Habitat drawing

[kirbybirby]

The only thing I have so far is the large black container. Obviously it'll be bigger than the one in the picture and everything will be more spaced out. But I just wanted to do a rough drawing to see if I'm even close on the setup.

Let me know what you think and excuse my drawing skills

 

[Morty the Torty]

The only thing I have so far is the large black container. Obviously it'll be bigger than the one in the picture and everything will be more spaced out. But I just wanted to do a rough drawing to see if I'm even close on the setup.

Let me know what you think and excuse my drawing skills

I'm intrigued by your "hay under the basking light", will this help to raise the temp under the light? Meaning will it feel warmer for them than the coco coir?

 

[kirbybirby]

The only thing I have so far is the large black container. Obviously it'll be bigger than the one in the picture and everything will be more spaced out. But I just wanted to do a rough drawing to see if I'm even close on the setup.

Let me know what you think and excuse my drawing skills

I'm intrigued by your "hay under the basking light", will this help to raise the temp under the light? Meaning will it feel warmer for them than the coco coir?

Well, I use hay for my bunny, who is outside. And, especially in the winter, it keeps him super warm. So why not use it for my RT? I also don't know what else I could put under there I thought of putting a hard surface under the basking spot but I don't really know what to use so we'll see how the hay works.

 

[AnthonyC]

Looks good, but I think you're going to catch some flack over the coil light. I have no experience with them whatsoever, but I know a lot of people feel that they are harmful to a tortoises eyes. Good luck w/the build!

 

[kirbybirby]

Looks good, but I think you're going to catch some flack over the coil light. I have no experience with them whatsoever, but I know a lot of people feel that they are harmful to a tortoises eyes. Good luck w/the build!

Yeah, I read that somewhere. I wonder why that is? what else can I use? I can't go all into making a hood for a customized turtle table just to put a fluorescent tube thing in there. Would this one be okay? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002AQDJK/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

 

[Tom]

I would not use the sand, the hay, or the coil bulb.

I like a piece or slate or something similar under my basking lights. Makes it easier to check temps and it helps wear down the nails too.

Powersuns are great.

What species and what age are we talking about? Where are you?

 

[kirbybirby]

I would not use the sand, the hay, or the coil bulb.

I like a piece or slate or something similar under my basking lights. Makes it easier to check temps and it helps wear down the nails too.

Powersuns are great.

What species and what age are we talking about? Where are you?

Okay cool I'll plan on getting that new bulb... hopefully I'll be able to take my other one back... if not then I'm kind of screwed. And I'll try the slate then. Why not sand?

I'm getting a Russian Tortoise and whatever age they are at Petsmart. (not a hatchling). I am in Pennsylvania.

 

[Tom]

The hay will mold with the damp substrate.
The sand is an impaction risk and can sometimes irritate the skin or eyes. Talk to any vet who has seen a lot of tortoises and ask them about sand impaction.

The UV bulb is a subject I have been re-evaluating lately. I've never had, or personally seen, any problems with the MVBs, but I have seen lots of problems with the coil bulbs. The thing is, I question how much we really need the artificial "UV" bulbs at all. Kristina is one of our mods. She lives in MI (frozen winters) and uses NO artificial UV bulbs at all. Her torts of several species, spend most of the summer outside getting natural sunshine and then spend the winter indoors under regular incandescent bulbs for heat. She has ZERO problems with this method. So when I consider people like me in sunny So Cal or some of our AZ, FL or TX members who get year round sun, do we really NEED artificial UV bulbs, and their associated costs and potential dangers, at all? When considering some of the Testudo species that are normally hibernated every year, they seem even less necessary. (BTW, I would not hibernate yours the first year, but if all goes well, you might consider it for next year.) Just throwing that out there... sharing my thoughts on the matter...

 

[kirbybirby]

The hay will mold with the damp substrate.
The sand is an impaction risk and can sometimes irritate the skin or eyes. Talk to any vet who has seen a lot of tortoises and ask them about sand impaction.

