Help! Sick tortoise

[will96]

Hi all. I've had a baby leopard since October that i was told was about 3 months old. Up until two days ago he seemed fine mostly, but i have been concerned that his plastron is still pretty soft in the middle so I've been trying to give him more calcium the last week or so prior to him getting sick. I had not been supplementing much at all prior since he has good lighting and the greens i give him have quite a bit of calcium already, and there's a cuttlebone in there I've never seen him use.

Anyway the current issue is since day before yesterday he has been barely able to move. He's not eating, he doesn't seem able to even walk over to his food (hence the spaghetti squash in the picture he pushed himself on). He is moving some but its like he doesn't have the strength to walk. I suspect it has to do with low nighttime temps which i have remedied very recently with a CHE and a new top i made thats not quite done but functional. The humidity also wasnt where it should have been during the day thanks to a bad hygrometer. The temps at night were getting as low as 69. Now i have it set for 85 on the che which it maintains at night and it gets to about 90 where the temp sensors in the pic are at during the day, current hygrometer shows about 75% (its the dangling sensor with all the wires on the left of the tank). I'm hoping my mods will get him better but i want to know if there's anything else i can do? Right now he looks baddd. Thanks for any help.

 

[LaLaP]

Do you soak him? Soak him daily in warm water (85-95 degrees). Keep adding warm warmer as needed to keep the temp up. Make sure he doesn't drown, especially while he is sick and weak. Soak for at least 30 mins daily.. maybe even more while he is sick.

 

[will96]

I have been giving him soaks but probably not often enough after reading all the stuff here. I tried to give him a soak this morning though and it didnt seem like he had the strength to keep his head above water so i cut it short. A couple of the soaks i did this week i put a sprinkle of calcium powder in the water and mixed it in since thats where he seems to usually drink alot of water.

 

[will96]

Do you soak him? Soak him daily in warm water (85-95 degrees). Keep adding warm warmer as needed to keep the temp up. Make sure he doesn't drown, especially while he is sick and weak. Soak for at least 30 mins daily.. maybe even more while he is sick.

And actually the day before he got sick i gave him a long soak in calcium water that started at about 95-100 degrees but it was pretty cold when i took him out 20 -25 mins later.

 

[LaLaP]

I would keep up the soaks but find something to prop his head on so he can rest and watch him the whole time. 100 degrees is a bit high.

My method for keeping soak water warm is to do it in my bathroom sink. Wash sink without chemicals, heat up the cold porcelain with hot water for several minutes. Put an inch or so of 90 degree water, put in the tortoise and keep checking water temp every few minutes. I use a temp gun. When it gets to 83 degrees I fill a container with hot water (95-100) from my bath tub tap. Then drain half the water from the sink and pour in warm water to proper level. This ensures that it is never too hot or cold and I don't have to disturb the tort too much.

 

[Maro2Bear]

And actually the day before he got sick i gave him a long soak in calcium water that started at about 95-100 degrees but it was pretty cold when i took him out 20 -25 mins later.

As the water cools down you just top up with more warm water to ensure you have a good constant temperature, just like you would with a baby.

 

[Lyn W]

Maybe stating the obvious, but take out some of the cooler water before topping up though so it doesn't get too deep for him.

Poor thing looks pretty sick, I think I would see a vet.
I would concentrate on keeping the temps up .
What is his breathing like? Any sign of bubbles from nose?
If you find the leopard caresheet that will guide you on temps etc.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Where/who did you purchase this tortoise from? That answer will provide more clues to the puzzle.

 

[Chasen]

Since you are already soaking and you said he's drinking (although I understand the it absorbs through the skin), it couldn't hurt to do a carrot soak. I use a tupperware container that conveniently holds the amount of water I need for a soak. What you want to do is get gerber carrot baby food in the jar. The soak will be a 50/50 mix with water for 3 days. I saw marked improvement with my little one and so I repeated the process again. He now thrives. Mine wasn't as down as your's would appear to be, but it can't hurt. Please keep us updated.

