Federal and State Exotic Reptile, Amphibian And Mammal Banning

[wellington]

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Just going to address one part of all this talk, the "what if" we have to pass some sort of test our knowledge and our housing abilities. Just who gets to play god with what is the "right way" and what is the "wrong way"? Just look around this very forum, where folks atleast have a common interest and knowledge in tortoises. How often can we even agree as to what the basics should be? I can tell you how often, never. We each have our own way and what works for us. If even a closed group like this has such wide variances in ideas, how do we ever hope those on the outside could come to a workable plan?

It is human AND animal nature to have your own opinions, it's not just the reptile community. Think of one organization or government that all agree on all subjects.

If your refering to USDA when speaking of "tests" it's along the same lines. The individual inspector sometimes interprets things differently. One inspector says
"looks great keep up the good work" while the next one writes a bunch of "fix it
tickets".

I learn a great deal from these forums but would never allow my ego to keep us from coming up with a plan of action.
Heck draw senior member names from a hat to start with.

No matter what they do. It will never, ever make everyone happy. It is just not possible. The best we can hope for. That reptile/animal knowledge people get involved and have input into what ever is written into the laws.

 

[wildak]

No disrespect to anyone but how did we get onto dogs?

 

[wellington]

I want to breed New Guinea Singing Dogs...

Okay. Do it before someone takes me up on the breeder licensing fee. Do it right and be one of the good breeders . There are very few good breeders, a whole bunch of bad

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

You also hit the nail on the head; as a whole, the herp community has done a horrible job policing itself. Now that someone else thinks they have to, everyone is up in arms. Too little, too late.

I could'nt disagree more. It's never too late, we just need organization such as the very extremists trying to take our rights away. I'm not saying I know exactly what to do.

Maybe each of the larger reptile forums can elect representatives to speak on our behalf and/or species. We would all have to pitch in for air fair, room and board etc. (or just those who are serious about this). Maybe something like different levels of donations as members???? Fund raising, T-shirts etc.

Divide the country in to Zones (for the lack of a better word) like East of the Mississippi could be divided into 3-4 zones being the higher populations and several more zones out West. Each zone would have a rep from each forum involved.

Each rep. would study only their zone. State Laws, Problem species, potential risks of introduced species in their zone etc. etc.

All reps from all the forums in said zone would meet quarterly and discuss matters at hand and a course of action. All zone reports and notes then can be reviewed by any contributing member ( in order to TRY to keep agendas away from those opposing forces) Each zone will then elect a speaker or President (an attorney would be great).

I know it's not perfect so try not to bash me too much. I just now came up with the idea. The big issue would be funding but I'm sure we could talk to breeders, pet stores, supply chains and so on.

The first step is to get other forums on board with this or similar ideas.

Not sure on the zoning idea, but there IS a lobby group that has been fighting for our rights as herpers since 2008: the United States Association of Reptile Keepers (www.USARK.org). The president, Andrew Wyatt, already implemented reasonable care and husbandry guidelines for large constrictors in North Carolina, and with USARK and many reptile industry leaders, has sought to try and push for this type of statutes on the state level and federal. Regrettably, they are often opposed.

Once again, it is discouraging how many herpers I come across who have no idea USARK even exists.

 

[wildak]

I would pay to be a licensed breeder if that's what it takes. And likely will come to that, the problem being in some of the by laws it states you have to have already been a licensed breeder for like 2 years before the law was inacted. You can't wait until after the law is passed banning animals and then try to get the license. What a bunch of .......Dog crap..lol

 

[wellington]

No disrespect to anyone but how did we get onto dogs?

Sorry, not really sure. I think I was including them with the ban of pit bulls etc and some how got carried away, oops. I did try to get back on track with my second to last post. Again not real sure, but sorry.

 

[wildak]

I know of USARK but we can't rely on just one or two organizations. We need more voices. ( like all the ones in my head lol).

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The reptile community needs a celebrity spokesperson. Anyone here a celebrity ?

 

[JacksonR]

We don't need lobbying. We just need to collectively ignore those laws.

