
Che bulb
Humidity Stat
-
Do you have recommendations? its a 4ft vivarium.
For ambient lighting however, the UVB stretches across the entire backside of the viv. Do I still need ambient lighting?

Heat lamp is a spot type bulb and 150W. It makes a narrow beam of light and heat, it doesn't hurt eyes, but can easily overheat the basking zone and tortoise. You need a bit less powerful and a flood type. Arcadia Solar Basking *Flood*light, for example. Can't tell for sure about wattage, but 75W are usually enough. You might get a wide dome for it too (the widest I've seen are in the farming supply stores - brooder lamp shades).

Your guy looks *very* dry on the photo. He needs a good soaking now. Put the soaking container in the viv near the basking lamp (not directly under it), don't leave him without supervision.

Look for substrate on SwellReptile (they have rather cheap fine grade orchid bark under their brand).

CHE - get a 100 watt. Some recommended ProRep here (it's said to last for ages).

You don't need Humiditystat or humidifier/mister and such stuff. But you need a digital thermometer/hygrometer (anything with a display, less than 10 pounds in the hardware store).

What is the distance from UVB lamp to substrate? You have a T8 lamp, they have weak UV output, so it might not give effective UVB if mounted too high.

The thermostat, that you have, works with heat lamps only (it won't allow ceramic heat emitter to heat up). It can help to adjust basking zone temperature, though. A simple on/off thermostat will work just fine - https://habistat.com/product-details/thermostats/temperature-thermostat

About ambient lightning: UVB lamp should be on for 4 hours a day, around midday (it mimics natural sun UV peak). However, visible light should be available through the day (12 hours), so LED strip is used for that.

Please, don't feel guilty. You are here, ready to learn and make improvements. Many keepers made mistakes in the past and received wrong care information. I've brought my redfoot home in a 40 gallon tank with a heat mat and recommended diet of broccoli, carrots and green peppers... That was all wrong from A to Z, but the guy at the pet shop probably didn't have the better info...

 

[Kisobel]

Heat lamp is a spot type bulb and 150W. It makes a narrow beam of light and heat, it doesn't hurt eyes, but can easily overheat the basking zone and tortoise. You need a bit less powerful and a flood type. Arcadia Solar Basking *Flood*light, for example. Can't tell for sure about wattage, but 75W are usually enough. You might get a wide dome for it too (the widest I've seen are in the farming supply stores - brooder lamp shades).

Your guy looks *very* dry on the photo. He needs a good soaking now. Put the soaking container in the viv near the basking lamp (not directly under it), don't leave him without supervision.

Look for substrate on SwellReptile (they have rather cheap fine grade orchid bark under their brand).

CHE - get a 100 watt. Some recommended ProRep here (it's said to last for ages).

You don't need Humiditystat or humidifier/mister and such stuff. But you need a digital thermometer/hygrometer (anything with a display, less than 10 pounds in the hardware store).

What is the distance from UVB lamp to substrate? You have a T8 lamp, they have weak UV output, so it might not give effective UVB if mounted too high.

The thermostat, that you have, works with heat lamps only (it won't allow ceramic heat emitter to heat up). It can help to adjust basking zone temperature, though. A simple on/off thermostat will work just fine - https://habistat.com/product-details/thermostats/temperature-thermostat

About ambient lightning: UVB lamp should be on for 4 hours a day, around midday (it mimics natural sun UV peak). However, visible light should be available through the day (12 hours), so LED strip is used for that.

Please, don't feel guilty. You are here, ready to learn and make improvements. Many keepers made mistakes in the past and received wrong care information. I've brought my redfoot home in a 40 gallon tank with a heat mat and recommended diet of broccoli, carrots and green peppers... That was all wrong from A to Z, but the guy at the pet shop probably didn't have the better info...

Thank you so much,

yes I did soak him after for about 20 mins and he drank the water for about a min. Must have been thirsty

I found the substrate I am using currently (https://www.reptilia.org.uk/habistat-tortoise-bedding-10l-11911-p.asp)

Is this deffo not good for the tortoise and needs a change? I found this (https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/habistat-coir-substrate-5-10ltrs#coir-substrate-10-litres) but it looks like it will get very muddy and I got told to avoid that. Like on this forum sorry for the doubt still, I got advised he needs to have a dry environment. So yeah I am still rather lost thats all.

thank you tho, deffo helpful what you sent and told me !