Growing a smooth baby... LOTS OF PICS

[nikki0601]

Hey guys, So my Sully is growing very well, I think he is growing nice and smooth but I have nothing but pics on the PC to compare to so would like to have your opinions as well, how is he looking?

 

[Tom]

Looking good so far.

 

[torti]

He's beautiful =)

 

[DeanS]

Very nice!

 

[nikki0601]

Thanks.. Special thanks to Tom, I know Sully is thankful, before I read toms post on raising Sulcata babies I had read to put them on dry hay and no water bowl etc, and thats exactly what I was gonna do, lol, wonder what he would look like then...

 

[Tom]

Figuring out and ending pyramiding has been an obsession of mine for nearly 20 years. I still have a long way to go. Seeing pics of smooth babies and juveniles just thrills me to no end. I really think I might enjoy these smooth babies even MORE than the people who own and care for them.

I raised a lot of eyebrows and ruffled more than a few feathers when I started on this forum and came in like "gangbusters" (Maggie's quote). I was ranting and raving about pyramiding and humidity and all of this stuff. It was, and still is (unfortunately), against the grain and against "the establishment". Over the last couple of years, there have been more and more pics of smooth sulcatas. People on this forum have tried it, it works, and the word is getting out. Can't argue with 1000's of pics of smooth healthy sulcatas.

Thanks to you and all who post their pics. Together, we are slowly making the world better for tortoises.

... okay. End of sappy, nostalgic rant.

 

[JoesMum]

That's one one good looking boy!

 

[dmmj]

Nice looking tort

 

[nikki0601]

Tom your post on raising Sulcatas was the best thing I read in all the months I spent preparing from my Sully, it was a god send.. I had prepped his home for his arrival and changed it many many times because the info I had just didnt feel right, at one point I had a tort table full of timothy hay, no water dish etc, I felt like I was going to set my tort table on fire, the habitat was so dry, but thats what every one said, keep em in dry hot conditions, like the dessert, luckily for some reason I didnt like the setup no matter who was saying it was right, it didnt seem right, then I stumbled upon your post and I was like ” Thats how I am doing it!!” Lol, it just made sense, although I had no experience to compare it to, I knew your way was right, I had second guessed every other site until your post, I am so glad I found it and I will always refer any keeper to that post, I tell em I have seen first hand, there is no other way to do it.. Not only does your method help dramatically in raising a smooth tort but the tort is happy, warm and hydrated, I can definitely bet if we all kept our babies this way, not only would we have a world of smooth Sullys but I bet the number of babies who pass from dehydration or related illness would be much much slimmer

 

[cemmons12]

Very nice looking tort!

 

[Tom]

Tom your post on raising Sulcatas was the best thing I read in all the months I spent preparing from my Sully, it was a god send.. I had prepped his home for his arrival and changed it many many times because the info I had just didnt feel right, at one point I had a tort table full of timothy hay, no water dish etc, I felt like I was going to set my tort table on fire, the habitat was so dry, but thats what every one said, keep em in dry hot conditions, like the dessert, luckily for some reason I didnt like the setup no matter who was saying it was right, it didnt seem right, then I stumbled upon your post and I was like ” Thats how I am doing it!!” Lol, it just made sense, although I had no experience to compare it to, I knew your way was right, I had second guessed every other site until your post, I am so glad I found it and I will always refer any keeper to that post, I tell em I have seen first hand, there is no other way to do it.. Not only does your method help dramatically in raising a smooth tort but the tort is happy, warm and hydrated, I can definitely bet if we all kept our babies this way, not only would we have a world of smooth Sullys but I bet the number of babies who pass from dehydration or related illness would be much much slimmer

You know the funniest thing about the whole thing is that my biggest critics have all complained about how "unnatural" it is. There is a perception of how it happens in the wild, or should I say MIS-perception. I defended my actions and ideas with two premises.
1. No one really knows what happens in the wild. It is all speculation.
2. What that leaves us with is: What works in captivity and what does NOT. Frankly, my method (or many variations of it) works in captivity and dry does not.

The funny part is that now that I am learning about what really goes on IN AFRICA from an African tortoise researcher, it turns out that my way is COMPLETELY "natural", and the dry routine is not. At least in Seneagal, sulcatas hatch in the hot, rainy, humid season and they hatch in marshes. Before I knew this, I called my methods "swampy" and I joked that I was making an "aquatic morph" sulcata. Turns out my joke was reality. So when someone asks, "Who soaks them everyday in nature?" My answer is now, "Mother. Mother Nature". They hatch in wetlands and get rained on all day for the first few months.

Mark my words, things are going to change in the next few years. Tomas is working on a book and lots of keepers, including those here on TFO, are all comparing notes and progressing.

 

[nikki0601]

You need to write a book Tom, its half written already, u have got tons of info, experiments, experience and u add to that daily, write a book, I'd buy it for sure

 

[JLSchmittou]

Sully looks fantastic, girl!!! Don't change a thing!!!!

