Enclosure--new but needs help.

[mckenzieg]

Hello!

So, my 10 month old Sulcata, Charli (sex ambiguous name ) finally ate some carrot baby food yesterday after not eating for almost 2 weeks. I had called a somewhat local rep vet after Charli hadn't eaten for a few days, and she reassured me that although sulcatas do not hibernate, they do slow down in the winter. A friend of mine who has a very large, female sulcata and lives in Arizona actually hibernates her every year. She assured me that I could just throw a blanket over the tank and that Charli didn't need to eat. Obviously, I just joined this forum because I didn't believe them. I know her sulcata has formed very well, but he was a rescue sulcata and as a hatchling, Charli needs the most help now to form a good body for when he's my friend's sulcata's age. Anyway, yesterday I went to the container store and bought him a bigger enclosure. I have the desire to make him a very nice tortoise shelf, but we are moving in 5 months and I'd like to build him something nice once we get to where we're going. I hope he's okay with waiting.

So here is what he's got going on, and please offer your help and advice for things you see as problematic/etc.

In the very last picture, you can see that i have a heating pad UNDER the tank. It WAS on the side of my glass tank, but doesn't work with plastic. IS THIS A BAD IDEA?

Any help helps! Thank you all.

P.S. what should he be eating right now (winter)? Where would I find hay? I planted pansie, spring greens, and there's some basil in there, though I know that basil shouldn't be fed to them all the time, though it's not bad for them. I'm going to keep trying things like pumpkin and baby food, though, and I'm sad because I live in Colorado, and don't have a yard, so I can only take him outside when it's nice out...and it's about to be winter.

THANK YOU ALL!

 

[moswen]

lots of people will tell you that undertank heating is not a good idea, as torts naturally get their heat from above & etc. i personally think it's fine and i do it, but i don't think it's very safe with the plastic, you could melt that. i think it even says that on the heat pad that you shouldn't put it on plastic. your pics are hard to see bc they're so small, but it looks nice from here!

sorry to tell your friend, but i think her sulcata needs better care than that. sulcata tortoises do not have the innate ability to go to sleep for 5 months and "hibernate" without the need for food. perhaps her sulcata can survive by not moving very much because tortoises do have the ability to live months without food, that's why all the species of giant tortoise are extinct now, bc sailors took them on their boats for fresh meat. please don't take any advice from this person lol! i'm glad you joined!!!!!

i tried to feed hay to my hatchlings too when i first joined, and i was told they don't need it and won't eat it (which was true for me!) but this is a great place to buy some seed that you can grow in charli's enclosure over the winter: www.sulcatafood.com i grow this in my sully's enclosure. a lot of people buy a "spring mix" from the grocery store to feed to their babies, but i prefer to make my own mix because a lot of those leaves are lettuce leaves... i buy mustard, collard, turnip, and dandelion greens, endive, escarole, chard, kale, you can do spinach every so often, a few mazuri pellets once a week, right now you can feed pumpkin, and opuntia. lots of opuntia! i buy my opuntia and mazuri from cory (spikethebest) on the forum, and now i'm growing some too. it might be a good idea to grow some with a sulcata. also it will be a good idea to get some grape plants, as the leaves are good for them. bannana tree leaves, fig tree leaves, mulberry tree leaves.... these are also healthy for your sully.

i'm unsure why it's taking him weeks to eat, even though my torts slow down in the winter, they still eat every day. at the very least my greek tort skips one day, but not very often. are his eyes and nose clear? no runny nose or bubbles? it looks like he's moving around in pic 7 so he's not lethargic, but have you taken him for a fecal? he may be too cold, what are his temps? my babies like a nice warm soak and a nice sit under the heat lamp in the mornings before they're ready to eat.

and make sure you have enough space for a huge heated and insulated outdoor shed if you live in colorado, since he'll be spending more of the year in a shed then outside! keep us posted, welcome to the forum!

 

[Yvonne G]

What kind of heating pad is that? A regular, human heating pad probably gets too hot to use under plastic. Last winter I used a seedling tray heater under my plastic bins and it worked just fine. It is mfg'd so as to not get above 80 degrees, and to sit under the seedling trays (plastic). Some of the under-the-tank heaters for aquariums will work ok under plastic too. But read your directions to be sure, and even then, continue to check to be sure its not getting too hot.

Your baby's habitat looks just fine to me. And he can stay in there ok until you are able to build him a better one when you move.

 

[sara]

I know the problem you are haveing with colorado weather. I live here in wyoming. I have a 3 year old Red food that i keep inside. I take him out when weather permits and we have been very lucky as we have not had any snow yet.
But even inside i was haveing a hard time keeping up the humidity and temps he requires. So i had to go out and get a small oil heater and a warm mist humidifyer. Hir room is now a sauna and he is much happier.
This is a fantastic forum and the people on here are great. they have helped me ALOT. so ask all you need to ask, even if you think its a stupid question,your new friend may really depend on it!
welcome to the forum!

 

[mckenzieg]

Thank you all so, so very much. I can't tell you how wonderful this place is!!