I won't be getting a license for singing dog breeding...lol

 

[wildak]

Wow here's another strike against exotics http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...ian-rats-invading-florida-keys-210522485.html

Giant African 9 pound rats released in Florida by an "exotic animal breeder" are breeding in the wild.

How convenient, almost seems planned ... A Peta rat plant. lol Hell maybe they only eat pythons.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

I know of USARK but we can't rely on just one or two organizations. We need more voices. ( like all the ones in my head lol).

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I agree, but too many are still ignorant, or completely discount what USARK has accomplished. Without them, bill S.373 would have been passed back 2009, which would have banned ALL species of pythons, including the popular, diminutive ball python that so many are familiar with. Many criticize USARK and do not support them at all, but at the same time, NO ONE has really stepped up and offered an alternative. No one has done better, so to speak.

Like I said, I do agree that we need more voices. People need to get off their butts (figuratively and literally), stay up to date on current events, educate themselves on the facts and stand united against these draconian legislative measures we face. I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's a lot of reptile keepers out there that think USARK and PIJAC will do all the work for you, and you're probably safe anyway because you keep geckos and tortoises, and you don't keep "any of those dangerous species like big snakes and monitor lizards like they show on Animal Planet." Quite simply, you are mistaken. This started with snakes, but it will not end with snakes.

There IS a need for lobbying. We have to be able to fight these politicians with facts on their own homefield. Simply pissing and moaning about this stuff on Facebook and forums doesn't accomplish anything. That's why USARK is important. Until someone else steps up to bat and does one better, they and PIJAC are the best we've got and they deserve our support.

The reptile community needs a celebrity spokesperson. Anyone here a celebrity ?

I'm not opposed to this, and I agree it may help, but similar to your own argument about lobby groups, simply having a celebrity poster child isn't going to be the begin-all,end-all solution to our issues. [I'm not saying you think it is, but I have heard this argument before, that having a famous person on our side will solve all our problems!]

That said, Slash of Velvet Revolver has always been an avid reptile lover. Betty White loves reptiles, too, as well as recently voiced her opposition to PETA and HSUS. Last year, Leonardo Dicaprio purchased a sulcata tortoise at the NARBC show in Chicago. Rumor has it he was actually very enthusiastic about his new pet and seemed very interested in getting into the "herp" hobby. Where this all leads, I don't know, but it is interesting to know...

 

[Tom]

FYI, Leonardo has been into reptiles for at least the last 15+ years. I did a photo shoot with him in the mid 90's, before he got really famous, and he brought his beardy along. His lizard took a huge smelly crap on one of the white pool lounge chairs that we were sitting on. We were at some multi-million dollar Hollywood Hills mansion and here's this 2" long big smelly turd sitting on the stark white pristine chair... He cleaned it up, but it was a funny moment. The photographer was an animal lover and if I remember correctly he included the lizard in some of the pics during Leo's shoot. At that time Leonardo was a young kid and still friendly and down to earth. I saw him again in Morocco while filming "Body of Lies", and he wouldn't even look at me, much less talk to me. I tried to ask him if he remembered that photo shoot and he wouldn't even look at me, much less talk to me. He just turned his back and walked away. Then he had his stunt man do all the work with the dogs...

Just saying, I think you might need someone different as a spokesperson...

 

[Jacqui]

That said, Slash of Velvet Revolver has always been an avid reptile lover. Betty White loves reptiles, too, as well as recently voiced her opposition to PETA and HSUS. Last year, Leonardo Dicaprio purchased a sulcata tortoise at the NARBC show in Chicago. Rumor has it he was actually very enthusiastic about his new pet and seemed very interested in getting into the "herp" hobby. Where this all leads, I don't know, but it is interesting to know...

Doesn't the celebrity actually need to be known to the mainstream community? That would leave off Slash, whomever this person may be. Betty would be great, but unfortunately she is getting up there in years. You heard Tom's opinion of Dicaprio. Seems like it would be harder to get a good celebrity behind the movement, then to just use that effort on the movement directly.