The UV bulb is a subject I have been re-evaluating lately. I've never had, or personally seen, any problems with the MVBs, but I have seen lots of problems with the coil bulbs. The thing is, I question how much we really need the artificial "UV" bulbs at all. Kristina is one of our mods. She lives in MI (frozen winters) and uses NO artificial UV bulbs at all. Her torts of several species, spend most of the summer outside getting natural sunshine and then spend the winter indoors under regular incandescent bulbs for heat. She has ZERO problems with this method. So when I consider people like me in sunny So Cal or some of our AZ, FL or TX members who get year round sun, do we really NEED artificial UV bulbs, and their associated costs and potential dangers, at all? When considering some of the Testudo species that are normally hibernated every year, they seem even less necessary. (BTW, I would not hibernate yours the first year, but if all goes well, you might consider it for next year.) Just throwing that out there... sharing my thoughts on the matter...

Well, from my understanding, the UV lights are needed for calcium and all that. And I know there are risks with the lights but I live in Pennsylvania and it is becoming winter now. You're telling me I do not need any type of UV light? I think I'm just gonna get that powersun one anyways.

And what did you mean by "I would not hibernate yours the first year"? Do I literally have to hibernate him? Won't he do that himself? Sorry, but I'm new to the tortoise thing and I need to do my research ahead of time.

 

[laramie]

Looks good, but I think you're going to catch some flack over the coil light. I have no experience with them whatsoever, but I know a lot of people feel that they are harmful to a tortoises eyes. Good luck w/the build!

I agree with AnthonyC, looks good !

 

[Tom]

Well, from my understanding, the UV lights are needed for calcium and all that. And I know there are risks with the lights but I live in Pennsylvania and it is becoming winter now. You're telling me I do not need any type of UV light? I think I'm just gonna get that powersun one anyways.

And what did you mean by "I would not hibernate yours the first year"? Do I literally have to hibernate him? Won't he do that himself? Sorry, but I'm new to the tortoise thing and I need to do my research ahead of time.

The conventional wisdom states that tortoises housed indoors need a source of UV light of the correct wavelength in order to convert vitamin D2 into D3. D3 is necessary for the body to be able to use calcium. Of course outdoors, the sun provides these UV rays. I am re-evaluating this position based on Kristina's and other experiences. Do we really need artificial UV? Some think we do. I don't know...

Having said all of that, a MVB will do no harm and could be very beneficial. At this time, I still recommend them, but I'm keeping an open mind and I'm ready and willing to learn more about the subject.

Hibernating a captive tortoise is not automatic. Certain precautions must be taken. It is more of a process than an event. Even a very large outdoor pen cannot simulate the wild close enough to require no effort on the part of the keeper. Here is a thread discussing it:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Hibernation-for-Testudo#axzz1diQejAu3

 

[Laura]

if you have light 14 hours a day and its warm enough.. he probably wont hibernate.. but it temps drop and the lights are out or not on long enough to simulate summer time... he will get sleepy, stop eating and go night night...
Russians love to explore and escape. make sure the walls are taller then he is long and remember they will streatch and stand on tip toe to get over a wall. the climb very well!

 

[kirbybirby]

if you have light 14 hours a day and its warm enough.. he probably wont hibernate.. but it temps drop and the lights are out or not on long enough to simulate summer time... he will get sleepy, stop eating and go night night...
Russians love to explore and escape. make sure the walls are taller then he is long and remember they will streatch and stand on tip toe to get over a wall. the climb very well!

What happens if they don't hibernate?

 

[lynnedit]

They don't need to hibernate at all to thrive. Some like to, it works for them, but it is certainly not recommended within the first year until you know your tort is healthy. Would not give that topic much more thought now.
You can use Timothy or Orchard hay in the cool, dry side of the enclosure, under/in a hide. Change it weekly. Or you can use Aspen, which won't rot. More for burrowing, not basking.
With your set up, I would indeed use the PowerSun 100w MVB for UV and heat. Coil lights are not very popular, some concerns at least with the old ones, with eye damage. Get a light fixture with a ceramic base like this: http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/E...Qcm9kdWN0Q2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6ODoiTGlnaHRpbmciO30=
and hang so it faces straight down. They sell reptile ZooMed lamp stands that work well. Put that on the 'warm'/basking side. You can use cypress mulch under it, or a piece of slate or tile (you can get tile at places like Home Depot, individually). With this bulb, you may only need one light/heat source if your house does not fall below 60-65 at night.
Move the water dish near the heat source so it warms it up too.
Make sure you get a good thermometer like;
http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=322. It has a wire probe you can move around. YOu can usually find these in Home Depot too.
Also a good site for getting seeds for Russian torts to sprout your own.