Rebekah & Yvonne: The heating pad is not a human one, it is a "Repti Therm Under Tank Heater" and it came with little feet that I put under the plastic tank, so I don't think it will be able to melt it, but I will watch it very often. Thank you so much for the links, Rebekah. I bought mazuri from Cory today and also bought two seed packs of the tortoise food from sulcatafood.com. I wonder if they will grown in the substrate I have, or if it will be better to plant them? I was going to do a fecal test a month ago and collected poop then, but he hasn't pooped for a while because he isn't eating, and there isn't really a local vet here. I wonder if a fecal test will be necessary? He is eating again right now, but not very much. Still, it's something. I also have cactus for him but he doesn't seem as into it. I will ween him onto it after the baby food! Thank you for saying that it looks good. I want so much to form him well!

Sara: Yes, I have just done the same and hope that when we move, we get a yard. Or some sort of outdoor something. Hell, even a huge balcony. At least for the first few years. I know he will need a real yard one of these days soon! I just turned on the humidifier. I wonder if an oil heater is also necessary? He is looking happier than he was a day ago, even, so I know this forum is saving another baby! Now if he would just eat more! I will continue to give him the warm baths and then feed--he seems much more likely to eat after having a bath.

Oh trust me, I will ask tons of questions that might seem really stupid to you guys! I simply must know

THANK YOU!!!

My temps: it's about 70 on the UVB side right now and 80 on the heater side. I JUST dug my humidifier out of storage this weekend and cleaned it, so I just turned it on. QUESTION: Should the humidifier be anywhere in particular? How long should it be run??

 

[PeanutbuttER]

I place my humidifier near the enclosures, but not in them. I'm keeping my eyes open though for a low-profile humidifier I could put into the enclosure, but haven't found one yet that seems safe enough for that. The steam they put out is pretty hot!

I let mine run all day every day, but I live in a dry climate and am keeping redfoots. How much you need to run yours will depend on where you live and how humid it is already. Play around with it and you'll figure out what you need. Make sure you have a hygrometer to read the relative humidity.

Those temps seem a little low to me for a sulcata, but someone with more sulcata experience will give you a better target to shoot for.

and... Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Kristina]

Your temps are MUCH too low. It should be 80 on the cooler side and 100+ on the warm side, with a gradient in between. That is why he is not eating and moving, he is much too cold.

The warmer side should be where your UV light is, because that is where he will bask and absorb it. What kind of bulb are you using? If it is a coil bulb, it needs to be replaced. They damage the eyes and don't give off enough UV light. The tube lights are easier on the eyes but don't put off enough UV. You should invest in a MVB (Mercury Vapor Bulb) that provides both heat and UV in one.

 

[mckenzieg]

Thank you, thank you. I got him to eat a tiny bit more baby food this morning, but not enough. He has absolutely no interest in the opuntia!! I cut it up and squished it around with a mortar and pestal, but he didn't eat it.

IS THE MERCURY VAPOR BULB AT ALL SYNONYMOUS WITH A CERAMIC HEAT EMITTER??

I think I'm going to take the heating pad back today since I don't think it's doing anything. Had the warm mist humidifier on for the last 12 hours and it hasn't changed the temperature by much, if any. Still, I will leave it on.

You really leave the humidifier on 24/7? And only turn it off to refill? How often to you sterilize it?

I have a tube UVB light. And the heating lamp, 50 watts. Does Petsmart sell the MVB does anybody know? I wish we had better reptile stores out here...

THANK YOU ALL! I need desperate help getting Charli back on his feet!

 

[Kristina]

The MVB bulbs really are nothing like a ceramic heat emitter. The emitters produce heat only, no light, and no UV light.

Petsmart does carry the MVB bulbs, but they are very expensive. You would be better off to look online for a place to buy from, as even with shipping you can get one much cheaper.

The tube lights produce some UV, but not enough to keep a tortoise healthy indefinitely. I have seen many fail under them.

Once he is warm enough, he should start to eat on his own. In the meantime keep up the warm baby food soaks so that he is getting at least some nutrition.

 

[mckenzieg]

Thank you again, Kyryah. I will purchase the MVB light immediately. Will that be enough with my UVB on as well? And the 24/7 humidifier? I have mazuri and a tortoise seed both in the mail now. I can't tell you how helpful you've been. I hadn't even heard of a MVB bulb before you mentioned it yesterday. Most websites say between 70-95 is a fine temp for these guys, but obviously he is not eating, so I needed to know this! Thank you!!!

---

Hi!!

Thank you so much for everything. Do you think a 160 watt is preferable??

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog.../fluker-sun-spot-160-watt-mercury-vapor-bulb/

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

mcKenzie

The MVB bulbs really are nothing like a ceramic heat emitter. The emitters produce heat only, no light, and no UV light.

Petsmart does carry the MVB bulbs, but they are very expensive. You would be better off to look online for a place to buy from, as even with shipping you can get one much cheaper.

The tube lights produce some UV, but not enough to keep a tortoise healthy indefinitely. I have seen many fail under them.