Something is really needed to motivate the small person (no David this is nothing to do with your height. ). I think there needs to be some how or some one to motivate the person with just one or ten "pets". I know for myself to get involved I really need an active hands on type role. It's my biggest complaint with TSA for example. I pay my dues, but have no real way to contribute to the cause, so I don't feel connected or actually needed.

 

[Tom]

I don't know what the solution here is, but it seems INSANE to me to argue for a proven corrupt, incompetent, ignorant, stupid, inept, bureaucratic government entity to step in and exercise MORE control over something they are completely ignorant about.

What happened to personal responsibility? How about we let everyone enjoy their freedom in a "free" country how they see fit, and only punish the negligent or irresponsible people for their mistakes? Now there's a concept...

If I'm stupid enough to buy a large python and then NOT house it correctly, I should be held liable for any damage it does. If on the other hand, I buy a large python, house it correctly, and it lives its whole life with out ever running amok, why do some people want the government intruding upon my property and into my reptile room?

The beauty is, we ALREADY have this wonderful system I speak of in place. All we have to do is....... NOTHING!

All adults are free to enjoy an alcoholic beverage in this country. If you behave stupidly or irresponsibly, you will be fined, sued, imprisoned, or otherwise suitably punished.

If you are going to make the case that after the fact it is too late, then your are basically saying that the world is too dangerous and we should all live in padded cells so nobody ever gets hurt. Life is dangerous. Life is a risk. Part of LIVING is navigating those risks every day. Cars kill more people than pet boa constrictors, by an enormous margin. Why aren't we clamoring for banning cars. If public safety is your goal in banning and regulating potentially dangerous animals, why don't we start with the most dangerous threats to public safety and work our way down? People's pet snakes and lizards are pretty far down the list... None of my snakes or lizards have ever hurt anyone. Anyone know of a single case of monitor lizard homicide? Last I checked my boa hadn't snuck into any cribs and swallowed any children either...

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

Doesn't the celebrity actually need to be known to the mainstream community? That would leave off Slash, whomever this person may be. Betty would be great, but unfortunately she is getting up there in years. You heard Tom's opinion of Dicaprio. Seems like it would be harder to get a good celebrity behind the movement, then to just use that effort on the movement directly.

I thought Slash was pretty well-known (shrugs), but I guess it's all relative, and I see your point. It all depends on what you grew up with, what you listen to, what you watch, etc. I have met people who have no idea what Star Wars or Star Trek is. On the flip side, I haven't picked up a People's Magazine in years and couldn't identify half of the well-known celebrities that are so-called "mainstream" right now.

I didn't know that about Leonardo. Its not like he was my first choice anyway, but I was just relaying internet chatter that I had about his attending the NARBC. Age aside, I still wouldn't mind having Betty White speaking out for us. For starters, she's a woman. I'm not trying to be sexist or anything, but for portraying a positive image for the herp hobby, having a sweet gutsy old lady like Betty holding a python around her neck is packs more punch than seeing a rock guitarist like Slash or a snobbish, controversial actor like Leo do the same. (BTW, she has done this on talk shows before...google to find the pics!)

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Just came across this. Had to share!!! Send this to all those stupid politicians!

 

[Tom]

Betty is AWESOME! Did a commercial shoot with her a few years ago and she is a truly wonderful human being in every way. Caring, considerate, intelligent, well spoken, graceful... just lovely to be around. She's one of my all time favorite celebrities that I have worked with.

 

[Jacqui]

Right now, we need to really work on how the mainstream public sees us. Snakes especially need to be worked past folks seeing them as evil, slimey, and huge monsters just waiting to attack our children and small pets. Good PR needs to be gotten when ever and how ever we can get it. Small children need to be educated on what snakes (and the rest of the reptiles) really are like and the benefits from having them around. Folks remember the bad PR and the horror stories, much more then they do the good things. It's those mental visuals folks have about reptiles, that makes them such easy marks for banning. So easy to use our very popular preconceived and deep rooted fears about reptiles and then to give those slight pushes with horror stories, to get the public all riled up against them.