 

[Yvonne G]

Another soaking tip: Use a small enough bowl so you can put the whole thing back into the enclosure NEXT to where the light shines on the substrate. That way you don't have to worry about the water getting cold.

 

[Mellivora]

Can someone please enlighten me as to why one has to soak a leopard tortoise? What is the purpose of this soaking? Anyhow a temperature of 100 is extremely high for a leopard tortoise considering that incubating temperature is only in the region of 80. Being cold blooded they cannot regulate there body temperature like we can, but more or less takes on the temperature of the environment. In nature if the temperature exceeds 80 they will find a cool spot in the shade or hide under long grass and here i refer to even the adult ones. Where they occur in nature a 100 degrees is considered to be a heat wave and under those circumstances the only water bodies that they may encounter would be fairly large (smaller ones would evaporate) and will probably only reach a temperature in the region of 80 degrees.

 

[Ben02]

Can someone please enlighten me as to why one has to soak a leopard tortoise? What is the purpose of this soaking? Anyhow a temperature of 100 is extremely high for a leopard tortoise considering that incubating temperature is only in the region of 80. Being cold blooded they cannot regulate there body temperature like we can, but more or less takes on the temperature of the environment. In nature if the temperature exceeds 80 they will find a cool spot in the shade or hide under long grass and here i refer to even the adult ones. Where they occur in nature a 100 degrees is considered to be a heat wave and under those circumstances the only water bodies that they may encounter would be fairly large (smaller ones would evaporate) and will probably only reach a temperature in the region of 80 degrees.

It is very important to bathe babies daily because they get dehydrated really easily and quickly. Dehydration can lead to bladder stones and other issues later on.

 

[Mellivora]

It is very important to bathe babies daily because they get dehydrated really easily and quickly. Dehydration can lead to bladder stones and other issues later on.

Ben02 - Who soaks them in nature in their natural habitat where day temperatures can be in the 90s for days on end with no rain for more than a month? if their cage/ enclosure is not overheated and they have access to drinking water it should suffice. The cage should never be too humid as this can be very unhealthy.
If you really want to soak place them in a very shallow dish with the water just deep enough to reach the top end of the portion of the carapace that extends below the head. If they are thirsty they will extend the head and drink from the shallow water. Water should be at room temperature (or less for drinking) - not more than 85 degrees.
If they attempt to climb out of the dish remove them. In nature they will avoid any place where the temperature exceeds 90, in the mornings they will emerge from their hiding place to soak up a bit of sun but as soon as they are warm enough they will move to a shady spot and may alternate between the two areas to suit their needs.

 

[Mellivora]

PS If you are worried about dehydration include a portion of grated English cucumber in their food (not too much it must not be their total food intake) - they love it and it provides natural moisture similar to the succulents and other fleshy plants that they thrive on in the wild.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

Ben02 - Who soaks them in nature in their natural habitat where day temperatures can be in the 90s for days on end with no rain for more than a month? if their cage/ enclosure is not overheated and they have access to drinking water it should suffice. The cage should never be too humid as this can be very unhealthy.
If you really want to soak place them in a very shallow dish with the water just deep enough to reach the top end of the portion of the carapace that extends below the head. If they are thirsty they will extend the head and drink from the shallow water. Water should be at room temperature (or less for drinking) - not more than 85 degrees.
If they attempt to climb out of the dish remove them. In nature they will avoid any place where the temperature exceeds 90, in the mornings they will emerge from their hiding place to soak up a bit of sun but as soon as they are warm enough they will move to a shady spot and may alternate between the two areas to suit their needs.

All of what your stating is old, outdated, and disproven info. I would encourage you to do a little research here on this forum into the literally 100's of posts concerning studies, experiments, and results about raising baby torts in dry conditions vs humid and Pyramiding.

