Hatchling not gaining much weight

[ChiKat]

Nelson is now 5-months old and he really hasn't gained much weight in the past few months. I feed him every day for 20 minutes but since he's a slow (but steady!) eater I usually just let him finish what I put in his enclosure.
Should I increase his portion size? Let him eat longer?

8/26 he was 34 grams after eating.
9/22 he was 39 grams before eating.
10/23 today he is 42 grams before eating, 2 1/2 in. SCL

The heaviest he has ever weighed was on 10/02 he weighed 45 grams after eating. (I'm kind of obsessive about weighing him...first time parent and all )

He has a healthy appetite, is fairly active, and poops regularly. He's also very friendly Yesterday when I peeked into his enclosure he hurried over and climbed up his log to get to me...not sure why he likes me so much because it seems like whenever I take him out it's to soak him, weigh him, measure him, etc

He gets a wide variety of spring mix, other various lettuces and some weeds (mostly dandelion leaves). He tried aloe for the first time the other day and LOVED it. I also sprinkle TNT on his food regularly and I'm going out to buy a different calcium power today.

Nelson at 10 weeks

Nelson at 5 months

His shell is changing a little!

 

[Yvonne G]

Wow! Nelson is one of the prettiest Russian hatchlings I've seen in a while. He's just so perfect!

Maybe he's just a slow grower. Have you traced his outline on a piece of paper? Usually when you make a tracing you can see some growth in a month when you make a new tracing on the same sheet of paper (right on top of the old one).

Do you have access to a mullberry tree? Grape vines? These are both good kinds of leaves to feed a Russian.

(Don't tell anyone, but I also feed my babies chopped up, uncooked veggies: zucchini, yellow squash, bell pepper, broccoli, occasionally corn on the cob, raddiccio, endive, escarole, and yes, even the occasional cucumber. But, Sh-h-h-h...don't tell anyone!)

Yvonne

 

[ChiKat]

Thank you Yvonne! I think he's perfect but of course I'm biased
I will trace his outline on a piece of paper- what a great idea!

I'll look around for a mulberry tree. There's one in my neighborhood at home but I haven't found one here at school.

Oh and I won't tell anyone your secret I'm sure Nelson will enjoy a little more variety

 

[Meg90]

Have you wormed him?

If you got him from a big breeder, its likely he could be carrying a parasite. I would try butternut squash on him, boiled til its alittle softer and then mashed.

The little Greek that I got from Danny, Novalee will be three months old on the 25th. At 2 mos she was 35g. Yesterday, just for fun, I popper her butt on the scale and she tipped it at 42g...I'm going to weigh and measure her on the 25th though, I didn't record that number.

But on average, she was gaining about 2-5g a week.

I keep my records like this:
Date, Tortoise's Name, tortoise's length in cm, weight in g, and age.

So, for this month, Novalee's record will look like this:

10/25/09, Novalee measured __" SCL and weighed __g at 3 months and 0 days old.

 

[ChiKat]

Oo I like how you record that Meg! I just have mine in an Excel sheet with the date, weight, and condition such as: before eating, just pooped, etc. but I like how you set yours up better.

I have butternut squash baby food for him but would you recommend real butternut squash?
I have not wormed him. The best exotic vets I've found are in Chicago which is 3 hours away from where I am at school (45 minutes from home) but I'll see if I can find one closer and I'll take him in asap. Thanks!

eta: I found one that is only 45 minutes away but I called and asked if they have experience with Russian tortoises and she was like "Umm I'm not sure..." so I asked if they would be able to check my tortoise for worms and she was like "Yes what day do you want to come in?" I think I'm going to keep looking!
I found 3 good exotic vets 10-15 minutes away from my home. I'm not going home for another month though so I'll probably want to find one closer.

 

[Meg90]

You can try the babyfood, its basically the same thing, just more watered down. Butternut is a "natural" wormer so to speak. You could try that for a week, and then take him in if the problem persists.