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Age aside, I still wouldn't mind having Betty White speaking out for us. For starters, she's a woman. I'm not trying to be sexist or anything, but for portraying a positive image for the herp hobby, having a sweet gutsy old lady like Betty holding a python around her neck is packs more punch than seeing a rock guitarist like Slash or a snobbish, controversial actor like Leo do the same. (BTW, she has done this on talk shows before...google to find the pics!)

I agree. The age thing was more pointed towards she may unfortunately not be around for that much longer.

 

[Tom]

Right now, we need to really work on how the mainstream public sees us. Snakes especially need to be worked past folks seeing them as evil, slimey, and huge monsters just waiting to attack our children and small pets. Good PR needs to be gotten when ever and how ever we can get it. Small children need to be educated on what snakes (and the rest of the reptiles) really are like and the benefits from having them around. Folks remember the bad PR and the horror stories, much more then they do the good things. It's those mental visuals folks have about reptiles, that makes them such easy marks for banning. So easy to use our very popular preconceived and deep rooted fears about reptiles and then to give those slight pushes with horror stories, to get the public all riled up against them.

I have been doing my part on this since the 80's. First in the pet shops and since then I have done presentations for 1000's of school kids. Not to mention talking to 100's of people on the movie sets for the last 16 years... There was a huge shift in attitudes about reptiles in the early 90's. They went mainstream, but I haven't seen much happen since then. Well, nothing good anyway...

 

[tortadise]

I would love to help as much as I could. But being classified under 501(c)(3) and USFW confiscation accredited facility that kinda exempts me from being a "pet owner". My mom is a pretty well known doctor and I'm also working on writing a tortoise book through my moms book agency. I suppose we could all get input on it and put it out in a book and contact lots of media on the "people of America and wildlife loves". Hmmm that's a good book title.

I'm not a big fighter but I will NOT stand and have my animals banned. Because some beiarcratic money making moron thinks that a poison dart frog or redfoot tortoise is going to change anything in these states wild habitats. There may be reticent and African rocks living out in the Everglades but they won't last very long. It's the media making it seem like there taking over.

 

[Jacqui]

Now that I have saw what Slash looks like, you would have another problem with him. He looks like a hard rocker, motorcycle gang member, drug user image in the minds of so many folks, especially the older ones. It's those older folks your trying to get to change their minds remember.

(Please nobody take personal offense to my comments. Just reminding folks of the mainstream image a high percentage of the population holds, not giving my personal thoughts. Image is very important in something along these lines, even if they do not hold true in reality.)

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I have been doing my part on this since the 80's. First in the pet shops and since then I have done presentations for 1000's of school kids. Not to mention talking to 100's of people on the movie sets for the last 16 years... There was a huge shift in attitudes about reptiles in the early 90's. They went mainstream, but I haven't seen much happen since then. Well, nothing good anyway...

Aren't presentations for school kids awesome? I loved it. My children were great assets also, when giving talks to children.

 

[Madkins007]

(snip)

If I'm stupid enough to buy a large python and then NOT house it correctly, I should be held liable for any damage it does. If on the other hand, I buy a large python, house it correctly, and it lives its whole life with out ever running amok, why do some people want the government intruding upon my property and into my reptile room?

The beauty is, we ALREADY have this wonderful system I speak of in place. All we have to do is....... NOTHING!

All adults are free to enjoy an alcoholic beverage in this country. If you behave stupidly or irresponsibly, you will be fined, sued, imprisoned, or otherwise suitably punished.
(snip)

Cool! So when someone's pet (fill in the blank with a wide variety of animals, from dogs to cobras), or a drunk driver, or something like that kills someone, we automatically kill the keeper or driver or perpetrator!

Wait... that is not what happens in real life. Dang.

If I could trust the keeper of potentially dangerous animals to care for them the way someone like you would, I would not give this issue a second thought, but too many of the people buying these kinds of animals do not have the knowledge or resources to really do the job right, and right now, there is no process in place to do any sort of screening.

Believe me, I KNOW the government could screw this up, but after the number of dangerous animal attacks locally in the last several years, I don't think the way things are now is working either.