And Tom does kind of Rock.

 

[Tom]

Thanks ladies. I don't feel I have enough experience or credibility to write a book yet, plus there are just too many unanswered question. Somewhere down the road I do plan on it though.

 

[nikki0601]

With the info I've seen of yours, your experiments, hands on experience of what, 20, 25 years? 21 years? With all that your book is nearly written, call it volume 1, now u working on volume II

 

[Tom]

Well I feel like have have more to learn first, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

[Linzbragg]

You know the funniest thing about the whole thing is that my biggest critics have all complained about how "unnatural" it is. There is a perception of how it happens in the wild, or should I say MIS-perception. I defended my actions and ideas with two premises.
1. No one really knows what happens in the wild. It is all speculation.
2. What that leaves us with is: What works in captivity and what does NOT. Frankly, my method (or many variations of it) works in captivity and dry does not.

The funny part is that now that I am learning about what really goes on IN AFRICA from an African tortoise researcher, it turns out that my way is COMPLETELY "natural", and the dry routine is not. At least in Seneagal, sulcatas hatch in the hot, rainy, humid season and they hatch in marshes. Before I knew this, I called my methods "swampy" and I joked that I was making an "aquatic morph" sulcata. Turns out my joke was reality. So when someone asks, "Who soaks them everyday in nature?" My answer is now, "Mother. Mother Nature". They hatch in wetlands and get rained on all day for the first few months.

Mark my words, things are going to change in the next few years. Tomas is working on a book and lots of keepers, including those here on TFO, are all comparing notes and progressing.

I'm with nikki. Your suggestions on how to raise a young sully were the first I read that actually made sense. I got Franklin in a cage with timothy hay and water and unfortunately didn't get to do any research until the moment I got him. Luckily I came to this forum and was able to change my set up in the first few days and hopefully make the rest of Franklin's life better than his first yr and cover up any effects of possible pyramiding.

 

[aco43]

Have been catching up on the forum since acquiring our two sully's at 13 weeks old. We have had them for about 6 weeks now so they must be pushing 5 months old.

We have taken advice both from information provided on this forum and the breeder we purchased them from. I have asked further advice from reptile sellers and was quite shocked when all of them at different times and in different locations got very upset when we said we needed to keep the humidity up etc to prevent dehydration. "They live in the desert you know!" has been the usual response.

That aside we have been soaking them 4 or 5 times a week and now find they are emptying their water bowl every day.

I think Toms advice mirrors that of the breeder we got them from and am grateful that I found it on the forum.

I've attached a few pics, they look ok to us but always nice to get second opinions

















Hope the pics worked!
Richard

---

Doesn't look like the pics worked from my phone, I'll try and upload them later

 

[dds7155]

He's Beatiful , i raised 2 sulcata about 25 years ago, when they got so big ,i gave them to my friend in flordia that has 35 acres ,then i thought food caused the pyramiding , i see you a nurse , thats a great field ,my daughter is one also, she has a year before she a cfnp,,( is that right?)

 

[Floof]

Sully is looking great!!

I'm glad I'm not the only one that always second-guessed the "dry, dry, dry" idea. Refusing an animal water has just never sat well with me... The way I look at it, if the animal feels they need water, they should be able to get a drink whenever they want!!! They aren't going to drink themselves to death, that's for sure! So, same here, when I started seeing the ideas here talking about humidity and hydration for Sullies and Leos, it just clicked. So much more sensible than dry.

I worked at a pet store for almost a year, where the store owner was 100% convinced that too much moisture would give Sulcatas and Leopards renal failure. He did admit that too little could cause it, too, and said that was why he kept a small water dish with his hatchlings... But they were still on alfalfa pellets and kept super dry, and he still refused to offer the 40 lb'ers that roam the store water more than once a week (mind you, those two would DRAIN a 2-3 gal waterer once a week and then some, which you think would give them a clue!!). Luckily, I managed to change his thinking at least a little on hatchlings... He let me set up a juvie Sulcata semi-humid when I started working there, and at least tells customers there's "debate" on which is right and to "do a lot of reading and decide for yourselves" (which is a WHOLE lot better than "They have to be kept dry or they'll DIE!"), but it still took until I'd worked there for 6 months for him to start leaving the water down for the adult through the week. Even then it would only be a few days at a time, because one of the managers was still entirely convinced it was bad for him and would take away the water (the scary part is, this one is training to be a reptile vet... shudder!!!).

I must say, I'm so very glad all this stuff about humidity, hydration, etc started being pursued and tested before I got my Leopard tort. I'm sure there's no way he'd be the happy, healthy, growing tortie he is now if it weren't for this style of care. He was lethargic and some 45 grams at 2 years old when I got him, and I don't think he would have improved had I decided to keep him dry. But, I didn't, and now he's nearly tripled in size, eats like a horse, and rounds his 3' viv so many times in a day, I'm tempted to move him up to a 4' already! (Not to mention, I'm constantly digging up and changing out his water, because he's in and out of it so much... Lol!)