Its concerning to only have a 1g gain a week I think, especially as he gets older. I'm so impressed that you've kept on eye on his gain. For a first time owner, that's great.

Since you caught this NOW instead of when he's 8 months old, I think he will be gaining and growing normally within weeks. I just don't think I would chalk it up to slow growing.

Oh, and I feed little Novalee twice a day. She sits on her tile when she's hungry. That lets me know that she wants the food goddess to reward her.

If he's demonstrating behaviors that tell you he's hungry, I would feed him whenever he does (to a point, of course)

I think babies need the nourishment. All they do is grow.

 

[Yvonne G]

Another thing to consider. Danny (our resident go-to guy) soaks all his babies in bird vitamin water. I think he says he drops a couple drops in every soak. I'm not sure I'm remembering the correct name of the vitamins, but 8 in 1 rings a bell.

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

The name of the stuff I use is Vitasol. I soak all my babies in it. I agree with Meg in that I also feed twice a day. I have always picked up all the food only to see the babies munching away on the dried up old crackling stuff I just missed laying there. Once I saw that I stopped picking up the food after 20 minutes. I leave the food until the next feeding time, then I clean up the old stuff and add new.

I do agree that he seems to be growing very slowly, but now that I have said that DON'T go getting all obsessive on me. All animals grow at their own rate. You need to figure out why he isn't growing.

Butternut squash does nothing for parasites. (sorry Meg). I had to find out from personal experience. For the squash to work it needs to have it's seeds ground up and fed. It's the seeds that actually do the worming. So I'd be asking the Doc for a wormer...

 

[Meg90]

Interesting. Do you think if you cooked the squash whole and then food processed the seeds and all---it would work?

 

[ChiKat]

I have noticed that he's slightly bigger. I wish I had done the outline drawing when I first got him!! I'll start that asap!

 

[tortoisenerd]

So cute! Looks kinda like my Trevor with the green coloring rather strongly.

I think that since the tort is so young and growing slower, I would either increase the amount of food (if the tort finishes all you feed now), feed twice a day, etc. Just starting out I let my little guy eat as much as he wanted. Now that he's a year and growing well, maybe a tad chubby, I feed a more set amount. Mazuri is also a more high calorie food if you feel comfortable with using that as a supplement.

I think you should get him a fecal test. As long as the vet tech is trained in how to do the fecal float properly and identify parasites, and that is all you are interested in getting at the vets (you can just drop off a sample), it doesn't matter if they specialize in tortoises. I have been told that all torts have a small amount of a few parasites on average, even captive bred (from their mother), it's only when they get out of hand the owners are told they test positive (and then get treated). I'd get a fecal test for the tort, then a follow up in 3 months to catch anything that got missed because of the parasite life cycles, and then a yearly test.

It's also a good idea to have the tort established at a vet so in case of an emergency you can take it in. A tort can have a mild to moderate case of parasites without affecting its appearance, appetite, behavior, etc. I personally don't agree in treating a tort unless it's known they have something (ie. don't worm them unless they have worms). Other people will definitely disagree with me though. For tort owners with one tort, it's not as much of a cost issue. I think of my vet bills as an investment in Trevor's health and long life.

I record weight and SCL weekly and graph it in Excel. As long as you are consistent, it's a personal preference how you do it. My vet loved that I brought in Trevor's measurements for his chart. Trevor gained on average 3 grams a week at Nelson's age. He's already had a coccidia and is now being treated for pinworms. So much for a captive bred tort having fewer parasites! As long as Nelson is having slow and steady growth, I don't think you should push the growth thing too much. Slow growth is better than too fast!

You can also check him on the hatching Jackson Ratio chart (only to be used for Russians):

Best wishes.

 

[Meg90]

See, I am not sure that he has grown much, SCL wise, but you should start measuring him monthly to make sure. With babies, you can really see the new growth between the scutes. Take a look at this thread: Novalee is growing!

You can clearly see the new growth in between all her scutes. I don't see much of that with Nelson yet....But I'm sure once his feeding is all straightened out, he'll grow like a weed.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I see the new growth, Meg. Looks just like Trevor's growth. Not too much less actually. Maybe it is more faint for Russians than Greeks?