 

[kirbybirby]

They don't need to hibernate at all to thrive. Some like to, it works for them, but it is certainly not recommended within the first year until you know your tort is healthy. Would not give that topic much more thought now.
You can use Timothy or Orchard hay in the cool, dry side of the enclosure, under/in a hide. Change it weekly. Or you can use Aspen, which won't rot. More for burrowing, not basking.
With your set up, I would indeed use the PowerSun 100w MVB for UV and heat. Coil lights are not very popular, some concerns at least with the old ones, with eye damage. Get a light fixture with a ceramic base like this: http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/E...Qcm9kdWN0Q2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6ODoiTGlnaHRpbmciO30=
and hang so it faces straight down. They sell reptile ZooMed lamp stands that work well. Put that on the 'warm'/basking side. You can use cypress mulch under it, or a piece of slate or tile (you can get tile at places like Home Depot, individually). With this bulb, you may only need one light/heat source if your house does not fall below 60-65 at night.
Move the water dish near the heat source so it warms it up too.
Make sure you get a good thermometer like;
http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=322. It has a wire probe you can move around. YOu can usually find these in Home Depot too.
Also a good site for getting seeds for Russian torts to sprout your own.

Good to know, about the hibernation. I REALLY want one of these guys, they're adorable and seem so much nicer than aquatic ones (well, my Red Sliders for example).

And, I conveniently found a large light fixture at a goodwill this evening ($5). Hopefully it'll do the job. I attached pictures of it. Will that do the job? I can make my own stand thing so it sits up straight. I can't see spending $20 on something that's so easy to make.

 

[zesty_17]

The only thing I have so far is the large black container. Obviously it'll be bigger than the one in the picture and everything will be more spaced out. But I just wanted to do a rough drawing to see if I'm even close on the setup.

Let me know what you think and excuse my drawing skills

I'm intrigued by your "hay under the basking light", will this help to raise the temp under the light? Meaning will it feel warmer for them than the coco coir?

Well, I use hay for my bunny, who is outside. And, especially in the winter, it keeps him super warm. So why not use it for my RT? I also don't know what else I could put under there I thought of putting a hard surface under the basking spot but I don't really know what to use so we'll see how the hay works.

keep in mind that the body heat your tortoise gets will be coming from the heat source, not the hay. Because tort's dont generate body heat like you and i (and the bunny) hay used as a blanket or insulation usually doesnt do much good. If you are using it as a soft bedding or midnight snack then it is different. I have been fighting this one in zoos for years... blankets for torts dont work... even ones made out of hay.

 

[Tom]

That fixture is no good. You need one with a ceramic base to handle the heat generated by these reptile bulbs for 12-14 hours a day. Those plastic type ones always fail eventually and could actually start a fire. I have found them smoldering many times in the past, not to mention they will fry your expensive bulb. Ceramic based fixtures can be found at any hardware store for around $12.

 

[kirbybirby]

That fixture is no good. You need one with a ceramic base to handle the heat generated by these reptile bulbs for 12-14 hours a day. Those plastic type ones always fail eventually and could actually start a fire. I have found them smoldering many times in the past, not to mention they will fry your expensive bulb. Ceramic based fixtures can be found at any hardware store for around $12.

Damn..... I REALLY didn't wanna spend $12 on a light fixture. It;s not plastic by the way. It's seems like aluminum. Oh well, I'll just save the handy little holder that's attached to it.

What about this one. It seems to be ceramic. (pictures attached) Only bad thing is, the on/off switch sticks all the time.

 

[zesty_17]

That fixture is no good. You need one with a ceramic base to handle the heat generated by these reptile bulbs for 12-14 hours a day. Those plastic type ones always fail eventually and could actually start a fire. I have found them smoldering many times in the past, not to mention they will fry your expensive bulb. Ceramic based fixtures can be found at any hardware store for around $12.

i 2nd the ceramic heaters, they also last a long time.

 

[Tom]

We are not talking about the dome. We are talking about the actual part that you screw the bulb into. The part that the cord sticks out of. That narrow dome is no good for MVBs. It will cook them prematurely. And finally, those clamps are an accident waiting to happen. They always fail, unless you find a way to permanently attach them. It is also important for your fixture to point straight down, not at an angle. You'll also need the ability to adjust the fixture up or down to get your basking temps right.