 

[Mellivora]

All of what your stating is old, outdated, and disproven info. I would encourage you to do a little research here on this forum into the literally 100's of posts concerning studies, experiments, and results about raising baby torts in dry conditions vs humid and Pyramiding.

OLD, yes like me
OUTDATED, did not know that first hand experience of NATURE can be outdated
DISPROVEN, where were these studies and experiments done, in their natural habitat?

Look at my avatar, baby and mom, dad is slightly smaller than mom and was the size of the baby when I got him.
I have read info on this website by some of the fundis and just shook my head.
Unfortunately I do not have the time to expand now.
Just one example. In one of the advice sheets the following is said regarding the natural habitat of leopard tortoises:
"Yes the area is dry for 8-9 months out of the year, but it is a swamp during hatching season."
Has the author ever been to Africa? Leopard tortoises are found in a wide variety of areas in Africa with a equally wide spread of climates a lot of which are arid.
The Karoo area for instance is semi desert with more shrub like growth than grass and of course succulents - the only trees are probably those that humans have planted at their homesteads - extremely hot in summer during the day and very cold in winter during the night.
Very low rainfall and definitely NEVER swampy conditions.

The Kruger National park on the other hand has many trees and tall grass lands a much higher rainfall but still no marshes.
In both these areas leopard tortoises still occur naturally in large numbers - in the one because human population is very low due to the dry circumstances, mainly sheep farming with the average farm being thousands of acres and few predators, in the other because it is a vast nature reserve where all human movement outside of vehicles are escorted by game rangers except for the poachers and they are more interested in elephants and rhinos.

Where I stay day temperatures varies between 85 and 105 during the day in summer and during winter night temperatures have dropped as low as 15 on the odd occasion but normally varies between 40 and 50.
Rainfall is in summer and if we have more than 50mm of rain in a day puddles may form but due to the high temps they dry out within a couple of days.
And under these circumstances leopard tortoise hatchlings raise themselves in the veld without human intervention.
Please pardon my English it is not my mother tongue.

 

[Ben02]

Ben02 - Who soaks them in nature in their natural habitat where day temperatures can be in the 90s for days on end with no rain for more than a month? if their cage/ enclosure is not overheated and they have access to drinking water it should suffice. The cage should never be too humid as this can be very unhealthy.
If you really want to soak place them in a very shallow dish with the water just deep enough to reach the top end of the portion of the carapace that extends below the head. If they are thirsty they will extend the head and drink from the shallow water. Water should be at room temperature (or less for drinking) - not more than 85 degrees.
If they attempt to climb out of the dish remove them. In nature they will avoid any place where the temperature exceeds 90, in the mornings they will emerge from their hiding place to soak up a bit of sun but as soon as they are warm enough they will move to a shady spot and may alternate between the two areas to suit their needs.

Please remember that these animals are kept in captivity, therefore they are not in their natural habitat and to be honest I know that keeping babies indoors is not always ideal as the humidity can vary but we counter this by keeping the enclosure humid (depending on the species) and bathing daily. We are talking about babies here not adults.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

OLD, yes like me
OUTDATED, did not know that first hand experience of NATURE can be outdated
DISPROVEN, where were these studies and experiments done, in their natural habitat?

Look at my avatar, baby and mom, dad is slightly smaller than mom and was the size of the baby when I got him.
I have read info on this website by some of the fundis and just shook my head.
Unfortunately I do not have the time to expand now.
Just one example. In one of the advice sheets the following is said regarding the natural habitat of leopard tortoises:
"Yes the area is dry for 8-9 months out of the year, but it is a swamp during hatching season."
Has the author ever been to Africa? Leopard tortoises are found in a wide variety of areas in Africa with a equally wide spread of climates a lot of which are arid.
The Karoo area for instance is semi desert with more shrub like growth than grass and of course succulents - the only trees are probably those that humans have planted at their homesteads - extremely hot in summer during the day and very cold in winter during the night.
Very low rainfall and definitely NEVER swampy conditions.