 

[ChiKat]

I weighed Nelson today and he was 50 grams!! He has definitely been eating more, and he will walk over to his tile to let me know when he's hungry. He also seems more active, so maybe I wasn't feeding him enough- in which case I feel TERRIBLE!!
He's always awake now when it's time for breakfast, whereas before sometimes I wouldn't see him all day (granted I would be in class for a few hours)

 

[Meg90]

Aww! I'm so happy for you two! He'll be growing in no time! Novalee was 52g on her 3 month bday, little piggy. Sometimes I have to say no to her, and you're right, it makes you feel terrible!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Katie, I think that you need to get a fecal done on him.
I would feed him twice a day, a small to medium handful, and I would leave the food laying there feeding to feeding, I pick up the old food as I put down the fresh stuff. I believe in feeding the same time, the same way, everyday. I soak my guys and then I plop them down in front of the food. Every time I walk by I look to see what they are doing and how the food looks. Sometimes the food is all gone and the babies are walking back and forth looking up at me, so I throw a handful of tort salad at them or sometimes I give them cooked squash (so I can see baby face squashes), or grated zucchini. I give them a treat of some kind everyday.
Russian tortoises aren't fast growers like Sulcata. But if you're really concerned, get a fecal done. Then over feed a variety of food for a while. As long as he's active and eating and pooping and you believe him to be healthy just relax and enjoy him. He really is beautiful and I'd have to think by everything you've said, there's nothing wrong with him...he's just growing slow and there's nothing wrong with that.
You guys crack me up with all the records you keep on your babies. I have 27 turtles and tortoises and I've not weighed a one. Way back when my sister was teaching me all the stuff she did, she said that if you picked one up he should feel heavy like holding a rock. So that's how I have always done, I pick one up and make a judgment about how he feels, light? Or not???
I guess using a scale is a little more professional but I bet I can hold a tortoise and come within a few ounces of his correct weight...

 

[ChiKat]

Thanks Maggie, I'm just a paranoid first-time parent I don't want to do anything wrong!
I really think it's possible that I wasn't feeding him enough. I've already noticed that he's been more active and awake longer since I started feeding him a little more.

I'm definitely going to get a fecal done. Do you think I should try to find a vet around here that will do it, or can I wait a few weeks until I'm home? There are great vets in my hometown but I haven't found any nearby at school.
I wouldn't use a scale if I was an expert like you, but I would have noo idea what Nelson weighed, or if he was gaining, if I didn't weigh him

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I am not an expert. I just have a little experience is all. Yes you can wait to get home if you want...but getting a fecal done by any Vet close to you would work as well...bugs is bugs and most Vets tech's can do a decent fecal, you don't need a reptile Vet for that...but it sounds like he is eating more...feeding him more is good...

 

[ChiKat]

Okay well I'm going home in November so I'll probably wait until then for the fecal, especially since he's eating more and is more active lately.
I'm moving back home permanently in December so I would like to have him set up at a vet's office at home anyways so he's in their system.

 

[Crazy1]

Hi Katie, I have a Greek that is smaller than most, she is active and eats just not lots. I do keep a close eye on her and she has been dewormed so no bugs. I also soak mine in the same liquid bird vits as Maggie and Yvonne, Vita Sol by 8 in 1. I have found suggestions on the net that say they can lose or not have specific bacteria in their guts that allow them to digest food and get the nutrients out of them like they should and in that case you would give benabac. Its kindof like us eating yogurt. I just started her on it so we will see. Also the Jackson Ratio is for all Testudo's including:
graeca,
anamurensis
armeniaca
cyrenicae24
graeca
ibera
nabeulensis
nikolskii
soussensis25
terrestris26
zarudnyi
Hermanni
boettgeri,
hermanni.
horsfieldii
kazakhstanica
horsfieldii
rustamovi
kleinmanni
marginata
weissingeri
werneri27