Once he is warm enough, he should start to eat on his own. In the meantime keep up the warm baby food soaks so that he is getting at least some nutrition.

---

Or gosh! There are a few:

100 Watt:http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDsQ8wIwAg#

70 Watt...http://www.bigappleherp.com/Sun-Force-Mercury-Vapor-Bulbs

Thanks for the help!

Thank you again, Kyryah. I will purchase the MVB light immediately. Will that be enough with my UVB on as well? And the 24/7 humidifier? I have mazuri and a tortoise seed both in the mail now. I can't tell you how helpful you've been. I hadn't even heard of a MVB bulb before you mentioned it yesterday. Most websites say between 70-95 is a fine temp for these guys, but obviously he is not eating, so I needed to know this! Thank you!!!

---

Hi!!

Thank you so much for everything. Do you think a 160 watt is preferable??

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog.../fluker-sun-spot-160-watt-mercury-vapor-bulb/

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

mcKenzie

The MVB bulbs really are nothing like a ceramic heat emitter. The emitters produce heat only, no light, and no UV light.

Petsmart does carry the MVB bulbs, but they are very expensive. You would be better off to look online for a place to buy from, as even with shipping you can get one much cheaper.

The tube lights produce some UV, but not enough to keep a tortoise healthy indefinitely. I have seen many fail under them.

Once he is warm enough, he should start to eat on his own. In the meantime keep up the warm baby food soaks so that he is getting at least some nutrition.

---

 

[Kristina]

With the MVB, you don't need a separate UVB, because the MVB is an all in one. It provides the UV and the heat.

I would get a 60 or 100 watt, and then you can just adjust the temperature in the enclosure by moving the light up or down. It should be 100-105* directly under the light, and then cooler the farther away from the light that you get, down to about 80*.

For nighttime, you should keep it around 80*. The best way to do that is with a ceramic heat emitter or a couple of plain old incandescent 60 watt black light bulbs. I get them at Walmart for $7 for two of them.

As far as care on sulcatas, visit Tom's thread. You can find it here http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies

Also visit www.africantortoise.com and www.sulcatastation.org I wouldn't listen to other websites. Those two and the forum here are your best sources of up to date information.

 

[mckenzieg]

Thanks again, Kyryah. I really appreciate this.

How do you feel about this one?: http://www.bigappleherp.com/Exo-Terra-Solar-Glo-Mercury-Vapor-Bulb-125-Watt

or

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Zoo-Med-Powersun-UV-Mercury-Vapor-Lamps?sc=2&category=20

or

http://www.bigappleherp.com/Sun-Force-Mercury-Vapor-Bulbs?sc=2&category=20

I certainly don't want to order the wrong one...

And really? Just 60 watt blacklight bulbs? So is the UVB lamp useless in the winter? And the heat lamp as well when I get the mercury?

Thank you for opening my eyes.

 

[coreyc]

you need a uvb lamp any way the CHE is just for heat

 

[mckenzieg]

But then I need a CHE AND a MVB??

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Maybe,

The MVB is the bare minimum, as it provides UVB and heat. The CHE is only for providing heat. You would only need the CHE if the MVB didn't provide enough heat (ie, you have a big tort table, etc.)

 

[mckenzieg]

I currently have a UVB and a regular heat lamp and understand that a mercury vapor lamp is my next purchase. yes?

 

[Yvonne G]

A mercury vapor lamp is the same as the UVB light. You don't need two of them. If you buy the exo terra or the zoo med light, those are mercury vapor lamps, and they emit UVB. Only one.

 

[mckenzieg]

Yvonne, i just posted this in my other feed, but since i just turned the lamp on (charli's bathing), I need pretty quick responses. Thank you so much in advance.

Thank you all for this. The only mercury vapor bulb that I could find in town yesterday is a 160 watt. SHOULD I USE THIS FOR A FEW DAYS BUT ORDER SOMETHING OF LOWER WATTAGE AND TAKE THIS BACK?? Also, big question here, CAN I USE THE MVB BULB IN THE LAMP I WAS USING WITH INFRARED: namely, http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.js...erralID=NA

Finally, do I leave the MVB on all night, or switch to infrared and a 50watt moon bulb that I bought?

THANK YOU--I took the day off work to figure this out. Your help is more than necessary and appreciated!!!

---

UPDATE: In one hour, the temps have gone up to 80 on the cold side, 90 on the hot side. My music room is HOT!!! Oh yeah, that's where he lives. When I first put him in there (I ONLY HAVE THE MVB and the humidifier ON RIGHT NOW) he ran away from the light. (This was after a baby food/calcium bath and a good misting.) He ran right over and started eating the living spring greens! He only took a few bites, but OBVIOUSLY that's a stellar improvement. A few bites is the most progress he's made in a long time. Now he is directly under the lamp and, i think, loving it.

Still--please answer the question about 160 wattage/on 24/7/should be used in this time of lamp. I don't want anything to blow!!!

THANKS!

 

[franeich]

The MVB should only be on during the day. He needs some dark to sleep. Blacklight or che at night to keep him warm.

 

[mckenzieg]

a normal blacklight = che??