The Kruger National park on the other hand has many trees and tall grass lands a much higher rainfall but still no marshes.
In both these areas leopard tortoises still occur naturally in large numbers - in the one because human population is very low due to the dry circumstances, mainly sheep farming with the average farm being thousands of acres and few predators, in the other because it is a vast nature reserve where all human movement outside of vehicles are escorted by game rangers except for the poachers and they are more interested in elephants and rhinos.

Where I stay day temperatures varies between 85 and 105 during the day in summer and during winter night temperatures have dropped as low as 15 on the odd occasion but normally varies between 40 and 50.
Rainfall is in summer and if we have more than 50mm of rain in a day puddles may form but due to the high temps they dry out within a couple of days.
And under these circumstances leopard tortoise hatchlings raise themselves in the veld without human intervention.
Please pardon my English it is not my mother tongue.

I honestly don't know anything about S Africa or their native climate. That's not really what I was referring too. As far as old, and outdated, I meant for raising them in super dry conditions being the best in captivity. Like "Just give them a water dish and that's fine". I am new too tortoise keeping but since frequenting this forum a while now I've seen MANY threads of people raising perfectly healthy, smooth, and nice looking tortoises in humid closed chambers. I've seen 0 like this being raised dry. Or countless times I've seen threads where people's torts were barely surviving in a dry system but then the tortoise gets much better, begins thriving and growing once the owner converts to a humid closed chamber. Also your description of soaking: "If you really want to soak place them in a very shallow dish with the water just deep enough to reach the top end of the portion of the carapace that extends below the head. If they are thirsty they will extend the head and drink from the shallow water". Is exactly what we are referring to when we mention soaking your tortoise here on the forum.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

OLD, yes like me
OUTDATED, did not know that first hand experience of NATURE can be outdated
DISPROVEN, where were these studies and experiments done, in their natural habitat?

Look at my avatar, baby and mom, dad is slightly smaller than mom and was the size of the baby when I got him.
I have read info on this website by some of the fundis and just shook my head.
Unfortunately I do not have the time to expand now.
Just one example. In one of the advice sheets the following is said regarding the natural habitat of leopard tortoises:
"Yes the area is dry for 8-9 months out of the year, but it is a swamp during hatching season."
Has the author ever been to Africa? Leopard tortoises are found in a wide variety of areas in Africa with a equally wide spread of climates a lot of which are arid.
The Karoo area for instance is semi desert with more shrub like growth than grass and of course succulents - the only trees are probably those that humans have planted at their homesteads - extremely hot in summer during the day and very cold in winter during the night.
Very low rainfall and definitely NEVER swampy conditions.

The Kruger National park on the other hand has many trees and tall grass lands a much higher rainfall but still no marshes.
In both these areas leopard tortoises still occur naturally in large numbers - in the one because human population is very low due to the dry circumstances, mainly sheep farming with the average farm being thousands of acres and few predators, in the other because it is a vast nature reserve where all human movement outside of vehicles are escorted by game rangers except for the poachers and they are more interested in elephants and rhinos.

Where I stay day temperatures varies between 85 and 105 during the day in summer and during winter night temperatures have dropped as low as 15 on the odd occasion but normally varies between 40 and 50.
Rainfall is in summer and if we have more than 50mm of rain in a day puddles may form but due to the high temps they dry out within a couple of days.
And under these circumstances leopard tortoise hatchlings raise themselves in the veld without human intervention.
Please pardon my English it is not my mother tongue.

Well, to start with, the tortoise in your aviator, that you raised from a baby, is pyramided. That is from being raised too dry. In the wild, tortoises will dig down to find the moister they need, they also hide under leaf litter and anything else which gives them higher humidity. The people here on this forum, raise healthy non pyramided tortoises by using the soaking and humidity. They have done many exspermints, studied torts in the wild, and much more to correct the old outdated information.

 

[Lyn W]

@will96
Any news on your poor sick baby?